How do you deal with zoning characters?

[j3lly]

Particularly Megaman, Duckhunt and Link (who I feel is still a hard matchup for Ness)?

>I haven't had much experience facing a good Duck Hunt but I included him since I imagine other posters here may have useful tips against what may evolve to be one of the most used Smash 4 characters.
>Megaman. I despise this match up so much. Megaman reminds me a bit of Snake: projectiles flying all over the place, surprisingly heavy, good stage control, many disjointed hitboxes and a ridiculously strong u-tilt.
>Link: He outranges Ness and can pester Ness with arrows, bombs, boomerangs, etc. That's such a frustrating combination for me.

PKT1 is too slow to counter back as a projectile and my Fairs usually get greeted with a Lemon or sword to the face. Even if I properly space my Fairs, it's usually only enough to poke them with little options to follow up with. I've always felt Ness' approach options were poor but maybe I'm just not using him properly.

 

[ATH_]

Tip: You can use Down-B (with Ness) to suck up Link's Bombs, Megaman's Charge Shot, Crash Bomb Explosion, AND Pellet. This also means the Duck Hunt explosions and such. For Megaman, you can Down-B to suck up so many of his moves it's insane. If he throw a blade at you, catch it, throw it back. Practice all of this to deal pressure on their mind into not using this campy technique.
http://smashboards.com/guides/psi-magnet-reference-guide.8/ (Here btw)

 

[j3lly]

Tip: You can use Down-B (with Ness) to suck up Link's Bombs, Megaman's Charge Shot, Crash Bomb Explosion, AND Pellet. This also means the Duck Hunt explosions and such. For Megaman, you can Down-B to suck up so many of his moves it's insane. If he throw a blade at you, catch it, throw it back. Practice all of this to deal pressure on their mind into not using this campy technique.
http://smashboards.com/guides/psi-magnet-reference-guide.8/ (Here btw)

I keep forgetting Ness can absorb Link's bombs, seems so trippy haha.


I feel like good Megaman players will bait the lemons so a Ness can absorb them and they can punish accordingly. I still haven't used much of the PSI magnet because of the ending lag but I heard the lag is reduced if Ness successful absorbs a projectile?

That makes the Megaman matchup easier. Link still annoys me :/

 

[PKBeam]

Mega Man is really hard to heal off of.
If you stick your magnet out chances are you'll be sliced up by a blade.

also, because you can absorb bombs Link is largely limited to arrows and boomerang, which makes it way easier to approach.

 

[Uffe]

Spoiler: Mega Man

It's all based on experience. A good Mega Man will bait you with Metal Blade and Crash Bomber. You can take his Metal Blade with an air dodge or neutral air, and most likely also forward air. He basically shuts down your options of coming at him from above and directly on the ground. Pellets are useful for this character. The one I dealt with would use his pellets when I got close, which would stop me dead in my tracks. If I blocked them, he'd try to grab. If I jumped, he'd jump away while throwing out his forward air. Sometimes it's not just the pellets he'll fire first and then jump back with a forward attack. He may use Metal Blade instead. If he fires Crash Bomber at you, you can absorb it when it blows up. Keep in mind that the moment Mega Man does this, he'll either do it again and try to strike you with Metal Blade or a dash attack.

Fortunately, when you absorb the Crash Bomber, you can roll to the right, as the PSI Magnet lag cancels after it gives Ness health. I should also mention that Mega Man can run away from you and fire his Metal Blade at you without actually facing your direction. When he throws you up in the air, he'll do a number of things. He'll either follow up with Coil Rush > Air Shooter, or wait for you to come back to the stage so he can grab you. Speaking of which, Mega Man's back throw and up throw are potential killers. It's good to be aware of this. If he's rolling a lot, you can use your up smash (which I would prefer), down smash or PK Fire against him. Once you're off stage, he can do either of the following:

1. Fall upon you with Leaf Shield, which can gimp Ness greatly.
2. Bring out his Metal Blade and drop it down to interrupt your PK Thunder recovery, and then follow up with his Hard Knuckle to gimp you. If you can, try to recover high, and if you can't try to read him and go for an air dodge with your second jump. Or you can delay your PK Thunder turning into PK Thunder 2.
3. Come out at you with his forward aerial or back aerial, either pushing you further away from the stage or killing you altogether.
4. If you manage to recover, he might go for his forward smash, so be wary of that.

