How do I fight a Rosalina player?

[ChikoLad]

I never even said Little Mac was broken.

I said it was laughable how people think Luma is broken yet do not put the same criticism towards Little Mac's signature mechanics. Because if you really think Rosalina being broken is a logical conclusion for the sole reason of "Luma can attack and punish punishers, etc", then you should be applying that criticism to Little Mac tenfold.

The things you guys are complaining about with Luma are literally just Luma mitigating some of SoRo's weaknesses. Little Mac, on the other hand, has mechanics that bring him from strength to strength to strength.

For example, Rosalina is easy to hit (in theory) because she's big. So Luma is able to either take hits for her, or hit opponents away from her when they have her locked in a jab combo, grab, etc.

This is a case of "Weakness to Strength".

Little Mac, however, is not easy to hit. He is small, crouches when running (thus reducing his hurtbox), and Side B gives him invincibility frames on the ground. He is also really fast (while Rosalina's running speed is only slightly above average). Oh, and he has a counter. He has literally no excuse to get hit, especially from slow, hard hitting attacks.

Yet, despite that, he has Super Armour that allows him to shrug off pretty much any attack, which THEN allows him to get a huge bonus to his Power Meter due to it being built up through both taking AND dealing damage, which THEN grants him access to a shield ignoring OHKO move. So he has the tools to EASILY avoid being hit, yet still has mechanics that reward him for being hit anyway.

This is a case of "Strength to Strength to Strength to Strength".

Your logic behind Rosalina being broken is very flawed, but if you choose to believe it isn't, then by logic, you should believe it applies tenfold to Little Mac.

If you don't, you are clearly just biased against Rosalina in some capacity.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I don't believe she as a whole is that broken, but I think the luma mechanics, to some capacity, are quite silly. I'm very entitled to think that and I should be allowed to think that. I never said "WHOA SHE'S BROKEN" I said the potential for this mechanic to be a problem is very evident and a lot of people are going to see it as a problem.

I don't know where or in what world I outright said "Rosalina is broken look at this", the word "problematic" does not equate with busted.

If you want someone calling Rosalina broken, go look on Twitter. I also never said you called Little Mac broken, where did you read that? I said comparing these two things are very separate, apples and oranges, and that the answer you gave me was perfectly fine. I figured you'd read that as "ok I'm about done, thank you for the answer." Slow down, I haven't accused anyone of anything.

 

[Psionic]

I never even said Little Mac was broken.

I said it was laughable how people think Luma is broken yet do not put the same criticism towards Little Mac's signature mechanics. Because if you really think Rosalina being broken is a logical conclusion for the sole reason of "Luma can attack and punish punishers, etc", then you should be applying that criticism to Little Mac tenfold.

except with little mac, don't you have to take damage?
edit:
also, you're wrong. you're completely leaving out how the damage that luma takes doesn't add into rosalina's. luma does offense, but the damage it takes is nonexistent aside from it's death, which is unfair.
edit of the other edit:
and don't forget that mac pretty much has to be grounded to survive, considering how ****ty his airgame is.

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't believe she as a whole is that broken, but I think the luma mechanics, to some capacity, are quite silly. I'm very entitled to think that and I should be allowed to think that. I never said "WHOA SHE'S BROKEN" I said the potential for this mechanic to be a problem is very evident and a lot of people are going to see it as a problem.

Well of course you'll see it as a problem if you do nothing to overcome said problem and just mark it as "defo gonna be a problem in the future". No, it is a problem NOW. And not at least trying to overcome it now of course means it will be a problem in the future.

As a Dr. Mario main (evidently low tier character according to the early meta), you should understand that more than most. He has a lot of problems to overcome to keep up with the pack.

except with little mac, don't you have to take damage?

Yeah, but it's a good thing.

If Little Mac shrugged off Kirby's fully charged hammer, he'd take like 30% damage. However, it would not interrupt Little Mac's attack. And due to this game's rage mechanic, the 30% damage he just took increases the launch power of his Smash attack. So bye-bye, Kirby.

However, if Kirby did the same to Rosalina, she'd go flying (and take damage). Luma MIGHT hit Kirby AFTER if he's close enough to Kirby. But Rosalina has already been sent flying. Plus, none of Luma's moves have as much damage output or launch power as Little Mac's Smash attacks. So bye-bye, Rosalina.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yeah as a Doc main I am gonna have to find my way against this character with Doc, will be vastly difficult without a very good local scene, but I play other characters on the side so I may switch to them for Rosa. My closest others are Wario, Falcon, Ganondorf and I guess Luigi from time to time, also Mario but that was a given.

