How not to lose(a terse and incomplete guide to your character)

[Zigsta]

If Wario wasn't so good at playing gay, I wouldn't have picked him up as a secondary for Bowser.

Annoying my Bowser's shield?

GET TIMED OUT.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

If you throw a tire at someone without moving towards them substantially at the same time, they will easily have enough time to respond to your next move. Whether they shield or grab it. Moving away from someone and then tossing it, like glide tossing backwards, gives them even more time to react. You will not be able to put on any more pressure even if the tire hits. It's mostly for moments where you are too far away to punish something safe by nearly most standards.

I'm not saying glide toss throw it at them. Glide toss throw the tire down and go away from them so that the tire bounces.


@Zigsta I thought bowser just fortress whenever someone touched their sheild.

 

[Zigsta]

@Zigsta I thought bowser just fortress whenever someone touched their sheild.

For the most part, yeah.

But if someone's pressuring Bowser's shield with projectiles from afar, I'm more likely to go Wario to deal with their projectiles easier.

 

[TheOgbot]

Thanks for the ideas on jumping OoS and stuff. I think I'll be a bigger problem to people with this subtle yet extremely useful advice :D

 

[ssbbFICTION]

@ogbot - glad you think its useful

@ AL - as much as I wish it was true, wario cannot be played algorithmically (sp?). He is strictly a reading and watching character. Just know that its bad to be caught in your shield.

 

[SnackAttack]

Great guide.

I love the title and the inclusion of the word "terse" .

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

@ogbot - glad you think its useful

@ AL - as much as I wish it was true, wario cannot be played algorithmically (sp?). He is strictly a reading and watching character. Just know that its bad to be caught in your shield.

I understand that avout Wario. Iwanted to see if he had any other options. I dislike the word you used and don't know what it means it makes me angry.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Its not in a cut and dry step by step process.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Its not in a cut and dry step by step process.

That's what that word means ?

 

[DMG]

he means there's not a formula/step by step process for playing Wario. You can't make a list like

1: Pick Wario
2. Proceed to Dair when opponent is close
3. Move around a tad to make them nervous, and then fart on them
4. Fsmash is only good when they are airdodging to the ground. Save it for that

etc.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

he means there's not a formula/step by step process for playing Wario. You can't make a list like

1: Pick Wario
2. Proceed to Dair when opponent is close
3. Move around a tad to make them nervous, and then fart on them
4. Fsmash is only good when they are airdodging to the ground. Save it for that

etc.

Na, I understand that I was just trying to see which of Wario's OOS option we're preferred. I understand spacing character / move they hit my shield with is all important. However, based on what fiction said Jump away would be a pretty bad option while a shield grab would be your preferred option. Not to say that shield grab will always be your best options because like I said depending on character/ spacing/move they used. So even though I'm trying to rank which options would be best it all depends on the character/spacing/move they used. Because I've shield grabbed MK's dsmash before and also whiffed the grab and been punished for it. I believe the factors depend on spacing/move used/ character.

 

[A2ZOMG]

When I read the point about not forcing kills and only going for fart KOs when you know they will happen, it reminded me of something.

I just thought I'd point out, if you're using U-air for straightforward juggling and platform pressure against most characters, you're probably using it wrong (unless your opponent fails at angling shield). My question is how many people are aware of this?

There's a lot of low level Wario players who seem to try forcing it for the sake of hitting above them when it's rarely the optimal option partly due to how telegraphed it is for that purpose. U-air's air cooldown doesn't really leave it much room to create amazing bait situations (unless your opponent is Ganon basically), so generally, most of the U-airs that I see work are best used in ground punish situations.

/random thoughts

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

When I read the point about not forcing kills and only going for fart KOs when you know they will happen, it reminded me of something.

I just thought I'd point out, if you're using U-air for straightforward juggling and platform pressure against most characters, you're probably using it wrong (unless your opponent fails at angling shield). My question is how many people are aware of this?

There's a lot of low level Wario players who seem to try forcing it for the sake of hitting above them when it's rarely the optimal option partly due to how telegraphed it is for that purpose. U-air's air cooldown doesn't really leave it much room to create amazing bait situations (unless your opponent is Ganon basically), so generally, most of the U-airs that I see work are best used in ground punish situations.

