How is Villager's meta playing out?

[gbaespada]

Hey this is gbaespada who is planning to main the villager in this upcoming super smash brothers game for the 3ds/WiiU in the competitive scene but here's a question do you think he/she stands a chance top-mid tier?

In my opinion the villager seems to be a zoning oriented character who counters most projectile users like Link and samus.The villager also has a great amount of versatility at his disposal like his slingshot that can keep close range fighters like Marth and bowser away.His/her pocket standard special can put away projectiles for later use.

Please tell me/ the community what y our thoughts are on the villagers competitive viability!

Also if you need me to post the villagers moveset for reference also tell me

 

[mario123007]

I think he could be on the mid-tier, he got some many amazing attacks, but how strong he really is is too hard to tell.

 

[Narth]

I think he has pretty big potential. I can see him being a high tier just because he's a pretty outlandish character for the smash series, and they'd want people to notice him and actually use him. His move set looks awesome, also!

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

I think every character has a chance for top tier until proven otherwise really. If they do their job really well there won't be a low tier or high tier. EVERYONE WILL BE VIABLE AND IT WILL BE AMAZING.

 

[Captain Norris]

I think every character has a chance for top tier until proven otherwise really. If they do their job really well there won't be a low tier or high tier. EVERYONE WILL BE VIABLE AND IT WILL BE AMAZING.

If everything works out, there will still be low and high tiers like always. However, the tiers will be extremely close together, making most character viable.

 

[Anomalous Adam]

You know, it's pretty biased to have a poll asking if villager will be top or mid tier in the villager character forum lol. A better poll question would be to ask where you think he will fall in tier.

 

[SamSun]

It's hard to say this early on, y'know, with the game not being out in the US yet.

However, I think that Villager is definitely strong, and even though it's early, many high level players are playing him totally wrong in my opinion. I think it's going to be a long time before Villager gets any sort of substantial meta-development.

Who knows, maybe my plans will go smoothly, and you guys will see me as a top level Villager main not too long from now

 

[Jezo]

I feel too many of his moves are too laggy to make him top tier material. His fairs and bairs are like Falco lasers at best on ground, and the lag after is too much to really be used in that way if you whiff. His lloyd, pocket, nair and dair are his best moves, imo. His smashes are rather lackluster, too slow, etc. I'm sure he'll work well in doubles though.

 

[extremechiton]

just playing the demo i mostly use nair, dair, upair, ftilt (ftilt is amazing) dtilt, uptilt, lloid rocket, and sometimes tree (but its very situaitonal)

i find his f smash slow and has no range whatsoever, however it is most usefull as an edgeguarding tool as it drops strait down and is a projectile.

his upsmash combos into itself at lower percents can can be used as an anti air, but it is lackluster.

his dsmash has very little range and the cpus instantly mash out of it even at higher percents.
and since it buries people i thought i could use it as a meteor smash at the edge, but that doesnt work.

the lloid rocket you can use as a shield sometimes and to cover yourself but it is a really slow projectile. riding it, has one of the longest horizontal recoveries in the game if using it at full speed.

i mostly use bairs and fairs off stage to chase and edge guard, but since it is very linear and extremely small, it can be hard to hit with.

the turnips are really good, especially the 3. they have a lingering hitbox so as long as they are out, they will do damage. up air can be used as an anti air since it has decent prioriy, and dair can be used to edgegaurd. it may be easier to chase off stage with dair since its hitbox lingers longer than fairs and bairs, so if you wiff, you may still hit them at the end of the animation.

pocket has a special property where he gains intangibility frames (even when wiffing) while doing the move and has a freakin large grab box the even covers behind him. you can pocket just about anything that is a projectile or item.

now.... for the tree. the tree is AWSOME!! after planting it, watering it makes it grow and when it grows, it has a hitbox, if timed right, this is a powerful anti air. it also blocks projectiles. and chopping it down is the fun part. when planted near the edge, anyone recovering from below is a gonner.

