How does Skill Level affect Tier Perspective

[4nace]

As I, and I am sure many others, play through Smash, my personal opinions of all the characters is constantly changing. As I became a much better Smash player and started to learn the game inside and out, who I once considered a great challenge became a very favorable match-up and who I once considered terrifying became, well... Ganondorf.

So after much thought, I've realized that a lot of people's opinion on the tier list, characters, and even how the game is played depends on their skill level, so I decided to stroke my brain and think about the top three characters in a player's mind as he/she advances through certain skill levels. This is all theory though.

Skill Level 1 - Your Girlfriend
(These players do not play games, and their only experience with smash is when they were 12 and their brothers told them to pick Kirby. They rely on characters with awesome recoveries. They also like to float above you and use brick. Down-air is foreign to them Thunder is also a staple move at this skill level.)
1. Pit
2. Kirby
3. Pikachu

Skill Level 2- Noob Level
(When you first get the game and are not a competitive smasher, these players usually play FFA or teams and sometimes even play with items on! gwarsh! Ike and wolf are mad overpowered at this skill level as they have good kill moves and everyone sucks with recovery at this point so their weaknesses aren't as evident. While thunder is still amazing, pikachu loses some ground to the likes of Ike, Wolf and Zelda)
1. Ike
2. Wolf
3. Zelda

Skill Level 3 - Less Nooby
(These players sometimes go online to learn new tricks, they know play mostly one-on-ones but don't really care for tier lists and rely on easy to do maneuvers. They know how to shield now and roll alot more than they should. Easy Chaingrabs rule this level and cause many friends to stop playing the game or whine about melee being better. Rolling and airdodging rule here as well.)
1. Falco
2. Dedede
3. Wolf (hey his forward smash still owns at this point)

Skill Level 4 - Metaknight is OPed!!!!
(These players just started going onto the smash boards and now they think Metaknight is better than everyone else! One of their friends or even they play metaknight and now they can't remember a time when they thought he was bad.)
1. Metaknight
2. Falco
3. Snake

Skill Level 5 - Tournament Newbs
(These players are attending their first few tournaments with their new mains, however once getting there they find out that they actually know the metaknight matchup pretty well and change who they think is cheap once they get three-stocked there.)
1. Olimar
2. Ice Climbers
3. Diddy Kong

Skill Level 6 - Smashboarders
(These players are smashboard fans. They go to a few tournaments, learn all the ATs even of characters they rarely play and discuss tier lists/strats/whatever with the online community.)
1. Metaknight
2. Snake
3. Wario

Skill Level 7- The Metagamers
(These players are above the smashboards, and could care less what they have to say, they understand the game inside and out and don't really care too much about tier lists.)
1. T- Metaknight - Snake
3. T- Wario, DDD, Falco, Lucario, Olimar, Diddy, Ice Climbers, Kirby, Squirtle(lolol) ,possibly more


So I guess the point of this post is, do you guys feel the same way? Who did you used to think was overpowered? How have your opinions changed now that your play has evolved? Could this Skill level reflect the trend of noobs complaining about tier lists?

Also I may go into more depth later if I can get people at certain skill levels who can tell me their opinions of the characters.

I myself would say I am around Tournament Newb - Smashboarder.

-4nace

 

[C~Dog]

Pfft, dont be ridiculous, gamers don't have girlfriends.

 

[gopobox]

^ LOL i +1 that.

I reckon mk is top for all.
I think i would be a level 5 T_T

 

[Brado]

Pfft, dont be ridiculous, gamers don't have girlfriends.

Speak for yourself

I quite like this thread, you've done a good job describing each stage and the character picks are for the most part right. Great job.

 

[lonewolf537]

i find this to be rather accurate, though idk where i fight in on this, i use marth snake and zelda.

 

[Red Arremer]

Beginners and "girlfriends" pick Pikachu and Marth a lot, too.

 

[Nixernator]

Pfft, dont be ridiculous, gamers don't have girlfriends.