/random thoughts

What I don't understand anything you've said.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Most of the U-airs from Wario that I see actually connect are usually against grounded opponents. However I see a good number of low level Wario users who try to juggle with it or platform pressure with it, which I believe is telegraphed and a suboptimal decision.

Fiction's original post stresses never forcing anything, especially kills. Using U-air to hit people above you for the most part is generally forcing it, since it's generally unexceptional at baiting airdodges. Concerning platform pressure, it doesn't really shield stab particularly well either.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Most of the U-airs from Wario that I see actually connect are usually against grounded opponents. However I see a good number of low level Wario users who try to juggle with it or platform pressure with it, which I believe is telegraphed and a suboptimal decision.

Fiction's original post stresses never forcing anything, especially kills. Using U-air to hit people above you for the most part is generally forcing it, since it's generally unexceptional at baiting airdodges. Concerning platform pressure, it doesn't really shield stab particularly well either.

Ah I see what you're saying now.

 

[DMG]

You have to play the guessing game like everyone else on whether they will airdodge or attack or jump away/do something else. His Uair is a fine move, even when used in situations like that. Concerning platforms, Uair is usually the #1 choice for a move because everything else can get punished pretty hard. Quick surprise rising bite? If they get out of the way, you are boned. Fart? Psh if they shield or spotdodge it I will laugh. Uair? Safe regardless of whether you hit or miss. Not only that, but on shields a lot of times the knockback is quite strong and will push them either completely off or closer to the edge of the platform, putting more pressure on them to react to the further complications that will arise.

The cd is pretty big, but it's the same for other people with strong Uairs like Marth. Its not a big deal

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[DMG]

Uair accomplishes pressure unless they spotdodge and you Uair late. If you do it early and they spotdodge, the position basically resets. If you hit their shield, it depends on where they are positioned and where you hit it. Uair is the safest choice in those positions and also the strongest overall. There are more win win situations from Uair than his other choices, especially if they fail to connect period

 

[Pwneroni]

On the subject of out of shield options...

Fair oos (punishes MK's fair on your shield, many other things too), really good poke and discourages MK fair spam

Nair oos (punishes MK's nair on your shield, many many other things too), leads into small combos, grabs etc.

You don't need to play Wario defensively "only" to win. He can be aggressive, you just have to know your options and limitations. Don't just dive in guns blazing, you will get owned or even worse, grabbed 0,o Play defensively, then when you see an opening... strike like a lightning bolt BAM! POW! THWACK! Right in the kisser!

 

[A2ZOMG]

For juggles, Wario has more consistent options and frame traps if the purpose is damage, since his U-air doesn't linger.

The point for U-air platform pressure is legit, but I would consider waiting and reading/reacting the superior option, since Wario's frame traps under platforms aren't spectacular.

But I guess the bottom line anyway from Fiction is that Wario is meant to watch his opponent and play to be opportunistic. At any rate I felt it was particularly relevant to the use of U-air, since I don't think most people really get hit by it if you're just using it when you're below them. Safety can be argued here and there, but there's better options for landing hits on an opponent above you besides throwing out U-airs, which I think low level Wario users force too much.

 

[Lord Chair]

Wario's platform pressure is actually rather flexible.

Fair does not discourage MK's fair walling.

 

[DMG]

On the subject of out of shield options...

Fair oos (punishes MK's fair on your shield, many other things too), really good poke and discourages MK fair spam

Nair oos (punishes MK's nair on your shield, many many other things too), leads into small combos, grabs etc.

You don't need to play Wario defensively "only" to win. He can be aggressive, you just have to know your options and limitations. Don't just dive in guns blazing, you will get owned or even worse, grabbed 0,o Play defensively, then when you see an opening... strike like a lightning bolt BAM! POW! THWACK! Right in the kisser!

Fair OOS only punishes it if they space it bad/do not FF. MK when using Fair the right way is not punishable by Wario with anything.