Doc is going to struggle against anyone (although not a massive struggle but it's a struggle), so this is just one more I have to squirm against, s'how I think of it.

Also of course I'm gonna overcome my weaknesses! Ideally, anyways...it's hard to force RosaLuma to approach with Doc, which is where he shines, so the switch for this specific MU may be unavoidable.

 

[ChikoLad]

In terms of counters for Rosalina, ZSS and Lucario seem like the safest right now. Ness has potential against her too, though it's risky since Rosalina can eat his recovery for breakfast. I also think regular Mario is good against her in the right hands.

And yeah, in theory, forcing Rosalina to approach is impossible. She can down B your projectiles, and if you don't have projectiles, she has Luma to send out as a sort of "projectile". She never actually HAS to do the approaching herself if she really doesn't want to.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yeah Doc's gameplan, at least, his most optimal one, can't come to full fruition unless I can play perfect so it's really not worth it IMO. I'd take Mario, maybe ZSS, I think Wario could have potential due to his ability to go in and out but people are gonna explore that as time goes.

 

[Clemente]

Rosalina doesn't really need any nerfs though

Yes, she does.

 

[BBC7]

This is quite specific, although Mega Man doesn't have to wait for the Crash Bomb to explode when fighting Rosalina. The Crash Bomb explodes as soon as it hits Luma and it will also hit Rosalina or Mega Man if they're standing right next to Luma when he/she is hit. The explosion also makes Luma stop dead in her tracks when Rosalina uses Neutral B, preventing Luma from being spaced properly or connecting. After having faced many Rosalina's including a friend, I can firmly say that Mega Man vs Rosalina isn't a 7:3 in Rosalina's favor. It feels more like a 6:4 in her favor, although that's for others including myself to decide.

 

[ChikoLad]

This is quite specific, although Mega Man doesn't have to wait for the Crash Bomb to explode when fighting Rosalina. The Crash Bomb explodes as soon as it hits Luma and it will also hit Rosalina or Mega Man if they're standing right next to Luma when he/she is hit. The explosion also makes Luma stop dead in her tracks when Rosalina uses Neutral B, preventing Luma from being spaced properly or connecting. After having faced many Rosalina's including a friend, I can firmly say that Mega Man vs Rosalina isn't a 7:3 in Rosalina's favor. It feels more like a 6:4 in her favor, although that's for others including myself to decide.

This isn't really a problem for her because Down B. Rosalina can force Mega Man to approach easily, because all of his projectiles have some sort of end lag, making it easy to Down B them.

 

[BBC7]

This isn't really a problem for her because Down B. Rosalina can force Mega Man to approach easily, because all of his projectiles have some sort of end lag, making it easy to Down B them.

In theory, her Down B should be Mega Man's bane although I haven't quite seen it perform the way it should on paper. It's pretty easy to play a minimalist projectile Mega Man and it's also easy for us to just wait for Rosalina to Neutral B so we Crash Bomb Luma, or try to approach through Dash Attack or Roll Cancel Grab. Leaf Shield also helps quite a bit because it makes rolling a little bit more dangerous if you're Rosalina.

 

[ChikoLad]

In theory, her Down B should be Mega Man's bane although I haven't quite seen it perform the way it should on paper. It's pretty easy to play a minimalist projectile Mega Man and it's also easy for us to just wait for Rosalina to Neutral B so we Crash Bomb Luma, or try to approach through Dash Attack or Roll Cancel Grab. Leaf Shield also helps quite a bit because it makes rolling a little bit more dangerous if you're Rosalina.

It might just be you haven't faced decent Rosalinas then.

As I mentioned earlier, Rosalina never has to approach. She can just Down B all of Mega Man's projectiles. He may decide to rely on his melee attacks from that point and approach himself, but he doesn't have many and Rosalina's are far better anyway, as are Luma's.

Rosalina doesn't really care if Luma is taken out against Mega Man, because she still outclasses Mega Man even without Luma. Which is why she can also just choose to use Luma as a shield and approach. She can also use a fully charged Luma Shot to barrel through any projectiles, and achieving that state against Mega Man is easy, because of his predictability.