(wow this is lengthier than i wanted it to be)

villager may not be viable as top tier, but his disjoints and off stage game will be a major part of his meta game. i can see him as a major support character in doubles.

 

[ToastMiller]

villager doubles can make a simple Fsmash a OHKO by pocketing and repocketing.
Edit: an fsmash that falls

 

[Prince Lolz]

Its pretty much up to the players. It seems like everyone is on even, or nearly even ground this time around. So if nobody plays him he will be considered low tier, but later on somebody could get really good and he could pull an olimar.

 

[Soshii]

From watching days worth of streams and playing the demo a ridiculous amount, I think Villager will be mid-high tier tops, being optimistic. Even though his moveset is pretty interesting, most of his attacks are very predictable, his grab is fairly slow, and alot of his moves are out-prioritized (by Mario atleast). Once the meta develops, the tree won't be much of a threat and Villager's fsmash and usmash will be even tougher to land when players can predict them even harder. I think counter-picks for Villager will be combo-oriented characters like Falcon and Little Mac who won't let him get any breathing room. It's also REALLY hard to finish with Villager in my opinion. Most kills I get are from chasing off the edge with slingshot and getting lucky with 3-turnip dairs.

EDIT: So I take back what I said about Little Mac. Counterpicks will be combo-oriented characters that can actually recover.

 

[Noa.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6INKsSFrhyo&feature=youtu.be

This video shows off some good Villager action in a tournament. The way he plays village is interesting.

 

[Plummn]

I know he's primarily keep away and some big set up hits. I want to know more to get better at the demo. Any good videos? I just saw a losers bracket for a Tourney Locator event, and the villager (a player named Pwner) camped the whole game.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

All I know is that the big impractical move I saw in the Villager trailer, the tree, has a lot of interesting uses actually.

 

[SevenYearItch]

Camp, use trees, POCKET EVERYTHING YOU CAN

 

[Ganreizu]

I just saw a losers bracket for a Tourney Locator event, and the villager (a player named Pwner) camped the whole game.

I wouldn't say he's an example of "forefront of the meta". He has a ways to go as a player.

 

[ChillySundance]

Villager is odd. He has very little in the way of reliable setups for actual combos at any percent. His down throw does not reliably combo into side airs as the hit stun is very low and opponents can just air dodge before he has a chance to land any follow up.

He can chain two up smashes into each other on a fresh opponent (0% to maybe 15%?) and then follow up with an up air. That's his most damaging practical combo at low % that's reliable, but landing a raw up smash on a standing opponent is hard unless you're using it OOS against something slow.

One thing I like to do is plant his sapling and grow the tree, then use the axe as a quick punishing attack. It's one of his fastest moves and opens up better options for punishing than his slow grab against most characters.

his down smash needs to be charged to offer any kind of benefit. You can combo it into the axe at around 80%, but the opponent can wiggle out of a non charged variant extremily easily and followup into bowling ball is not guaranteed until the enemy is at around 120-130%.

his up tilt has more KO power than his up smash but is weird and hard to land. at low % the opponent can even interrupt it between hits, which is bizarre.

down tilt has some of the most hit stun out of all his moves, but sends the enemy too high to reliably follow with anything.

basically, I think he camps because his punish game is not all that great.

 

[Plummn]

I want his meta **** to improve. He's really interesting and fun to use. I'm liking him over the other characters in the demo.

 

[KAB1]

I make heavy use of Lloid. It's a good projectile. Maybe that's why villager is campy.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

I make heavy use of Lloid. It's a good projectile. Maybe that's why villager is campy.

It's OK but its start-up is just a little too slow for my tastes. I think it has more value as a recovery move.

 

[ZangooseQTR]

Villager is odd. He has very little in the way of reliable setups for actual combos at any percent. His down throw does not reliably combo into side airs as the hit stun is very low and opponents can just air dodge before he has a chance to land any follow up.

He can chain two up smashes into each other on a fresh opponent (0% to maybe 15%?) and then follow up with an up air. That's his most damaging practical combo at low % that's reliable, but landing a raw up smash on a standing opponent is hard unless you're using it OOS against something slow.

