How to beat Samus

[Avro-Arrow]

Hey all! So I finally went to my first Smash event ever. It was at my school. I entered a tournament after playing friendlies where I went undefeated in around 16 games. During the tournament, I made round 3 (single elimination) where I played against a Samus player I had fought against before in friendlies a few times who also used Falco. Coming off of a 4 stock with my Falco, I decided it was on point so I stuck with it the first game despite having beaten this player in a Samus ditto before.

Long story short, I lost the first game because all his practice comes from Falco. I'd never played as Falco vs Samus, and so I was wondering what I should do when I play against Samuses in the future. i.e. Spacing, stage choice, finishers, how to escape comboes, DI, recovering, and comboes, or anything else you can think of.

The game only ended up being decided by one stock with him at at least 100% and me at 150%, on Battlefield. I reverted to YLink for my counterpick on Yoshi's but narrowly lost that game too. LOL should have stuck with Samus.

 

[SwiftOfDaSouth]

Falco should be able to pillar Samus across the stage and keep her where he wants her with laser > Nair approach. Also, shine reflects all her projectiles. Your kills should come off of Fsmash when edgeguarding, Dair when edgeguarding or comboing, Uari if you're feeling stylish, and Nair if you suck and she's at like 200%.

Make her whiff a grab and kick her helmet in.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Thanks for that bit of advice. I had trouble getting around the missiles tbh because his missile game was so good. I did try reflecting the missiles but most of the time they didn't hit her or I got punished with a nair. I suppose the neutral game was definitely the hardest part of the matchup for me. What stage choice would you recommend for the MU? Lol definitely not DL64, but...

 

[zFrost]

fd she can't spam missles as much since she can't use a platform to cancel and shieldrop, but yea just spam lasers in the neutral typically either bait out her moves or go in if u have a good read.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

^ I think he banned FD, otherwise I definitely would have went there. No missile shenanigans and my lasers would muddle her up pretty badly.

 

[xman]

YS is a good counter pick you can kill her off the top by using platform shine wavelanding combos. I have killed her of the top with a shine as low as 68% with one combo. Uair is also good to kill that stage has one of the lowest ceilings

 

[Avro-Arrow]

What is everyone's stage preference for the MU?

 

[krazyzyko]

FD is Samus' worst stage because she has no platforms to missile cancel nor shield drop nor save a screw attack whiff nor shark under with Uair and fair.

Here's a list where u would want to go vs her:
FD
YS
PS
BF
DL
FoD

 

[Im Fragbait]

Thanks for whoever decided to post this stuff about samus, im having trouble with the matchup myself. Can anyone find a guide to this matchup most falco guides i look at dont include samus in the matchup section.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Thanks for whoever decided to post this stuff about samus, im having trouble with the matchup myself. Can anyone find a guide to this matchup most falco guides i look at dont include samus in the matchup section.

I started this thread because I couldn't find a matchup section myself, so I thought I'd ask around.

 

[Im Fragbait]

People dont understand that this can be a differcult matchup for falco if you dont know what to do. I get beat by samus' who are not as good as me skill wise and its frustrating. I have no problem losing to people if they're better than me but most samus' i get beat by aren't. SOMEONE FIND A SAMUS GUIDE

 

[Avro-Arrow]

FD is Samus' worst stage because she has no platforms to missile cancel nor shield drop nor save a screw attack whiff nor shark under with Uair and fair.

Here's a list where u would want to go vs her:
FD
YS
PS
BF
DL
FoD

Personally, DL is the worst. I can definitely agree with FD and YS though. You, like others, know Samus sucks on FD, for the reasons you mentioned. YS is a great Falco stage too.

Yet, I feel like BF benefits Falco more than Samus in this MU (maybe), because she can't make full use of her grapple recovery, and it becomes a lot easier to edgeguard her, right (even considering her platform shenanigans and safeness of upB, it seems like a good CP to me). I'd like to hear your rationale behind this one, only so that I can learn more, because although I think it should theoretically help Falco more, it didn't quite feel that way.

I also feel like FoD is good for falco because of his pillar comboes, although samus does live for awhile on this stage.

And Pokémon Stadium: doesn't Samus get camped better than Falco? Plus, can't we use the platforms to help our recovery possibly?

^LOL I'm pretty conflicted about these three stages.

