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Houston Smash Ultimate Thread
- Thread starter Xyro77
- Start date
GaiustheThief
Smash Ace
You guys are a riot man
Zori
Smash Champion
Ct is your phone off???
Sync.
Smash Champion
Yeah ****** can crash here. Also, DLC announced Azumarill as playable and Kilik as playable
RunC.T.
Smash Apprentice
no, I lost it bro. deactivated it instantly. come over if you're not busy yo.
RT
Smash Hero
Gonna steal my bag of chips again.
Zori
Smash Champion
welp gg, it's finals week so the next couple of days are deleted for me but ill try to see what I can do
Zori
Smash Champion
being able to ledge trump is better then a degree
deal with it RT
deal with it RT
Sync.
Smash Champion
Anyone going to Apex? I'm going to be looking into securing a room for Houston but I need to know who's coming. If you have any interest, contact me and we'll talk about it.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Def not going
alex mora
Smash Ace
Sync, im pretty set on going for Melee/Smash 4 im just waiting to see who else will be willing to carpool/fly there and split a room. If you wanna talk more about this let me know
UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
Lol Allan I just think you're not paying this game right. You even say you can't figure out what to do and you thinking you need top 5 or high tier in this game shows it.
Teshie U
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2013
- Messages
- 1,594
Unfortunately, your playstyle is pretty nerfed without some of those things yes. You just have to adapt and accept that this IS a different game. Learn how to use all of these new aspects to your advantage.
People not falling off of platforms can be a good thing for your shield pressure (if your character has any). Shield breaks are definitely a thing in this game and its often worse to be stuck in place than to be pushed off.
Good projectiles games aren't simplified to being super safe while running away.
^Tbh, the fact that you don't understand the game yet is a big reason I feel you need to listen to us about the stages. I know you think I'm just complaining, but honestly ask the people you would trust most on this. If Gnes, RT, Sync, Trela, Razer and OoC players like Denti are all warning you about issues, there might be a problem.
Gnes and I played on coliseum and it almost completely came down to grabbing each other and backthrowing off the walkoff (Sonic vs Shulk).
Many of the stages just emphasize the problem with running only 7 minutes per match. We were literally timing out in doubles on some of these stages.
RT
Smash Hero
Pretty much what Tesh says.
This is why walkoffs are a problem in this game imo. It's that they are too big. This game is meant to be played for 4+ players more so than any other Smash game, so when you try to fit a 4+ player map in a 1v1 match, it causes timeout issues. Again, I've played with people in friendlies on these stages over the weekend, and matches were either close to going OR did go to time even though neither of us were actively trying to time each other out.
This is why walkoffs are a problem in this game imo. It's that they are too big. This game is meant to be played for 4+ players more so than any other Smash game, so when you try to fit a 4+ player map in a 1v1 match, it causes timeout issues. Again, I've played with people in friendlies on these stages over the weekend, and matches were either close to going OR did go to time even though neither of us were actively trying to time each other out.
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Sync.
Smash Champion
Yeah all of us have been testing out the tournament legal stages and some of them are looking problematic. The timer needs to be increased for sure and walk off stages taken off.
Teshie U
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2013
- Messages
- 1,594
Huh? no I'm not saying size has any effect on walkoffs at all.
Walkoffs are bad because it turns the game into sudden death very often. Once you have a stock lead (no matter how narrow it is), you can just sit at the edge of the world and "next hit kills" for both sides. It invalidates the other 2/3 of the game.
As far as size, some stages don't have a major issue outside of it. Skyloft was a stage that was overall tame but 3 times the size it needed to be. Wuhu island is also looking to be the same way.
Now I'll tell you one of things I found most exciting about water being added to brawl (and returning in smash 4) was the possibility of having a way of saving recoveries without people abusing a very close blastzone you can shield next to. Sadly we never got a stage that was just a floating island (in water) like this.
However we DO still have a stage with a walkoff that can't really be camped. YI
ipes is a good , SMALL stage that gives unique counterpicking options that don't break the game. The walkoff can't really be camped because of the slopes and it still makes bad recoveries as functional as they would ever need to be. Small stages are the ones that actually buff characters bad at killing, as it turns easier kills into something more universal.
Walkoffs are bad because it turns the game into sudden death very often. Once you have a stock lead (no matter how narrow it is), you can just sit at the edge of the world and "next hit kills" for both sides. It invalidates the other 2/3 of the game.
