How can you reliably connect with Lucas' bair meteor hitbox?

[EarthBoundEnigma]

Project M hitboxes via [x]

"Back Air Attack – This powerful kick has a meteor effect. Try to hit with Lucas’s knee for the best result!"
- In-game Tip Screen SSB Wii U/3DS​

Lucas' back air has a sweetspot with a meteor effect.
Let's discuss how to execute it more reliably and what good set-ups can lead into it.

The meteor hitbox is active for the entire duration of the attack, but it is not always clear which hitbox will connect.
Below you will see two back air attacks land near the same frame timing, for illustration.

If you have Google Chrome, click the options button on the video and set the speed to 0.25x to better see the frames of animation.

 

[PK Drako]

I tried to locate the sweetspot of bair.
When i get the spike is at the start of the bair hitting with the tip of Lucas foot and at the end with the hexagon of psi energy of the move.

Maybe i should test more.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

This sounds like it contradicts with the game's tip, doesn't it? Lucas' knee isn't his foot, nor his hip, nor is it far from either of these two things. If his leg is straight, how does he hit with the knee without hitting with the foot or hip at the same time?

 

[PK Drako]

This sounds like it contradicts with the game's tip, doesn't it? Lucas' knee isn't his foot, nor his hip, nor is it far from either of these two things. If his leg is straight, how does he hit with the knee without hitting with the foot or hip at the same time?

Well that's true...
So... Objection!
The sweetspot is at the tip of the foot at the end but at the start it's most like between the foot and the knew.
I've been trying in training mode for hours with half of the speed and i tried over and over again. I always spike when i hit with the tip of the foot i tried to hit with the knee and sometimes it spikes but it's not more stronger i think. And i also tried to hit bair with body, but it only knocks them away.
I can be wrong with that so if someone has other opinion or whatever i would like to read it.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I would really like to know this too. There are situations when I want to get the sour spot as well so I can continue a combo chain.

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

Well that's true...
So... Objection!
The sweetspot is at the tip of the foot at the end but at the start it's most like between the foot and the knee.
[...]

Im pretty sure you're right about the sweetspot being at the tip of his foot at the end, but im not 100% on the latter.

Watch in 0.25 speed, only the hexagon touched links foot. This move has been troublesome to understand fully hah!

 

[JosePollo]

Id=0x0 is the hitbox closest to Lucas's body, given its x-coordinate value in comparison to the others. Has an angle of 361 (sakurai angle) so it'll always launch opponents at a 45-degree angle.

Id=0x1 changes the x-coordinate to 4.5, meaning it's moved away from his body for however many units the size of the actual hitbox covers. 118 angle translated means 280, so this is the meteor hitbox and it has VERY high base knock back (5a = 90), so it'll be meteoring at fairly early percentages.

Id=0x2 is a little strange in that it's completely overlapped by the meteor hitbox. A lower Id number means higher priority, so the meteor hitbox will always win out if both hitboxes are touching the opponent. Which is a little strange given that the angle for this hitbox is 169 (361), so what that probably means is that Id=0x1 is specifically meant for airborne opponents, and Id=0x2 will always be the one that hits grounded opponents, which makes sense because his back air will never meteor someone into the air if they're grounded.

Id=0x3 is the furthest removed from his body (x-coordinate of 8.0), has the least damage and knockback, with a 361 launch angle. This is basically the sour spot, and is slightly overlapped by Id=0x1, which is probably what happened in the video above where it looks like Link is being hit with the tip of his foot, but he was probably in that spot where Id=0x1 and Id=0x3 overlapped, so the meteor hitbox took priority. I THINK...
EDIT: Looking back at the frame data, the displacement of 0x3 4.0 units away from 0x1 and the 3.5 size of the hitbox probably means they don't actually overlap, but are directly adjacent to each other.

Btw, all these hitboxes are active at the same time, so there's no staling on this move the longer it's out. The meteor will meteor as hard at frame 21 as it will at frame 15, so it doesn't matter whether you hit at the start of the move, or at the end. The meteor hitbox also happens to be the largest hitbox on the move, so it's actually not very hard to land, just happens to be squeezed in between his body and the tip of his foot/the space slightly beyond the tip of his foot, so... basically his leg/knee/ankle area, as the in-game tip suggests... although I can't explain to you why that meteor in the video happened. I could just be completely wrong, or the hitboxes are a LOT larger than I'm thinking they are. The best way I can describe this move is... janky.

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

Great research man!

 

[JosePollo]

Ok, so hopefully for the last time.

Here is a representation (****ty) of where I believe the four hitboxes on back air are positioned, complete with labels and launch angles.

And here they are as they'd be prioritized. As you can see 0x0 eats into 0x1/0x2's hitbox, so the meteor hitbox is actually a little smaller, in practice, than the frame data implies. To land the back air meteor all you need to do is avoid hitting with the central part of his body. It doesn't matter if the opponent is hitting the sour spot as long as the meteor hitbox is also making contact. If you want to extend a combo using the 45° launch, hit as close to Lucas's body as possible, or as far away from his foot as possible.

 

[DMWN]

From what I've witnessed, as long as the hitbox centered around the tip of his foot is the first one connecting, it'll meteor. From testing in-game, it always meteors whenever the alternately-colored part of his shoe is the first part of his foot connecting. I'll research this more later.

 

[Lunacywastaken]

From my experience, his sweet-spots for his b-air are:
- At beginning of the move when he starts his back-flip, at the tip of his feet
- At the end of the move when he ends his back-flip, at the tip of his feet
I have been getting consistent spikes with this in mind.

 

[JosePollo]

From my experience, his sweet-spots for his b-air are:
- At beginning of the move when he starts his back-flip, at the tip of his feet
- At the end of the move when he ends his back-flip, at the tip of his feet
I have been getting consistent spikes with this in mind.

All of the hitboxes are active from 15-20 simultaneously, so the meteor will hit at any point during the arc. It all comes down to how you space the move. Too close to his body and you'll hit the 9% damage hitbox, too far and you'll hit with the 7% damage sourspot. Also, the hitboxes seem to start directly above Lucas, BEFORE the hexagons even appear for the animation, as I've been able to hit people completely above Lucas, rather than above and diagonally from him as the animation would suggest.