Hahaha wow.

The only problem is that at really low levels don't people think Jigglypuff is bad coz "OMG JIGGLYPUFF IS SO WEAK AND DIES SO EASY"?

And why is Falco so high? Is it because of those people who side-b/Laser spam with him at low levels?

I like your idea tho its a good point.

PS: If we're doing what level we think we are, I'd say level 4 (Lol ban him nao plz )

 

[Jim Morrison]

I'm level 6, except for the part of actually going to tourneys <_<

 

[Zeallyx]

I'm Level 7.

 

[Mota]

Lmao I'm in between level 4 and 5.

Overpowered to me back then was Pit lolol. "OMG relfector, recovery, spammy arrows ffs" lol.
I used to think DK and Snake had way to slow attacks, pretty much did their smashes and forgot about tilts.

 

[Circa]

I'm somewhere between 5 and 6, although I'm also a slight hint of 7. I only care about tier lists in the sense that I want to move my character up it. As for where they are on it, I could give a **** less. So...I guess they could move down it too. Doesn't really matter.

 

[JUDGE]

i am prob a level 6 even though i really try to discover and improve marios metagame

Pfft, dont be ridiculous, gamers don't have girlfriends.

........i am sorry for you

 

[18.15.2.15x12.9.14.11]

Pfft, dont be ridiculous, gamers don't have girlfriends.

No johns.

 

[Mr.-0]

im a... 4.

And who said gamers don't have girlfriends? Oh wait, i'm not a gamer really.

 

[Nestec]

I'd also say I'm somewhere between 5 and 6...with the exception of the tournament-attending part. -_-

Lol, back in my n00b days, I used to try using ONLY Squirtle. When I got killed, I would quickly switch back to Squirtle.

I used to think Snake was utter garbage because of how slow and chunky he is. I was like "WTF, why is this guy top tier". I also thought Peach and Sheik were worthy of Low Tier status...

 

[Palpi]

this list makes no sense and it couldn't if it tried.

 

[Nestec]

so is your mom

 

[4nace]

The reason I put falco so high early is that alot of people learn his change-grab early and it is the easiest chaingrab to do by far, but he also stays high a little later because he has lots of options that help people in the mid-skill level. Same goes for DDD.

Also, I agree with you that many of the first skill levels would probably not consider jigglypuff good. I'm trying to think up who would be a good replacement for the third character there as pikachu is who I'm leaning on, but his recovery is very difficult for people who don't play any videogames.

But yea, I'm happy to see alot of you see a similar trend =P.

 

[zeldspazz]

Lol, who would pick Zelda in any phase XD /joke

I tihnk Im a level 5 to almost 6, but I dont attend tourneys except online ones.

 

[Meru.]

You should also make one for the bottom tiers.

Candidates in the beginning:
Peach
Sheik
Jigglypuff (your girlfriend is wrong)
Olimar
Ness
Zero Suit Samus?
Bowser

 

[Nixernator]

Yeah pika sounds good, all people I know who pick it up are like ZOMG DOWN-B IS TEH BROKEN and just spam it, and at the lower levels it works Lol.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I am honestly 6, but I don't give a crap about tiers.

 

[Afropony]

I think G&W should be up there in level 1, just tell who ever it is to flick the yellow stick in any direction.

 

[GHNeko]

Pfft, dont be ridiculous, gamers don't have girlfriends.

Tell that to my girlfriend who is a Snake main and just started learning competitive smash. V:

And refuses to use MK because he's 2gud.

 

[Sieguest]

Tell that to my girlfriend who is a Snake main and just started learning competitive smash. V:

And refuses to use MK because he's 2gud.

You sir have won the game! :D


I am 5-6
but I can't attend tourneys

 

[shinyspoon42]

...I lost the game. ; n;

I'm level 5, because I'm just starting to go to tourneys now.

(fyi, beginners <3 their pikachus and kirbys)

 

[Y05H!]