And Leaf Shield isn't dangerous because Rosalina doesn't even need to roll. The move is very easy to see coming, fires slowly, and Mega Man can't do anything but grab from it, or fire it. So just make him fire it and Down B (or just, like, jump over it). He can't follow up from this either because of the end lag of Leaf Shield. Luma can even just take the leaves for Rosalina.

Mega Man is just objectively one of the worst characters to use against Rosalina. I say this as a fellow Mega Man main.

 

[BBC7]

Rosalina doesn't really care if Luma is taken out against Mega Man, because she still outclasses Mega Man even without Luma.

How so, may I ask? Rosalina's Smash Attacks are pretty nasty to get hit by, but she needs Luma in order for the range of those moves to be threatening. Otherwise, they're just regular Smash Attacks that aren't all that difficult to avoid. Fair and Bair are pretty good moves, but they don't send Mega Man flying far back enough.

 

[ChikoLad]

How so, may I ask? Rosalina's Smash Attacks are pretty nasty to get hit by, but she needs Luma in order for the range of those moves to be threatening. Otherwise, they're just regular Smash Attacks that aren't all that difficult to avoid. Fair and Bair are pretty good moves, but they don't send Mega Man flying far back enough.

Rosalina can chase her opponents in the air really well, I've had many KO's where I outright follow my opponents towards the magnifying glass and push them off. Going that far out is not dangerous for her, because Launch Star.

Also Up Smash has deceptively good range. It actually covers slightly behind her, which many people don't realise. She can also chase people to the top blast zone with Up Air.

I just have never found I actually needed Luma against Mega Man.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Would it also be suitable to ask if I could get any matches in against an actual good Rosalina player since I haven't had the chance to run into one (I could only witness mechanics and try and theorize how MUs would go). She's so...unused online when I do For Glory D :

 

[MrHomelessHobo]

Honestly Rosalina has too many strengths and not that many weaknesses, shes not broken but a bit over powered.

 

[Steam]

In terms of counters for Rosalina, ZSS and Lucario seem like the safest right now. Ness has potential against her too, though it's risky since Rosalina can eat his recovery for breakfast. I also think regular Mario is good against her in the right hands.

And yeah, in theory, forcing Rosalina to approach is impossible. She can down B your projectiles, and if you don't have projectiles, she has Luma to send out as a sort of "projectile". She never actually HAS to do the approaching herself if she really doesn't want to.

Rosalina dunks lucario as he has no answer for a lot of her stuff in neutral. Namely her nair with luma on her.

 

[GoldWindRequiem]

Yet Little Mac having insane super armour despite also having insane dodging ability and a OHKO move that goes through shields is OK? And said super armour makes it really easy for him to build up his power meter due to it allowing him to take and a deal a hit at the same time?

At least Luma can be separated from Rosalina to prevent him from being used in cunning ways, can't seperate Mac from his super armour and it takes absolutely no thought to use and is the result of many "...oh, I won?" moments for Mac players.

If you think Little Mac is OP, you just haven't used Wario against him yet.

 

[PedroSmashFan2014]

I'm saying her offense and defense are both good. She can shut people down by playing defensively but I was just saying she doesn't really have to.

I don't really see any counterpick for Rosalina. She has the advantage over every character.

Again, I'm not saying she's unbeatable, but you're always going to be at a disadvantage.

Unless you play as Rosalina and I as Pikachu(not sure if I can beat her with Pikachu...)

 

[ChikoLad]

Would it also be suitable to ask if I could get any matches in against an actual good Rosalina player since I haven't had the chance to run into one (I could only witness mechanics and try and theorize how MUs would go). She's so...unused online when I do For Glory D :

I can do this if you want, sometime.

 

[ooglefart]

She's the 3rd lightest character in the game so use that to your advantage. I've had trouble with matchups against really good charizard players because of this.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

She's the 3rd lightest character in the game so use that to your advantage. I've had trouble with matchups against really good charizard players because of this.

Actually, Rosalina is the 4th lightest, as she's heavier than Kirby, Mr. G&W, and Jigglypuff.

 

[aethermaster]

I kind of wish she was more like the Ice Climbers in that if Luma got KO'd it would stay KO'd until Rosalina dies and comes back rather than it reappearing. That would have made Rosalina down two moves and range.

