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How to deal with Olimar?

megabbaut

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 15, 2011
Messages
89
Jesus Christ, all of his Pikmin conpletely block all my Thunders unless I use Thoron which takes too long to charge. He always has a way to get past my Arcfires. Since he's a small character, Arcfire fails very often and just passes above his head. Not to mention his Fsmashes cancel out anything I throw at him. Any advice against this pickle head?
 

Zareidriel

zuh-RAY-dree-ole
Joined
May 11, 2006
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Zareidriei
I actually had a COLOSSAL problem with some Olimars so I'm interested to see what people say about this. The only solution might end up being "don't be Robin" lol
 

Malechite

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 20, 2015
Messages
4
Yeah. Olimar's gay vs. Robin. It's just not even fair really... In my limited experience of playing Olimar's online (I'm playing to learn), Olimar just wrecks Robin with his stupid Pikmin blocking everything, and sometimes, maybe it's just me, but it's kind of hard to keep focused on Olimar since he's so darn short, and he camouflages really well with his pikmin...
 

Yorsh

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
110
Location
Paris
I played an Olimar online yesterday, he wasn't too great but still decent. I tried to play my Robin like I always do, with arcfire, elthunder and arcthunder, but he ***** me. I was like 120% and he was around 10%, both with 1 stock. Then I decided to hug the edge, and keep charging Thoron. I used arcfire to create a wall to protect me from his side B, and charged my neutralB. After I hit him twice with Thoron, he tried to go in, but Olimar doesn't have any tools to approach safely, so it was free punish for me each time he tried, and I won.

So what to do imo:
- Use side B to protect you while charging neutralB.
- Don't try to go in, he can't kill you with sideB, but you can kill him with Thoron, so he has to go in, not you.
- Even if you get hit by his side B, after 120% or so it doesn't matter, just keep charging neutral B. You are at kill % already, 10% more or less doesn't matter.

I hope it helps.

EDIT : Tried it against another Olimar, and it worked really well once again. Just be really carefull if he gets purple pikmins, and try to kill them asap.
 
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Splooshi Splashy

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 12, 2015
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457
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As important as getting Thoron is in this match (which it definitely is), :4olimar:/:4alph: is one of the few characters that can actually crouch, DTilt, and even Side Taunt UNDER Thoron. An Alph that is aware of this and in a position to take such actions is someone that you're going to have to catch doing a standing or aerial action (that's not blocking or properly-timed airdodging or spotdodging), including recovering, in order to reliably land Thoron. Otherwise, he'll probably DTilt towards you while Thoron's going and potentially KO you for it, especially if he's got a Purple or Red Pikmin next in line for a Smash attack. Oh, and Yellow Pikmin can survive it. As someone who plays a lot of FG Teams (followed by FG FFA, and hardly any FG 1v1 (unless it somehow happens in the FG FFA room)), catching him doing a standing or aerial action or recovering is much easier in Teams, due to having a partner that could read Alph's crouch/bait and make him stand up or be in the air long enough to land Thoron.

DTilt will get some use in this MU, due to it being one of the more reliable moves you have that can reach Alph. It's quite fast & repeatable (comes out at frame 7, ends on frame 8), making it pretty good at picking off thrown & missed Pikmin as well (even some of the ones that successfully latch on to you). If in the air, NAir is also pretty good at picking off Pikmin, since it covers a wide area around you and has very little landing lag, leading into DTilt or Jab string for more Pikmin KO-ing power.

Can Alph duck under Robin's FSmash as well? If so.... *shivers, thinking of the :4wiifit:/:4wiifitm: VS :4duckhunt: / :4pikachu: / :4gaw: MUs*

Alph's most important Pikmin in terms of surviving your moves are Red and Yellow Pikmin. Reds survive ArcFire, and Yellows survive Thunders and Levin Sword. Of those two, Red has the higher KO power. Getting rid of those two Pikmin types are gonna be tough with your moveset. While Purple is his strongest KO-ing Pikmin, as well as probably having the best defense of them all, all of your moves will damage it, much like what you can do to Blue and fragile White Pikmin.
Would spending Thunders to ward off non-Yellow Pikmin be worth it? I'm not sure. Probably not, considering how important Thoron is for piercing through them all. ArcFires would probably be worthwhile for warding off non-Red Pikmin. Rushing him down and keeping him in the air (he can't pluck up more Pikmin there!) when he's got 1 Pikmin or even none is your best bet for controlling the match, since he'll only have his Neutral A, tilts (FTilt CAN KO at 140+%, though), and NAir when he's stuck being NOlimar/NAlph. No grabs or Side B or other aerials or Smashes when he's without Pikmin. His Up B recovery, however, will take him very far at that point, and he can NAir out of it. Of course, getting to that point is going to be a challenge, especially without Customs.