One thing I like to do is plant his sapling and grow the tree, then use the axe as a quick punishing attack. It's one of his fastest moves and opens up better options for punishing than his slow grab against most characters.

his down smash needs to be charged to offer any kind of benefit. You can combo it into the axe at around 80%, but the opponent can wiggle out of a non charged variant extremily easily and followup into bowling ball is not guaranteed until the enemy is at around 120-130%.

his up tilt has more KO power than his up smash but is weird and hard to land. at low % the opponent can even interrupt it between hits, which is bizarre.

down tilt has some of the most hit stun out of all his moves, but sends the enemy too high to reliably follow with anything.

basically, I think he camps because his punish game is not all that great.

This is really helpful!
I like the idea of the axe as a faster punish, thanks!

 

[InfiniteTripping]

I had trouble using the axe for anything actually. You have to get too close to get it to hit and if you miss, there's end lag.

 

[Plummn]

I had trouble using the axe for anything actually. You have to get too close to get it to hit and if you miss, there's end lag.

This is how I felt. It works when I'm trying to chop down a tree, since the range extends a bit, and I'm protected by the tree.

 

[Kofu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6INKsSFrhyo&feature=youtu.be

This video shows off some good Villager action in a tournament. The way he plays village is interesting.

You mean this match where he keeps trying the same sharking tactics even though the Little Mac player figured out how to work around them?

I admit Little Mac probably has the advantage on the ground but that was just bad adapting.

I only have the demo, but I can tell Villager can be a very campy character. Even with that, though, he has some solid melee attacks and is definitely not helpless at close range. I'll probably play Villager like I play ROB: using projectiles to limit the opponent's options but still preferring to get in close.

I personally think Villager will make mid tier but probably won't get to high tier. He has excellent stage control options but has several easily punishable moves.

 

[VivaReverie]

I don't have that many competitive friends so I don't exactly know how good a strategy this is, but I constantly set up gyroids, running into (But not in front of) it, if they try confronting it head on, the gyroid takes a hit and I follow up with a running attack or air attack, often nair or uair, but if they try jumping over I try an up-smash or something. This and constantly using the side airs as ledge-guarding mechanics worked pretty well for me. I pretty much completely avoided his down-B though.

Albeit this is only from experience from the demo so what do I know.

 

[ChillySundance]

I had trouble using the axe for anything actually. You have to get too close to get it to hit and if you miss, there's end lag.

It's faster than his grab though, which is surprisingly slow. Like, slow enough that rolling behind Mario while he's doing his Fsmash and using grab will allow him to simply roll away from it before it hits, meaning that if you actually want to punish anyone who's in your face, you have a few options

up tilt (not very useful)
forward tilt (gets them away from you but does minimal damage and has some lag)
down tilt (slower than your other options but decent)
up smash (risky)
axe (fast, strong, but has a lot of lag and limited range)

you'll have more luck punishing on roll or dodge with your axe than most of your other moves, assuming the opponent is up in your face.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

It's faster than his grab though, which is surprisingly slow. Like, slow enough that rolling behind Mario while he's doing his Fsmash and using grab will allow him to simply roll away from it before it hits, meaning that if you actually want to punish anyone who's in your face, you have a few options

up tilt (not very useful)
forward tilt (gets them away from you but does minimal damage and has some lag)
down tilt (slower than your other options but decent)
up smash (risky)
axe (fast, strong, but has a lot of lag and limited range)

you'll have more luck punishing on roll or dodge with your axe than most of your other moves, assuming the opponent is up in your face.

I suppose. It's a problem with Villager in general, his lack of range. He reminds me a lot of Melee Mewtwo, if Melee Mewtwo had awesome recovery options.