 

[Yung Nikey]

INTERCEPT HER 3RD JUMP BY ANY MEANS

 

[Warlock*G]

Would it also be suitable to ask if I could get any matches in against an actual good Rosalina player since I haven't had the chance to run into one (I could only witness mechanics and try and theorize how MUs would go). She's so...unused online when I do For Glory D :

Same thing here. Can any Rosalina bash my face in already?

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm up for playing with anyone who wants to practice against a Rosalina. I'm no pro or anything but I have a solid understanding of the character (I would be practicing more ATs and stuff but I want to wait for the Wii U version for that, plus I have been busy 100%'ing the 3DS game when I am offline).

 

[Warlock*G]

I'm up for playing with anyone who wants to practice against a Rosalina. I'm no pro or anything but I have a solid understanding of the character (I would be practicing more ATs and stuff but I want to wait for the Wii U version for that, plus I have been busy 100%'ing the 3DS game when I am offline).

Alright, I'll add you (let's pray that the Atlantic doesn't **** up the connection though... I live in Québec, Canada).

 

[Iron Kraken]

Same thing here. Can any Rosalina bash my face in already?

Would it also be suitable to ask if I could get any matches in against an actual good Rosalina player since I haven't had the chance to run into one (I could only witness mechanics and try and theorize how MUs would go). She's so...unused online when I do For Glory D :

Same thing here. Can any Rosalina bash my face in already?

Another Rosalina here, I'll play you guys.

I'm no pro or anything. In fact, prior to when I got the Smash 3DS last month, the only Smash Bros game I had even played at all for the past decade or so was Smash 64 with my group of (casual) friends. I played very little of Brawl before I gave it up because I liked Smash 64 a lot more.

But anywayyy... I think my Rosalina is pretty solid. I definitely know the character, so I should put up pretty good practice for you guys.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

With the ice climbers, kill nana, and that's it.
Kill luma, another one comes in like no time at all.
So what do I do? I literally can't understand what to do, I kill Luma, rosalina air dodges all day, goes to ledge, and gets luma back (uhg)
I can't punish her up special cause the stupid ledge grab makes it so she grabs the ledge imidiatly and it cancels the rest of the up special.
I'm posting this cause I want HELP not requesting a nerf, and if you say something like
"You just suck"
"Play better"
I swear I'll report you to authorities: NO FLAMING
if you wanna help me out by playing some practicing online, that will be extremely helpful! Thanks!

 

[iiGGYxD]

Rosalina's biggest weakness while recovering is that she is pretty vulnerable to attack. don't wait for her to grab the edge, if you know the rosa is going for the ledge jump off and hit her out of her recovery. Of course, she can just recover again and that is where you keep smacking her for all the free % you can get until she either sds, you get the gimp, or she makes it past your guard.

As far as how to deal with her on stage, that would depend on the character. Are you asking from a captain falcon's perspective?

 

[InfinityZERO]

Rosalina has a really bad coming down from the air game if she is launched up. Dair and Nair aren't good for coming down. Also if you play with someone with a weird projectile (T/Link, Mario, Dr. Mario, ROB, ZSS, etc) Gravitational Pull is pretty useless. GP takes too long to come out and finish so those projectiles screw with Luma, especially at a medium distance.

I know that doesn't help with Falcon, but those are some weaknesses. I'd say that Falcon Kick, Punch, Raptor Boost, Bair (the landing lag is bad) are basically useless against her. Don't pummel her when you grab, go straight from Dthrow into your aerial combo.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

I play Falcon And Samus :3

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina has a really bad coming down from the air game if she is launched up. Dair and Nair aren't good for coming down. Also if you play with someone with a weird projectile (T/Link, Mario, Dr. Mario, ROB, ZSS, etc) Gravitational Pull is pretty useless. GP takes too long to come out and finish so those projectiles screw with Luma, especially at a medium distance.

N-Air is actually great for coming down if you use it while moving to the side of your opponent. It shifts her hurtbox to dodge the attack, and swings back on top of the opponent.

In general, I disagree with her having a tough time coming down, it's not that hard if you play smart. Her air dodge is an amazing asset for this because of the warping effect, you can play some serious mind games with it.