With Customs on, you'll get Fire Wall and Speed Thunder. I personally adore Gliding Elwind for the horizontal on-stage movement, OoS escape option, and extra spiking chance, but default Elwind will probably be preferred. While I may prefer Goetia for its range and suction, default Nosferatu will also probably be the preferred option. Distant Nosferatu COULD be of use for this MU, but I doubt he'll be keeping his distance from you too often like :4duckhunt: (who is definitely one of Robin's worst MUs, alongside :4alph:, considering how capable he too is at warding off Fires and Thunders, and that he's also able to CRAWL under Thoron) and :4megaman: would, unless he's running Side 3 (Tackle Throw), in which case, going Down 2 could work.

With Customs on in teams, Thunder+ may be the better option, for your partner could help you charge it. Fire Wall will still be pretty good (and may be the preferred option, depending on how much Alph will try to get in your way), but ArcFire+ might have merit in this setting, as will default ArcFire, which could be the preferred option, considering the setups that both you and your partner can get out of it, provided Alph doesn't actively try to get in its way. Again, default Elwind will probably be preferred, but I'd still rock Gliding, even though the chance of spiking your teammate as the both of you are trying to get back to the stage sucks. Default Nosferatu will also likely be preferred.

Of course, Alph will get to run either 2212 or 2232 or 3312 or 1312 or 1112 or other such sets, whether in singles or teams. 2212, 2232, and 1312 will probably be among the more concerning sets, because Hardy Pikmin will be even harder to get rid of, and Sticky's damage is boosted with Hardy Pikmin (not per hit, but by length of time), should any of them actually cling on to you. Tackle Throw boosts his ability to wall you out, especially once he has you off-stage. Order Tackle, as many of us are likely aware, can make his Pikmin scary powerful if he's paired up with someone like :4fox:....

Speaking of off-stage, Alph's DAir can spike you pretty early at 60-80-ish%, especially if he does it with a Red or Purple Pikmin. He'll probably try it with a Yellow Pikmin to challenge your Levin aerials, which he'll also try for every other air battle if possible.

If they're at 90+%, you can expect Alphs to try to Down B super armor through your KO moves, as well as Up B around you after using all their jumps to position themselves to safety (including coming down at you with an aerial when you've whiffed something laggy while they're in the middle of their Up B).
If you're at 90+%, expect Alphs to try to organize their Pikmin lineup so that Purple or Red or Yellow Pikmin are at the front of the line, ready to Smash attack or BAir you. In low-ceiling stages or if you're at around 150-ish+%, Blue Pikmin may be a part of that lineup for the Up Throw.
If you're off-stage, they'll hound you to the ends of the stage with either Purple, Red, or Yellow Pikmin, due to how far their Up B can take them, especially when they have no Pikmin in line.
If the MU is still too frustrating for Robin to handle, perhaps a character switch is in order? Like :4zelda: or :4pit:/:4darkpit: or :4bowserjr: or :4duckhunt: or :4kirby: or even :4olimar:/:4alph: ?
I seriously do suggest :4zelda:, for Nayru's Love shreds Pikmin in one go, even Reggies (aka Purples). As an Alph player, Zelda's someone I don't get to use Side B against too often for that reason, which is why I tend to lose against her when I'm Alph.

If in a team setting, hopefully you're allied with one of the aforementioned characters and not someone like :4charizard: or :4myfriends: or even :4falcon: (their default Side Bs get rekt by thrown Pikmin, especially when they're trying to recover), so it'll be easier for you to focus on Alph's partner for the majority of the battle (who we hope is not someone like :4fox: or :4duckhunt: or another :4olimar:/:4alph:), while your partner focuses on Alph himself.

As for location, definitely stages with platforms like Battlefield or Smashville or Lylat Cruise. Considering the might of the Reggie Up Smash and the Blue Pikmin Up Throw, Halberd and Delfino Plaza and possibly even Town & City may NOT be advised, due to their low ceilings.
 