This may get me shunned by my own board, but Yoshi's recovery and down-b, added with the "OMG, YOSHI CAN'T DIE DURING 2ND JUMP!11!1!SHIFT+1!!1" May make him fairly popular with begginner's. In every smash I started with him, went to other character's (Fox and Falco, usually) then went back when I got a deeper understanding of each game. (Not saying Yoshi should be up top, I'm just that much of a fanboy)

Pika comment was pretty accurate as well, shortly after getting the game I had 3 friend's pick Pika in a FFA and it was a **** nighmare, especially since all 3 of them mained him for several week's before changing.

I lol'd at the chaingrab comment, I can actually relate to that one. Met a guy that mained Ness and got royally ticked when I used CG on him as Yoshi. He calmed down a couple matches later when I suggested using his 2nd jump to get out of it <_<;;

I guess I'd be a 5, as soon as I'm back in the states I plan on hitting some tourney's up, but I have melee tourney experience so I'm not entirely new to it.

 

[SmashChu]

Your problem is this: you assume everyone is going to the same mountain. They are definatly not.

Tournament Smash players are not the best because they cut most of the content of the game. Items are gone. No 4 players. Fewer stages. How is this more skilled? That is what the OP assumes, but, as an old business saying goes: ***=u+me.

The game runs a lot differently for everyone else. They get better with more stages. They get better with items. They get better with 4 player battles. Tournament Smash is not the top of the mountain (actually, to most Smash fans, it's the bottom). Once you get past 3, people branch off, so to speak.

 

['V']

Personally I think Kirby can fit all of those except for the last one.

 

[JUDGE]

Yeah pika sounds good, all people I know who pick it up are like ZOMG DOWN-B IS TEH BROKEN and just spam it, and at the lower levels it works Lol.

lol 2good^^
this reminds me on my n00b friend who also thinks that lol
don't forget marths who just spam their fsmash and dancing blades lol

 

[JOE!]

Tournament Smash players are not the best because they cut most of the content of the game. Items are gone. No 4 players. Fewer stages. How is this more skilled? That is what the OP assumes, but, as an old business saying goes: ***=u+me.

it is more skilled because there are less variables to mess you up.

For starters, Items:

items are cool in that they can eliminate some character's flaws or even exploit their strengths even more. They can also heal you, make you faster, give you a projectile or even make you INVINCIBLE.

on that note, items also spawn randomly, and nearer the losing player to boot. Wouldnt you be upset if you were beating someone, but then they win becaus ethey got lucky with a bob-omb spawning near them?

Item randomness takes away from skill, in that it is all luck based on what you get, and who gets it.

4 players are done, but not free for alls (theyre done in doubles). free for alls are like itmes in that its sort of luck based.

For instance, you could be fighting one opponent, then get hit just right so it sends you into another opponents smash, and not only do you lose a stock, but the smash spammer gets +1 score from the 1st opponent's work.

Other than that, in a 4 player match, people can make alliances against another player, making it near unwinnable for said player.

Even worse, is a free for all with items, making it very luck based on whether say, lucas gets a smash ball, or someone gets a bumper.


Stages also fall into the random slot due to hazards. Take spear pillar for example, there is no way to control which pokemon appears, and if Palkia appears and reverses controls, or does a big beam attack, killing a player, thats not skill on their opponent's part, it's bad luck.

Apart from randomness, some stages provide tactical abuse points, like Bridge of Eldin and other walk off stages due to chain-grabbers being able to effortlessly kill opponents.

Some stages also have walls, allowing for locks and other combos charcaters cannot escape, or are simply so big that fast characters can get a % lead and stall the whole match (hyrule temple is a good example)

 

[4nace]

Your problem is this: you assume everyone is going to the same mountain. They are definatly not.

Tournament Smash players are not the best because they cut most of the content of the game. Items are gone. No 4 players. Fewer stages. How is this more skilled? That is what the OP assumes, but, as an old business saying goes: ***=u+me.