Also GP is totally fine against all of the characters you listed there (sans ZSS). With ROB in particular, using GP on his Gyros makes Rosalina the owner of them. Even if you don't pick them up he can still take damage from them, and if you catch them with GP the moment he's firing them, he will take damage from them then too. GP forces an approach if people are trying to zone you too, no matter the projectile, and you can plan around that. This tactic is especially effective when Rosalina is a stock above or there is a huge damage percent gap in Rosalina's favour (since the opponent has to act in the former or else they will lose to time, and in the latter, it's easy to draw them in for a KO).

Toon Link is probably the most solid character in general against her though. The match up is completely even in my opinion. Toon Link can counter all of Rosalina's strengths, and vice versa.

 

[icraq]

Toon Link is probably the most solid character in general against her though. The match up is completely even in my opinion. Toon Link can counter all of Rosalina's strengths, and vice versa.

i think with tlink's bomb cancel getting removed this will be slightly less in his favor, part of my issue with him was just the shear amount of projectiles, without the bomb cancel it'll slow it down quite a bit. still gonna be tough, but not as bad.

 

[ChikoLad]

i think with tlink's bomb cancel getting removed this will be slightly less in his favor, part of my issue with him was just the shear amount of projectiles, without the bomb cancel it'll slow it down quite a bit. still gonna be tough, but not as bad.

Yeah that is true, but I feel Peach (another interesting match up for Rosalina, it can definitely go either way) is going to be hit MUCH harder by that than the Links, as it was much more central to her playstyle.

 

[icraq]

Yeah that is true, but I feel Peach (another interesting match up for Rosalina, it can definitely go either way) is going to be hit MUCH harder by that than the Links, as it was much more central to her playstyle.

yeah, I still don't know what beats Peach's floating dair approach really, usmash probably? utilt i think clanks on dair.. still, peach is a pain. doesn't help i never really fight good peaches, the one i have run into on a ladder completely stomped me.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Using projectiles at close range is definitely an issue that Rosalina has, as she can't react quickly enough to counter the projectile if it's executed right at her face. Dealing with Robin's projectiles can also be a pain, simply because they can execute faster than Rosalina can even prepare Gravitational Pull for. Before you know it, it's too late, and Rosalina will take a big blow.

At least Bowser Jr.'s projectiles are much more predictable, as they take too long to execute, giving Rosalina enough time to counter them.

 

[icraq]

Using projectiles at close range is definitely an issue that Rosalina has, as she can't react quickly enough to counter the projectile if it's executed right at her face.

how about a running SH GP to close in distance on projecitle users? you can perform an autocanceled luma aerial on landing with that, too. i've had a little bit of success doing that when i absolutely knew my opponent was going to use a projectile. that way you can actually hit your opponent with their projectile, like villagre's lloid, diddy's banana will trip him whilst it's circling around you, stuff like that.

 

[speedguy20]

That's a bad thing. Defensive play is boring in a fighting game.

You really don't have to play defensively with Rosalina though, because she outprioritizes everything with or without Luma. Truly a horribly balanced character.

That's why it is a good idea to main a rushdown character like Shiek, Zamus, or even Marth. The trick that I find to work a lot is to force the Rosalina player to grab you and punish that hard.

 

[Kinslayer]

Rosalina is known to be, let's say, unpunishable, while Luma is nearby. Either grab and immediately throw (pummel can also hit Luma), or separate Luma first.



If you hit Rosalina at any other time than when Luma is beside her, she cannot prevent you from following up.



Luma is great but he's not really broken. Smart Rosalina players will put him to work, but the fact he can be knocked off easily and moving him finely requires Rosalina to commit to attacks herself (leaving her open should Luma be surmounted) is what balances it.



It's not, the former is merely a sub category of the latter.

I think you're leaving out then part where only some grabs/throws hit rosa and luma. For example Marth can't throw her at all because none of is throws hit the pair together, same for pummel. Luma is kinda broken as he is for because he removes a lot of options when it comes to fighting rosa, he also can hit while she can't, and he only takes 8 seconds to respawn. Stuff like that combined with his ability to do air borne smashes, a pizza cutter hitbox on his jab, and things of that nature make him really really good.

I'm sorry but I've seen it one too many times where rosa gets hit off the stage and is helpless potentially dying or even getting star ko'd but luma still punishes the person who hit her in their recovery frames.

i think with tlink's bomb cancel getting removed this will be slightly less in his favor, part of my issue with him was just the shear amount of projectiles, without the bomb cancel it'll slow it down quite a bit. still gonna be tough, but not as bad.

Also on a side note Who said bomb cancel was getting removed?