How to beat a good snake

[Prophesized]

I'm testing around with characters, and one's I'm rather fond of are Yoshi, Bowser, Donkey Kong and Pit, but I seem to be having trouble with MK and Snake. Such as when Snake dash attacks you and then ftilt or A combos you before you have the chance to counterattack. What should I look out for and how could I possibly counter them?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Everyone has trouble with Snake and Metaknight. It's not just you. Every character board has at least one thread dedicated to these characters so I'd suggest looking there first. Also, if you're really determined to beat Snake, I'd suggest looking into some of his counters: Ice Climbers, King Dedede, Wolf (I don't know why but a lot of people suggest him for some reason...), Falco, and Pikachu.

 

[Prophesized]

alright, thanks. I'll be probably seeing how pikachu does against him.

 

[A2ZOMG]

ICs can Ice block camp and CG Snake to death.

DDD can outrange Snake, and CG him into an easy ledgeguard.

Wolf can blaster camp Snake and D-throw him into an easy ledgeguard.

 

[JiangWei23]

*raises hand* Question! I just wanted the opinion of the Snake boards on this, but out of ROB, Falco, and Toon Link, which one do you have the most trouble with? I've been playing around with Snake and have been told these are some of his bad matchups and wanted to see what could be done.

 

[gallax]

as for the pikachu vs. snake matchup it is very controversial who has the advantage. if the snake knows the matchup then it becomes a 50/50 fight.

 

[OverLade]

Somehow, M2K's Metaknight has no trouble with snakes. I'm still looking into how he consistently wins, but from what I've seen, to edguard snake, use a Nair wall of pain, since the strong part of Nair breaks through snakes UpB super armor. Finish him off with an Up B, and conveniently, MK will collide with the cypher, saving you from a gruesome offstage death, allowing you to go back to the stage. Otherwise...

Dedede is the only matchup that's actually sort of easy to win with. I'm experimenting with Falco by outcamping snake with Shlasers, and chaingrabs. Still, at lower percents, Falcos chaingrab to spike wont kill snake. >_>

 

[samdaballer]

Somehow, M2K's Metaknight has no trouble with snakes. I'm still looking into how he consistently wins, but from what I've seen, to edguard snake, use a Nair wall of pain, since the strong part of Nair breaks through snakes UpB super armor. Finish him off with an Up B, and conveniently, MK will collide with the cypher, saving you from a gruesome offstage death, allowing you to go back to the stage. Otherwise...

videos of m2k's meta vs. a snake?

 

[Justaway]

ya that's what Im thinking, I hear people talking about m2k's MK saying it's good, but I've only seen those old vids with him azen and some 2v2s.

 

[samdaballer]

ya that's what Im thinking, I hear people talking about m2k's MK saying it's good, but I've only seen those old vids with him azen and some 2v2s.

no, he is very good, and the best mk by far, it's just that I haven't seen him play a snake

 

[OverLade]

videos of m2k's meta vs. a snake?

he
God, I wish. Nobody was recording, but it was amazing. Somehow, he approached snake with minimal punishment, and once he got him to t edge of the stage, it was over for Snake. Eventually one will turn up lol.

 

[Sinz]

he
God, I wish. Nobody was recording, but it was amazing. Somehow, he approached snake with minimal punishment, and once he got him to t edge of the stage, it was over for Snake. Eventually one will turn up lol.

Nobody was recording because M2k doesn't let them record.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Nobody was recording because M2k doesn't let them record.

For reals?

 

[samdaballer]

For reals?

yeah apparently, he doesn't want anybody to copy his style, i dont blame him either

 

[-Ran]

I suppose M2k realizes you can't count on the technical skill limitations of the masses to guard your play style in Brawl.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i guess so...

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

ICs can Ice block camp and CG Snake to death.

DDD can outrange Snake, and CG him into an easy ledgeguard.

Wolf can blaster camp Snake and D-throw him into an easy ledgeguard.