Nair OOS it solely depends on where MK is, and what parts of Nair he hits with. You cannot Nair OOS and nab him before the second hit comes by. If he hits with only the first part, and is moving away from you, you can punish him with more than Nair OOS. Same if he hits with both parts on shield, you have to wait after both hits though.

For juggles, Wario has more consistent options and frame traps if the purpose is damage, since his U-air doesn't linger.

The point for U-air platform pressure is legit, but I would consider waiting and reading/reacting the superior option, since Wario's frame traps under platforms aren't spectacular.

But I guess the bottom line anyway from Fiction is that Wario is meant to watch his opponent and play to be opportunistic. At any rate I felt it was particularly relevant to the use of U-air, since I don't think most people really get hit by it if you're just using it when you're below them. Safety can be argued here and there, but there's better options for landing hits on an opponent above you besides throwing out U-airs, which I think low level Wario users force too much.

Wario's lingering hitboxes are bad moves to trap people with concerning juggles. Dair/Nair for example Dair is easily SDiable and Nair is weak and won't truly lead to much if you are juggle trapping with it. His Uair is the most reliable consistent threat to someone because it is the attack he threatens most upwards with. It's like saying Marth's Nair is what people try to dodge because occasionally when he looks like he's gonna SH fair (the obvious threat) he happens to do a Nair instead.

There are not overall better options for landing hits on an opponent above you compared to Uair. Sure, they may force Uairs too much, but it's still easily his best tool in most situations like that. Name 1 attack, 1 singe attack, that is a consistent juggle threat to someone above Wario (rules out farts), that does the same damage guaranteed on hit (rules out Dair completely), that also lets you keep your horizontal mobility (rules out Bite), that also comes out that fast and strikes upwards near the same distance that Uair does.


HMM nothing fits the description of something that is better than Uair for those spots, I wonder why? Because there isn't anything better than Uair in the big picture concerning those overall scenarios. Sure, maybe you can find better options in very specific situations with the context laid out and you option select. But overall, hell no Uair all the way SON.

 

[Lord Chair]

...son.

SON.

10sons.

 

[Pwneroni]

I've tested it multiple times in frame-by-frame slow motion. It works, even when MK hits your shield with the very tip of the fair. It's been a while so I forget the exact frame data, but I think you have like a 2 frame window to do it. I've done it in tournament.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I still don't believe you

 

[DMG]

Nope

Framewise you aren't supposed to be able to. 7 frame jump, then Fair coming out assuming you frame perfect. It's too slow, trust me maaaayne

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[DMG]

Framewise, you can hit them if you're frame perfect and they don't FF or space correctly. Assuming that I calculated it right last time I checked

Indeed

MK bad Fair = yes punish, frame perfect for Wario or otherwise

MK good Fair = no punish at all, frame perfect on Wario's side or otherwise

 

[ssbbFICTION]

if you can SH fair out of shield it you could have much more easily shield-grabbed it.

 

[DMG]

It depends. The Fairs you can punish it's if they are near max Fair range and retreating. Shield grab won't reach that far, but his body will drag far enough with the Fair. The closer ones hell yeah you can shield grab super easy, but the far away ones that are sloppy out of grab range you can barely nab with Fair (only the weak hit mind you, which is like 4% and doesn't give you a great position on him)

 

[Shift]

I'm just eating this information up! Keep it coming!

 

[Peach Masta]

The fair works under the right conditions, which are as follows:

A. Can be perfectly tippered
2. If I remember correctly, the third hit of the fair has to hit your shield.

A couple frames of shield stun, like 6 frames shield drop with jump cancel, and like what, Wario's fair hits on frame 5. I got witnesses.

-pwneroni

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I still don't believe you

 

[Juno McGrath]

AL:

Why whine and ***** about NY/NJ when you don't even attend tournaments.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.


also, had a chance to test some of this out.

Little changes go soooo far.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Hurray I helped people

 

[Juno McGrath]

so start posting more helpful stuff shepard.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

never cuz u spelled my name wrong

 

[Juno McGrath]

Shephard


Guhhh.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

too late! no advice ever >:D

 

[DMG]

Advice: Don't misspell Fiction's name

Darn, was a few hours late