 

[ChillySundance]

I think his problem is more so the lag on most of his attacks, even the fast ones. He has JUST enough lag on most moves that he can't follow them up with much or use them to reliably poke (Mewtwo at least had very quick, ranged tilts. Villager has one tilt with solid range and speed and it's not even all that safe.)

as villager I have issues trying to punish people who just spam roll and air dodge. It's surprisingly hard to pin the opponent down and as a result you feel like you never have reliable KO opportunities unless you're gimping.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

The thing is though too it seems like a LOT of characters have too much lag, even for basic moves. It's not just Villager, even Mario, touted by many as a combo king, has a lot of lag. I am in the process of selling off my Nintendo collection and I had two copies of Melee, and I put them in my GameCube to test out the games and I started playing them and damn... it's been so long since I played Melee I forgot how quick it was. Even Bowser played pretty quick compared most of Brawl and this new game's cast.

 

[CHOMPY]

From playing the demo, it seems like Villager has the upper hand against Diddy. The fact that you can pocket the banana and keep it until Villager gets knocked out really limits Diddy's banana game. Most of Villagers aerials are pretty bad (in terms of range), except for his slingshot, which doesn't travel very far, no hit stun, but more of an aerial that you can just sit there and keep shooting slingshots until they eventually get up close. As far as his recovery, its broken as broken can be!!!! The smashes are terrible, except for his up smash.

It will be interesting to see where he lands on the tier list.

 

[AlMasterX]

Villager's lag is all due to the references they make to the Animal Crossing with his facial expressions from all the moves... The fan service is great but it's not the least bit practical

 

[HeavyLobster]

basically, I think he camps because his punish game is not all that great.

I'm pretty sure he camps because basically all of his close quarter moves are terrible when used as an approach without the aid of a projectile, and he has poor mobility to boot. He spams Lloid Rocket because it forces the opponent to make commitments that he can punish. He might not have a lot of guaranteed followups, but his aerial punish game is pretty good, as his slingshot can force people to airdodge into the ground, and dash attack is good at punishing landings. His edgeguard game is very strong and you can chase your opponents as far out as you want because of his recovery, so he's actually very good at punishing once he gets the opponent in the air/offstage, but he has no real options for putting them in said position other than spamming his projectiles in order to force them to do something punishable.

 

[gbaespada]

A video of me playing the villager! Might not be the best quality though.

 

[The Real Gamer]

as villager I have issues trying to punish people who just spam roll and air dodge. It's surprisingly hard to pin the opponent down and as a result you feel like you never have reliable KO opportunities unless you're gimping.

These are my exact sentiments.

He has great zoning/offstage tools but his close range options just seem far too unreliable to consistently punish the opponent (especially his lackluster grab).

Characters that can stay in his grill will be a major problem for him. As of now I'd guess he's going to end up mid tier at best but take that for what it is; a guess.

 

[gbaespada]

Oops deleted video and remade posted iton my original post though.

 

[deepseadiva]

I'm torn.

Sometimes I think she's bottom tier.

Other times she might be mid low.

 

[Opana]

I feel the rocket is extremely valuable to Villagers moveset, but not so much for recovery. It completely controls the area it travels down(Such as the ground, punishing rollers as others were discussing.), and I feel this tool is key in dealing with the opponent(Although some such as Mario have the means to deal with this with a reflector.). Combined with the sling shot(And to an extent, Uair/Dair), he can control the air and ground. As for landing kill moves, I'd skid cancel into maybe dsmash, and depending on how they react(Fast, Slow), I'd follow up appropriately with an aerial or tilt/smash.

 

[Soshii]

I was being very optimistic about Villager, but Villager's crippling defect is the inability to kill. This match is a good example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd6K3UrtPfk&list=UUpu15uRsvI2opP78cdslj3A

While Villager was able to keep up in percentage, she got 2 stocked because she couldn't finish Greninja off in the both matches.

 

[gbaespada]

I was being very optimistic about Villager, but Villager's crippling defect is the inability to kill. This match is a good example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd6K3UrtPfk&list=UUpu15uRsvI2opP78cdslj3A

While Villager was able to keep up in percentage, she got 2 stocked because she couldn't finish Greninja off in the first match.

Did you see my video I killed mario pretty early. It's a pretty good example.