Counterpoints:
IC are at a disadvantage because Snake can mash b repeatedly to pull out a grenade and break the chain. Also, they can't afford any mistakes against Snake and they have to work hard to approach him without eating f tilt. Also, Snake is a character that can severly punish them if the IC player's reflexes don't compensate for the partner. If they don't, Snake can use his f smash to KO the partner quickly.

Snake can mash the b button to escape DDD's CG too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_hNtmwlX3U

 

[gallax]

i watched m2k own the ebst florida brawl player(who mains snake) and completely owned him. his edgeguardgin with MK is so ridiculous that i couldn't believe how pathetic our guy looked against him.

 

[chon3]

i play a pretty mean dedede and i still have problems with snake. once bombs and mortars start showering it feels impossible for dedede to get out of the combo, and snake can fly over me if i try to edgeguard. also, chaingrab cannot be performed against a well-played snake.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Counterpoints:
IC are at a disadvantage because Snake can mash b repeatedly to pull out a grenade and break the chain. Also, they can't afford any mistakes against Snake and they have to work hard to approach him without eating f tilt. Also, Snake is a character that can severly punish them if the IC player's reflexes don't compensate for the partner. If they don't, Snake can use his f smash to KO the partner quickly.

Snake can mash the b button to escape DDD's CG too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_hNtmwlX3U

It's not the chaingrab that necessarily ***** him. It's what results from the throw.

Falco and DDD's D-throws make Snake completely helpless if they throw him off the ledge.

 

[OverLade]

i watched m2k own the ebst florida brawl player(who mains snake) and completely owned him. his edgeguardgin with MK is so ridiculous that i couldn't believe how pathetic our guy looked against him.

Vs. Afro thundah? Yes, I was watching too. The Nair Wall of pain. The most innovative way I've seen to edguard snake, but most obvious. Nair is the only move that penetrates Snakes super armor other than MK's UpB. He then used an UpB to finish snake and the cypher saves MK from dying by flying off the edge.

 

[samdaballer]

Vs. Afro thundah? Yes, I was watching too. The Nair Wall of pain. The most innovative way I've seen to edguard snake, but most obvious. Nair is the only move that penetrates Snakes super armor other than MK's UpB. He then used an UpB to finish snake and the cypher saves MK from dying by flying off the edge.

my god, i'd kill for some videos

 

[OverLade]

my god, i'd kill for some videos

I would kill to have actually paid more attention. And @ A2ZOMG snake isn't THAT helpless off the edge. A smart player will simply fall back a good distance and jump back up to the edge. Sanke's UpB is definelty gimpable, but not as easy to gimp as many people say. Smart snake players avoid getting into a position to be gimped, and if they end up off the edge, they use Up B to fly OVER the stage out of range.

Oh, and the chances of Wolf even grabbing a good snake are VERY slim.

 

[g-regulate]

im the only good snake so... impossible

 

[TwinkleToes]

Vs. Afro thundah? Yes, I was watching too. The Nair Wall of pain. The most innovative way I've seen to edguard snake, but most obvious. Nair is the only move that penetrates Snakes super armor other than MK's UpB. He then used an UpB to finish snake and the cypher saves MK from dying by flying off the edge.

I wish you would stop calling it super armor... Seeing as all sorts of attacks can break it, it's heavy armor.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Wolf: Can outcamp Snake. Outranges Snake. Can poke more safely with spaced fair/bair. Can punish Snake's tilts and jab on block more easily than most of the cast.

 

[da K.I.D.]

wolf down smash= MK down smash with more range more power and 2 miliseconds more lag

 

[OverLade]

I wish you would stop calling it super armor... Seeing as all sorts of attacks can break it, it's heavy armor.

>_> You're right my bad. Apparently anything that does more than 7% breaks it, but most characters don't have good aerials to Gimp snake (multi hit attacks, or laggy spikes).