Thanks for posting, and I look forward to your feedback

 

[Avro-Arrow]

People dont understand that this can be a differcult matchup for falco if you dont know what to do. I get beat by samus' who are not as good as me skill wise and its frustrating. I have no problem losing to people if they're better than me but most samus' i get beat by aren't. SOMEONE FIND A SAMUS GUIDE

You're absolutely right, IMO. Samus takes a lot of work for Falco to get in on her. Does anyone else agree, or not?

 

[Im Fragbait]

Basically in terms of stages i see it like this.

FD - Obviously the best stage for falco in the match-up given that he has space to run from samus' projectiles while still being able to shl, he is able to pillar samus across the stage, and the stage has tons of mobility making falco Superior on this stage.

YS - Yoshi Story is amazing for falco as well, low ceiling helps falco to get easy kills on samus vertically, The cloud boosts falcos recovery options, platforms allow optimal movement for falco combos especially waveland shines. but mainly in a small blastzone stage i feel falco has the advantage because samus loses her ability to live to outrageous percents.

PS - I honestly see this stage as neutral if not slightly in falcos favor, Most of the stage changes limit samus' use of projectiles, Platforms help falco run away from samus' projectiles. Combo ability for both characters is okay. I feel like this stage is in favor of whoever can play on this stage better.

BF - Again i feel like this is a neutral stage, Falco has the advantage in combo ability, however i feel that samus being able to live up to insane percents on this stage make it close to even and then Samus' projectile game, and tether ability also helps to make it neutral.

DL- BLAST ZONES MAKE THIS STAGE HELL FOR FALCO.

FoD - SAMUS' FAVOR; Platforms mess up falcos shl and make it awkward to move around, samus being a floaty character is able to move freely in the stage's enviornment making it hard to approach samus and can use projectiles decently well on this stage. The main thing is the blast zones and the recovery. Huge blast zones make samus very very hard to kill and samus can recover with the tether very very easily making it imo the worst stage of the match-up.

 

[zFrost]

can we talk about what to do to mess up peach? i'm terrible at that mu lol

 

[Im Fragbait]

can we talk about what to do to mess up peach? i'm terrible at that mu lol

BE WEARY OF THE D-SMASH IT WILL DESTROY YOU AND MAKE YOU CRY.

I basically feel like the whole match-up with peach goes like this.

Peach is floaty which makes it difficult to combo her especially when she has the option to float in the air at basically anytime. So you probably want to be on a stage with platforms cause it will offer the most mobility and you can reach peach. Also you don't want to crouch cancel against peach cause she will wreck you if you CC. Another thing would probably be to have a very very unpredictable recovery since peach can just float off the edge casually and hit falco with a stock ending forward air. Her uptilt and dsmash also annoying when attempting to pillar.

So thats what you should look out for now on to what falco can actually do. Falco can space her out with lasers and still destroy her in the projectile game. use short hop lasering to stun her and get an opportunity to attack. Wave shining is bad unless you have a thirsty hoe called peach floating there looking for a forward-air, so if they are floating above the ground punish with a waveshine or a waveshield to shine.

I dont know much about this matchup cause its never really given me problems but i would look at Dr. PeePee or Mango VS Armada. Those should help :D

 

[Im Fragbait]

- KO vertically as much as possible. Peach has insane horizontal recovery, so either dtilt (for up) or dair or dsmash (for down). Do note that you should not attempt offstage spikes randomly, her Umbrella's priority eats through everything including Falco's dair, so try and be unpredictable.
- Spam SHL (you didn't see that on coming). She's got turnips, you've got lasers. Spam SHL so much she doesn't get time enough to pull a turnip. ^_^
- Use uair. I won't say this often, but against Peach, Falco's uair is a great aid. Because you want to KO Peach vertically, and uair is a great followup to a waveshine. If it connects correctly, you'll be surprised how fast Peach dies of it.
- Use upsmash. Falco's upsmash is oftenly underrated. Many Peaches won't see it coming when they're approaching you from above.
- Beware of downsmash. Don't ever crouchcancel it. You should know and fear Peach's downsmash. It's able to deal insane amounts of damage (dozens of it) if you CC it, so, just don't. A dsmash-spamming Peach can be extremely annoying to get around. But if you trick her into dsmashing, i's a free dair for you. Don't sidestep the dsmash, because you'll get hit when you return from the sidestep, don't roll around a Peach because you'll get dsmashed.
- Beware of dashattack. Another annoying move. Most basic Peach combo ever: throw a turnip and run in with dashattack. It pops you up for juggling and it's mad strong. So beware.
- DI right. Peach can chainthrow Falco to some amounts if you don't DI right. So remember to do so. ^_^
- Watch out for bair, nair and fair. Bair comes out fast is a high-priority sex-move. Her fair is somewhat like Doc's, it takes a while but is mad strong, and nair has great priority. If you see a Peach floating just above the ground, beware of all of these.
- Dair is another story. Combos into nair quite well and you will probably get hit by it if the Peach is floating just above your lasers.