The game runs a lot differently for everyone else. They get better with more stages. They get better with items. They get better with 4 player battles. Tournament Smash is not the top of the mountain (actually, to most Smash fans, it's the bottom). Once you get past 3, people branch off, so to speak.

I never said anything about stages/items/FFAs being bad, its just that this is how alot of people progress, and it made sense to me. If you don't want to be competitive then you can still have alot of fun with the game, this is just a competitive process I would say.

My girlfriend rocks with Pit, but I agree with Pikachu.

Any other changes?

 

[A17]

when i was new to this I didn't pick anyone who could fly or have 5 jumps.

The first i ever picked was DK.

 

[Kewkky]

Personally I think Kirby can fit all of those except for the last one.

Kirby deserves to be in high tier! I can't say top because I haven't played USA's super pros yet, but still... He's a very very solid character with no real visible flaws. I fail to see how you think he doesn't deserve the name metagamer. D:

I'm a 6 btw. 7 is reserved for BRoomers, I guess, since they ARE "above everyone else" according to a few SWF members...

 

[uhmuzing]

Quite some time before I joined the boards, me and all of my friends played Ike. Ike dominates at low levels of play.

 

[Adler]

The first main I picked was Pikachu.
Not because he was any better. I hated all his B moves especially Down-B (although I liked Up-B and learned by a fluke how to QAC after 10 minutes in practice mode).
I was just a massive pokemon fan (still am), and Pikachu was the only character I recognised (I didn't have any other nintendo games).
Other characters I liked were characters with interesting B moves (the only way I could remember their names), like Zelda and Pit.

Then I discovered the awesome might of Luigi. He owned in the SSE and became the best character.

Then I found out about the tier list and instantly switched to Captain Falcon (out of defiance).

Now I like Marth best (someone who I hated because of uninteresting B-moves back in my Pikachu days).

 

[zeldspazz]

Btw, imo #7 is a bit contradictory, cus they are the metagamers, so they would probably follow the tier list cus its what shows the levels of the metagame at a certain point. But then you say they dont care about the tier list, and then go to list top/high tiers. Couldnt they, at that point, chose any character on the roster if they could care less about the tier list? And if they are metagamers, wouldnt they examine and analyze the tier list since it reflects teh characters metagame? Its just confusing to me.

 

[llamapaste]

Sonic would fit in level two though it seems. I've seen a couple casual Sonics and he seems popular at the noob level. It also seems like around level four there's a group of smashers that break away from the norm and use low tiers. A lot of smashers this level don't advance and stay casual for a long time untill a change of thinking. Or even less likely, advance their low tiers metetagame or become the best with their low tier. 1. Captain Falcon.
2.Link
3. Yoshi

 

[4nace]

Ever since the mods moved this to General instead of Tactical, the discussion has greatly deteriorated...

But anyway, this list isn't about who these players play, or who is popular, but rather who they consider to be the best characters in the game at a certain skill level.

Lots of people do play other characters such as low tiers or Sonic, but it doesn't take long for them to realize that they are not the best characters in the game, even though they may still play them (ie fanboys or newbies who enjoy playing link or ganondorf)

I understand what you are saying llama and i agree that there are many people who break away and do not follow this trend at all and play who they want to play, but nonetheless, they still understand that their low tiers are not the best characters in the game (alteast i hope they do). But yea, I agree that not all players follow the trend here, but I was just listing some characters that seem at the top of the game in this particular trend.

@zeldaspazz As for the #7 being inaccurate. Do you think that Ally and M2K care what the smashboards / back room says about the characters they play. Even if the tier list said that Metaknight was dead last, M2K would still be winning money with him. So yea, the people that are leading the metagame do care less about tier lists, and thats why it is always changing, because if all the best players followed it religiously, then it would never change.

 

[BSP]

I don't think sonic would remain a noob's main for very long unless they are really dedicated to him.. He has his pros, but he has obvious cons as well.

I'd say im a six, cause i do wifi tourneys, but can't physically go to tourneys