how far away are we from a matchup chart?

[vegeta18]

we still dont have an official tier list or even an official rulset in competitive smash 4, but one thing im looking forward to the most is a solid match up chart. We should have a pretty good idea by now of who generally does well in which matchups, but many character forums seem underdeveloped in terms of matchup discussion. How long do you think it will take before we get a solid match up chart similar to this one used in brawl.

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-matchup-chart-v3-0.338390/

 

[Wintermelon43]

tbh, we could make one right now by having one voting thread in each forum asking for everyone's thoughts, and then get it made. it's the same with an official tier list, we could do it right now but everyone's too lazy to do it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The main problem is the mixed outcomes between sub-forums, and not everyone has been willing to give others their insight on the match-ups. And of course, there's also the fact that the balance patches can end up changing everything in a match-up.

 

[pmart]

The fastest way to do one chart like this is to start with 4 characters.
Probably:

And do all the voting in one thread, in a weekly basis, just like this thead: http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-...2-21-new-votes-from-the-4th-of-october.379736

And week by week we introduce one new character.

The voting could be done to: all matches of this new character, and one match that already have a vote, giving +1 or -1.

The main problem is that someone must organize all this stuff...

 

[vegeta18]

never really thought about it like that, id be down to give one a try and hopefully get enough attention to keep it going

 

[Hathaway12]

I would be down for helping with something like this.
Some things to consider
-custom or non custom (assuming non custom)
-how miis should be counted if at all (1111,all customs, etc.)

More thoughts
-Start with more well known characters (shiek, diddy, rosa, etc.)
-If characters have major changes, such as the recent luigi change, consider revisiting them sooner or delaying when they will be talked about.
-Possibly start with lose, win, or neutral on match-ups and then eventually move into +1,+2, etc. (similar to how the tier list is separating into tiers first and then worrying about the order within the tiers later.


also there is this http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-bros-u-character-matchup-chart.387279/

 

[RANDOM_Stranger]

I think this game is messy when it comes to tier lists. First off all, we havn't agreed on if Miis are legit. Size matters, moves matters and etc.

Second off all. This game had and will have balance patches. You saw what it did to Diddy. And maby Luigi this patch. I dunno, I know some quit him becaus they couldn't use the same combo they were used to have with him.

What we all have at least agreed on is that Sheik is the best character for tourney gaming ATM.
But then it gets blurry. We don't know who is after her. Pikachu, Luigi, Rosalina, ZZS, Fox, Ness? We can only tell about where this or that character seem to be on the list. Like I said, these balance patches make it more difficulty.

 

[IndigoSSB]

Hate to be the debbie downer, but making a list of every single matchup would be a monumental task. Would it even be worth it for us to put in so much work into it only for it to be rendered pointless by a balance patch?

Take Luigi for example, with his new changes we would basically have to redo his matchup chart. I really like the idea, but we should wait until the meta stabilizes.

 

[Raijinken]

Patches change things lightly, so until the game stops patching, it's probably best to be vague about matchups.

Like, there are some obvious ones (i.e. Sheik vs Most Characters and Especially Some Characters), but a lot of them are a bit more open.

 

[vegeta18]

what if we just had a simple + - or = for each matchup. Just who wins, and who loses. If thats even too crazy maybe we could just have + and - where the plus means equal matchup or positive. And maybe even just ignore mii`s for now. And i`d like to make it in a format that is ever changing similar to the community tier list, so if there are patches and stuff we can adjust as needed. Or if things were just incorrect we can adjust them as well.

Maybe something like once a matchup gets 3 votes as either positive or negative it will get that and then needs 5 votes to be persuaded in the other direction.Ex. 3 different people vote that sheik beats DDD, it wont be changed until a certain amount of people vote that DDD beats sheik.

Rosalina and sheik would make great starting points because the rosalina boards already have almost every matchup ratio, and sheik is super well known as well.

 

[CrazyPerson]

A match up table and tier list are 2 things I really want to see. (voted on by the people who extensively know the game in and out... not just anyone who wants to vote... this is a vote people like me should not be included in.)

Balance patches do mess things up... it seems thus far the response has been to not make one. I can get that... people don't want to release anything prematurely, or before it has had ample time to develop.

Honestly... I think the only solution is to somewhat rush a vote (not like a week after release rush, but after a couple of high level events have happened and been analyzed.), and add the disclaimer that balance patches change things, and as always the only info that can be used is the current known meta... and like all lists are subject to change as more players discover more stuff.

IMO a slightly rushed list and match up table derived by the best, would be better than not having one. I don't have the time to go drilling every character... so it would be an awesome tool to have to decide who I spent my limited training time on.

 

[Hathaway12]

Mainly to get discussion going but here is a match-up chart of 10 of the more well known/top characters. I tried to get most of my information from both character forums for the match-ups. Pretty general with how i compared different match-ups with winning, losing, or somewhat even (which i might have been a bit lenient with).

 

[iVoltage]

Hate to be the debbie downer, but making a list of every single matchup would be a monumental task. Would it even be worth it for us to put in so much work into it only for it to be rendered pointless by a balance patch?

Take Luigi for example, with his new changes we would basically have to redo his matchup chart. I really like the idea, but we should wait until the meta stabilizes.

That may be true, but only a few things would change at a time. All somebody would need to do is update the charts. I think that a general chart would be a great resource. The game is only going to be patched for so long they have to stop at some point.

 

[ChikoLad]

what if we just had a simple + - or = for each matchup. Just who wins, and who loses. If thats even too crazy maybe we could just have + and - where the plus means equal matchup or positive. And maybe even just ignore mii`s for now. And i`d like to make it in a format that is ever changing similar to the community tier list, so if there are patches and stuff we can adjust as needed. Or if things were just incorrect we can adjust them as well.

Maybe something like once a matchup gets 3 votes as either positive or negative it will get that and then needs 5 votes to be persuaded in the other direction.Ex. 3 different people vote that sheik beats DDD, it wont be changed until a certain amount of people vote that DDD beats sheik.

Rosalina and sheik would make great starting points because the rosalina boards already have almost every matchup ratio, and sheik is super well known as well.

The Rosalina boards have rankings but they are mostly rushed, based on one single playstyle for Rosalina (super defensive/campy), and only state the opinions of a very small group of people in each case.

Rosalina is the last character that should have a match up table right now. Potential wise, she's the best character in the game, but nobody is using that potential because they wanna play it safe and defensively (even after the most recent patch which greatly improved her offensive capabilities and even gave her a shield lock).

 

[Carl the Oatswag]

I think we can't get a solid matchup chart because the meta game evolves with patches