Really rush this character down so he can't use much of his attacks at his disposal, but don't go in without a plan. Jumping in and getting hit would be stupid. See what he does the most and exploit it. Every character has a weakness, find his.

Spoiler: Link

Link s strong, but he also has weak points. He as a character is slow, so he can't outrun you. He may be able to out range you with his projectile, but there are ways around that. A typical Link will shoot an arrow or two at you from a distance, trying to force you to approach, and because your projectile range and freedom aren't as good as his, your best choice might be to do a full hop and hit him with PK Thunder while he charges his arrow. When he charges it, he's left open, even after firing it off, because there is some lag afterwards. The Gale Boomerang cannot harm you as it comes back, so dodge it when he throws it. As for his bombs, you can absorb those. If he knows that Ness can absorb his bombs, he'll probably fire arrows first and then hit you with a bomb afterwards.

Once Ness gets close to Link, he'll rely more on his neutral attacks, which out range Ness'. Of course you can use PK Fire, go in for a grab, or use some aerials against him. When you get him off stage, he's pretty much left open for any attack. In the past, you could just spike Link if he was coming from under the stage. But Ness is still able to use PK Flash as a way to scare him from reaching the edge, or hitting him as he comes up. Ness can also use his PK Thunder's tailwhip to interrupt his recover, as it will momentarily stun Link, causing him to go for another Sword Spin. Or if you're feeling lucky, you can fall upon him with Ness' neutral air, or even push him out with his forward air. Link's recovery is not the worst in the game, but there are many ways to deal with it. PK Fire if he's in range can also make Link lose a stock.

But enough about that. Ness' aerial game can bait Link when you're within his vicinity. If you get Link high up in the air, don't challenge his down aerial with your up aerial or PK Thunder. You may be able to get away with tailwhipping him as he comes down with a down aerial, but he could also strike you. Link is heavy, so you should be able to land some aerial combos on him. Don't be afraid of his projectile game, you can get around it.

 

[PKBeam]

oh and don't spam Fair at Link because he can really mess you up for abusing it.

 

[Uffe]

Fair can mess up Ness in general. I think it's best used in the air rather than coming down upon your opponent with it, because it gets really close. You can Double Aerial Shuffle with it, but nair does a better job at that. Ness' bair also has better range on it, keeping Ness at a safe distance from getting grabbed.

 

[TheEnderFriend]

If you're playing a link, absorb the bombs and deflect any fully charged arrows. If he spams uncharged arrows, they're not too hard to dodge.
For mega man, absorb and reflect everything. Reflect the blade and the crash bomb. Absorb the FSmash and the crash bomb explosion. Same idea for DHD.

 

[PKBeam]

uh, don't reflect charged arrows. I've played like three Nesses who tried to Fsmash them and I just shoot them in the face during cooldown.

 

[TheEnderFriend]

uh, don't reflect charged arrows. I've played like three Nesses who tried to Fsmash them and I just shoot them in the face during cooldown.

I've done it quite a few times, you need to have the bat charging so you can time it better.

 

[Jee412]

The best way is to perfect shield the projectile and if they come to grab you, nair out of shield. Easy as that !

 

[PKBeam]

I've done it quite a few times, you need to have the bat charging so you can time it better.

yeah that's the thing. if they see you charging Fsmash they'll just wait (if they're smart).
and even if the reflect DOES connect with Link, the risk-reward isn't worth it IMO. Instead of trying to reflect arrows you could be jumping over them to try and get in close combat, where Ness can actually do something.

 

[TheEnderFriend]

yeah that's the thing. if they see you charging Fsmash they'll just wait (if they're smart).
and even if the reflect DOES connect with Link, the risk-reward isn't worth it IMO. Instead of trying to reflect arrows you could be jumping over them to try and get in close combat, where Ness can actually do something.

That actually does sound like it would work better.

Maybe none of the links I've played were that good, so I was able to get away with that.