Found this stuff hope it helps @ zFrost

 

[krazyzyko]

Personally, DL is the worst. I can definitely agree with FD and YS though. You, like others, know Samus sucks on FD, for the reasons you mentioned. YS is a great Falco stage too.

Yet, I feel like BF benefits Falco more than Samus in this MU (maybe), because she can't make full use of her grapple recovery, and it becomes a lot easier to edgeguard her, right (even considering her platform shenanigans and safeness of upB, it seems like a good CP to me). I'd like to hear your rationale behind this one, only so that I can learn more, because although I think it should theoretically help Falco more, it didn't quite feel that way.

I also feel like FoD is good for falco because of his pillar comboes, although samus does live for awhile on this stage.

And Pokémon Stadium: doesn't Samus get camped better than Falco? Plus, can't we use the platforms to help our recovery possibly?

^LOL I'm pretty conflicted about these three stages.

Thanks for posting, and I look forward to your feedback

Personally, DL is the worst. I can definitely agree with FD and YS though. You, like others, know Samus sucks on FD, for the reasons you mentioned. YS is a great Falco stage too.

Yet, I feel like BF benefits Falco more than Samus in this MU (maybe), because she can't make full use of her grapple recovery, and it becomes a lot easier to edgeguard her, right (even considering her platform shenanigans and safeness of upB, it seems like a good CP to me). I'd like to hear your rationale behind this one, only so that I can learn more, because although I think it should theoretically help Falco more, it didn't quite feel that way.

I also feel like FoD is good for falco because of his pillar comboes, although samus does live for awhile on this stage.

And Pokémon Stadium: doesn't Samus get camped better than Falco? Plus, can't we use the platforms to help our recovery possibly?

^LOL I'm pretty conflicted about these three stages.

Thanks for posting, and I look forward to your feedback

l like BF for Falco and all but the edges limit his recovery even more.

PS is good for both, because Samus can missile cancel spam and Falco has space to SHL camp. And all the transformations buff his pillar combos. Plus the low ceiling is awesome.

FoD is much better for Samus because her recovery is amazing here. Falco's shffls and shl get **** blocked by the side platz. And her the ceiling is pretty high so she can take a while to beat here.

The good part about the tri platform layouts is that you can camp on the top platform pretty good.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8iGB_5LFBAE

Anyways this doesn't matter much because Samus is going to ban FD, you're going to YS and you'll ban FoD and she'll take you to DL. (in a 2/3 set )

Thanks for the reply, l enjoy talking about cp's and MU's. Always learn something new.

 

[zFrost]

i love how u mentioned down smash twice, it's like u know i'm terrible and courch cancel it too much lmao, so what stages do u think would be best to take peach to? i was thinking yoshi's maybe?

 

[Im Fragbait]

HAHAHAHAHAHA UMM IDK xD peach is a ***** lmfao

 

[Im Fragbait]

i love how u mentioned down smash twice, it's like u know i'm terrible and courch cancel it too much lmao, so what stages do u think would be best to take peach to? i was thinking yoshi's maybe?

Sorry i was tired when i sent my last message xD and didnt feel like thinking about peach stage counters... anyways i thought about it a little bit and this is what i was thinking

YS - Falco has great combo ability in this stage, Extra recovery options, Low ceilings to kill that floaty ****, horizontal blast zones aren't that big allowing you if you need to to kill peach horizontally at moderately high percents, Falco has easy mobility, Peach's projectile game is kinda compromised on this stage. Can gimp peach with bairs off the ledge

BF - Kinda like yoshi story except falcos recovery options arent boosted, blast zones are a bit bigger, but the main focus here is that falco can spam shl and keep peach away, falcos combo ability is also really really good on bf, can gimp peach with bairs off the ledge

PS - Falco can camp with shl but peach also has a better projectile game on this stage when its not in FD form, Horizontal blast zones make this a ***** for falco, Stage provides multiple opportunities to gimp peach on the ceiling based on stage changes (Windmill, Tower, Mountain) I would say this stage is more neutral than anything.