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Zareidriel

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...wow @ Splooshi Splashy Splooshi Splashy . Color me impressed. That's some really great and in-depth matchup advice. Thanks and bravo!

Hope you don't mind if I steal some of the broader points for some hot guide injection...
 

Splooshi Splashy

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You're very much welcome. Robin is actually one of my numerous secondaries, as are Alph, Wii Fit Trainer, Dr. Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Game & Watch.... and possibly around half of the cast or more. XD Coincidentally, they're characters that a couple people in the Online Discussion threads claim are uncommon or even rare. The way I play them, along with virtually every single character in Smash 4, is probably just as rare, for I have an aggressive rushdown style that was inspired by famous fighting game players like Alex Valle (Check out David Sirlin's Playing to Win book for his entry in The Attackers section), Justin Wong, Infiltration, among others. I use said style with even folks that are probably not meant to be played that way, like Jr, DH, and Dr. Mario.

Go ahead and take the intel from my post for that guide. I greatly appreciate people finding value in the tech contributions I make for the scene (the amount of tech I DO contribute is less frequent than I want it to be. Perhaps now that amount will increase.).

I'll make a frank observation: The current Conquest, as of this post, is probably why there's been a possibly temporary increase in Alph players lately. XD; Even though there was an Olimar player that reached 2nd place at APEX this year, the amount of such players will probably remain small. ._. Unless he gets buffs in the upcoming patch or something....

Oh, and after a little testing, Zelda's Nayru doesn't necessarily KO Purple Pikmin in one go if Neutral 1's Pikmin is used (it still shreds the other 4 Pikmin. :>), but it reflects surviving Pikmin as well, which definitely helps with handling Purples (who can also be DTilted), as well as Neutral 2's Pikmin (Note: Since its often paired with Side 2, if Neutral 2 Pikmin latch on to you, it may take 2+ Nayru's or NAirs or DTilts to shred them, which could leave a large enough opening for Alph to get in on you). Neutral 3's Pikmin definitely get shredded in one go, but it'll likely be paired with Side 3, so you'll more likely reflect the Pikmin than actually shred them.

Oh, and Robin's Jab, along with his DTilt, FTilt, Nosferatu (all 3 versions), and even FSmash, all aim low enough to hit an upclose crouching Alph. :D However, Robin's UTilt and default ArcFire will miss an upclose crouching Alph. D:
 
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StripedNinja

Smash Apprentice
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Jul 29, 2014
Messages
177
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StripedNinja
Ooh, yeah, honestly that's probably one of Oli's easiest matchup. A slow and sort of big character with tons of elements is exactly where Olimar is comfortable, I would really urge learning a counterpick honestly but Sploosh seems to have a lot of helpful tips on the matchup
 
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Daxter

Smash Journeyman
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Oct 28, 2014
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Olimar's Pikmin are a nightmare; it's like fighting a whole team of Lumas that just keep coming! I tend to hop backwards and forwards baiting out Pik-throws. Slowly but surely my Thoron becomes charged. When it does, they become quite paranoid and change to more close-quarters tactics. F-Air and U-Air work wonders on Olimar despite his small size, N-Air not so much. Once I didn't even have to fire Thoron to take the stock! On the second stock, I fired it at Olimar as he recovered, due to his semi-predictable recovery, and of course Thoron's huge range.

Also don't both with Fire-Jab. It almost always misses.
 

JosePollo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
406
Location
Las Vegas
Also don't both with Fire-Jab. It almost always misses.
This. Serioualy, when are they going to patch this? It's so annoying when you can finally get in on a character and start a jab combo but they can just spam out an aerial because of how long it takes for the third stage of the combo to come out (I'm looking at Luigi and ZSS, specifically, althought most fast fallers can pull up their shields to block jab 3, as well). The problem isn't the finisher, though; jab 2 takes too long to transition into jab 3.
 
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megabbaut

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 15, 2011
Messages
89
So is the matchup any better now that Robin has received a major buff?
 

StripedNinja

Smash Apprentice
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So is the matchup any better now that Robin has received a major buff?
I'm sure it's better in general but Robin just loses to Oli in a lot of fundamental ways. He's slow, he has a lot of elements, he can't camp against Olimar, he's pretty easy to combo. Also someone mentioned using arcfire to wall out pikmin so I just wanna point out that won't work against reds and yellows can arc around it
 
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