Wolf doesn't beat snake, watch the Germ vs. DSF matches.

 

[megamanexev3]

I've only had my Snake beaten by (yes, you're hearing me right. I can't believe it too): Ness and Dedede. The guy who uses Ness though is pretty darn good though, he's just epicly pro with his PK Thunder. He goes by the name of Colin, you can find him at Shoddy Battle (PKMN sim). He's a bit of a prick though and will whine about anything, mainly lag and broken matchups, even if you have a green connection rating.

Ness's yo-yo can stop mortar slides as it's got a disjointed hitbox. DeDeDe outranges, has nice chaingrab.

Also, Redhalberd, Multi Hit attacks will NOT break the cypher armor. An attack with a SINGLE HITBOX that deals more than 7 damage will knock Snake off his cypher.

 

[OverLade]

Also, Redhalberd, Multi Hit attacks will NOT break the cypher armor. An attack with a SINGLE HITBOX that deals more than 7 damage will knock Snake off his cypher.

I know, that's what I was saying, that's why its impractical for most characters to gimp snake.

 

[LP4Life666]

You want to know how to beat a good Snake? Let's start with dropping Bowser.

 

[megamanexev3]

Har har har, LP4Life666 is correct. Bowser is easily hit with all of Snake's tilts, especially his U-Tilt. A good Snake could easily land 3 U-Tilts, then a fullhopped nair, then through some mindgames, land an F-Smash.

 

[Turbo Ether]

>_> You're right my bad. Apparently anything that does more than 7% breaks it, but most characters don't have good aerials to Gimp snake (multi hit attacks, or laggy spikes).

Wolf doesn't beat snake, watch the Germ vs. DSF matches.

Those Germ vs DSF matches are old as hell.

 

[OverLade]

Those Germ vs DSF matches are old as hell.

Old yes, but both of them do a pretty good job of representing their character. I'd personally like to see an update to the match up, but that's the best vid we've gotten so far. And Germ never won. >_> Aside from those, I've never beaten a Snake with wolf and my wolf isn't too bad. Predictable approaches make wolf easy to outcamp, and Snakedashing still has more range then Wolfs projectiles or Fsmash. And wolf is heavy, so the horizontal knockback from Ftilts puts him in a bad position. I wouldn't call it a bad match up, but I WOULDN'T say Wolf beats Snake.

Falco does much better.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Old yes, but both of them do a pretty good job of representing their character. I'd personally like to see an update to the match up, but that's the best vid we've gotten so far. And Germ never won. >_> Aside from those, I've never beaten a Snake with wolf and my wolf isn't too bad. Predictable approaches make wolf easy to outcamp, and Snakedashing still has more range then Wolfs projectiles or Fsmash. And wolf is heavy, so the horizontal knockback from Ftilts puts him in a bad position. I wouldn't call it a bad match up, but I WOULDN'T say Wolf beats Snake.

Falco does much better.

What's your FC? I would like to work on these matchups, since I play all three of these characters.

 

[OverLade]

What's your FC? I would like to work on these matchups, since I play all three of these characters.

I dont use Snake. >_>

 

[null55]

I'm testing around with characters, and one's I'm rather fond of are Yoshi, Bowser, Donkey Kong and Pit, but I seem to be having trouble with MK and Snake. Such as when Snake dash attacks you and then ftilt or A combos you before you have the chance to counterattack. What should I look out for and how could I possibly counter them?

Thanks in advance.

A good Donkey Kong does well against both of those characters. Your problem is solved.

 

[Paul Cesar]

I main Snake and in my opinion, the best Snake counter is Olimar, without a doubt.

 

[Rawrness]

How about Toon Link. It'sc ontroversial who wins the camp game and TL can bair **** Snake to hell and back.

 

[_Phloat_]

How about Toon Link. It'sc ontroversial who wins the camp game and TL can bair **** Snake to hell and back.

Would be an easy matchup, but TL can't freakin kill anything =[