FoD - PEACH'S FAVOR annoying platforms mess up shl which is a huge part of the matchup, horizontal blast zones are decently big making it hard for falco to kill. With the lack of shl peach is able to pull out turnips whenever.

FD - PEACH'S FAVOR ... BLAST ZONES ... NUFF SAID

DL- PEACH'S FAVOR ... BLAST ZONES ... NUFF SAID

This matchup i feel mainly comes down to a few things, Falco's ability to shl, Falco's Ablity to recover, Blast Zones, and Falcos mobility and combo ability. playing a peach that knows what they're doing will make you cry. I have to admit i cried a little on the inside when thinking about this match-up

 

[Avro-Arrow]

l like BF for Falco and all but the edges limit his recovery even more.

PS is good for both, because Samus can missile cancel spam and Falco has space to SHL camp. And all the transformations buff his pillar combos. Plus the low ceiling is awesome.

FoD is much better for Samus because her recovery is amazing here. Falco's shffls and shl get **** blocked by the side platz. And her the ceiling is pretty high so she can take a while to beat here.

The good part about the tri platform layouts is that you can camp on the top platform pretty good.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8iGB_5LFBAE

Anyways this doesn't matter much because Samus is going to ban FD, you're going to YS and you'll ban FoD and she'll take you to DL. (in a 2/3 set )

Thanks for the reply, l enjoy talking about cp's and MU's. Always learn something new.

OK, thanks for the description; now I see why FoD sucks. I watch gameplay to learn because I only have one training partner, and the commentary (on a match between Westballz and Plup maybe?) said they didn't agree with Samus' CP because they felt it was a better stage for Falco than for Samus. They said the platforms help his pillars, and that when it goes to "FD mode" Falco destroys her (which is my favourite transformation of the stage for Falco anyways). But it's true; I play Samus as well and she just does great there, zoning out opponents with ftilts and utilts, her dair > bair, and her nair. So I can see your point.

Anyways, this revises my stage preference:

FD
PS/YS, because I have an affinity for flat stages and YS is just good for Falco.
BF
FoD
DL

Only because I'd just switch characters if they CP'd DL anyways. I have a Young Link, who outcamps her, so whatev .

 

[Avro-Arrow]

@ zFrost @ Im Fragbait

You guys have a good conversation going on about Peach, however, I don't want this thread to go off topic and die. Honestly, I'd like to talk about all MUs, but this thread is about Samus, a matchup that seems to take a lot of work for Falco to win, and one that other seasoned players at my event couldn't tell me about ("just spam lasers, that's all it comes down to," which you could argue is how Falco deals with a lot of people).

I feel kind of awkward about posting this but, could you please talk about Samus then? :/

 

[Im Fragbait]

@ zFrost @ Im Fragbait

You guys have a good conversation going on about Peach, however, I don't want this thread to go off topic and die. Honestly, I'd like to talk about all MUs, but this thread is about Samus, a matchup that seems to take a lot of work for Falco to win, and one that other seasoned players at my event couldn't tell me about ("just spam lasers, that's all it comes down to," which you could argue is how Falco deals with a lot of people).

I feel kind of awkward about posting this but, could you please talk about Samus then? :/

Yes sorry man i get off on tangents a lot i still am up for talking about the samus matchup and ill try to keep it more samus related from here on out :D @ zFrost if you wanna talk more about the peach matchup tag me in another thread :D

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Yes sorry man i get off on tangents a lot i still am up for talking about the samus matchup and ill try to keep it more samus related from here on out :D @ zFrost if you wanna talk more about the peach matchup tag me in another thread :D

Or start a peach MU thread. The problem with most threads like "Falco MU Thread" or "MU Chart" is that nobody sticks to the same subject, people flame, then it dies and nobody cares. But a lot of people would be interested in a Peach Thread.