As far as size, some stages don't have a major issue outside of it. Skyloft was a stage that was overall tame but 3 times the size it needed to be. Wuhu island is also looking to be the same way.
Now I'll tell you one of things I found most exciting about water being added to brawl (and returning in smash 4) was the possibility of having a way of saving recoveries without people abusing a very close blastzone you can shield next to. Sadly we never got a stage that was just a floating island (in water) like this.
However we DO still have a stage with a walkoff that can't really be camped. YI
ipes is a good , SMALL stage that gives unique counterpicking options that don't break the game. The walkoff can't really be camped because of the slopes and it still makes bad recoveries as functional as they would ever need to be. Small stages are the ones that actually buff characters bad at killing, as it turns easier kills into something more universal.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Mad cuz bad
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Of course im not playing right. its a new and potentially worse game than its predecessor. until i can find someone that i like and that is not dog poo i doubt ill enjoy this game.
And yeah You do need top 5 if you wish to be part of the elite. When you go to a few EC events and realize what real diddy/rosalina/greninja/sheik/sonics are, you will come back and admit falcon isnt top 5 and that you need a better character. You are winning now strictly because you have your basics down (reading/predicting/spacing/timing..etc), bread and butter combos down, great mentality.....ect. This all works at the beginning (i saw it happen in brawl too with the melee gen players) but eventually you will get passed up unless you pick a better char. Go play people close to your skill/that use GOOD characters and you will lose. I know what i am talking about i am 99% right on everything i say. Time always proves it true.
edit: you lose to shulk and robin lol and they aint even top 5.
I refuse to go top 5 (aka easy character mode) in this game. If i can find a character that isnt top 5 and isnt annihilated by the top 5 and isnt ****ing so popular id love this game.
Im used to that. Every game my characters either lose stuff or the game makes them lose stuff. I always adapt to the new game and become better than i was at the old game. This is the first time where i literally pick up characters i know a lot about (melee marth/brawl samus/ssb64 falcon) and dont know what to do. Everything done in previous games does not work here. Its like you are use to driving a bike (ssb64) and then a motorcycle (melee) and then a car(brawl) and finally you are now asked to drive a horse+buggy (smash 4).
Transitioning from smash 1 to smash 2 i had to relearn everything but it wasn't too bad because i had MORE options to deal with. I learned pretty fast because the tools were there.
Transitioning from smash 2 to 3 i had to relearn everything and it was rough because i lost all top tier mobility options (WaveDash/L-canceling) but the ledge abuse and easier shield poking helped counter that in a way. Rough but def doable. I pretty much lost tools but gained others that were equal or kinda equal.
Hell, even playing PM took me 4 tries and i can do almost anything i want.
Going from Smash 3 to 4 i have literally lost everything i had in smash 1, 2 and 3. Yeah we "gained" things but i feel there is only a "gain" if the overall game has more "gains" than losses and so far this game has lost tons more than gained when compared to any of the previous smash titles. I like Marth/Lucina but Marth/Lucina=sucks. The dudes cant even double fair WTF. I love my green lesbian but holy F Samus=super sucks. The bich cant even zair through platforms correctly nor missile cancel HOLY F. Palutena is fun but she isnt good either. We literally MUST pick top/high characters if we want to succeed. I know you dont agree but you will see in time. I dont like this ****.
Besides, i dont know what to learn.
Samus for example....
Cons (losses)
1. Shooting missiles is a waste because you cannot cancel them (nerfed from brawl)
2. Zair cant go through platforms at times and ONLY hits at a specific point when used to go through a stage (nerfed from brawl)
3. Falling U-air to jab/smash/up+B (a staple samus set-up) doesnt work because Uair doesnt shield poke (nerfed from brawl)
4. Any and all "attack from the ledge more than once" ledge play is non existent because of the new ledge mechanics (nerfed from brawl)
5. dtilt cant kill now (nerfed even more from brawl)
6. jab cancel is gone. (nerfed from brawl)
7. cant re-tether for an invincible ledge hog because of the new garbage ledge mechanics. (nerfed from brawl)
Pros (gains that are actually still losses)
1. jab is faster. oh wait, still doesnt combo in a game where nearly every character has a jab that combos.
2. ftilt is faster. of wait, brawl shielding system is still in so f-tilts are easily punishable if placed on a shield
3. f-smash has more range
4. dsmash kills horizontally now. of wait, it does less knockback/damage and thus an f-smash is a better option
5. up+B kills
6. zair finally refreshes staled moves
7. pivot tilt but since its a defensive move that can be powershielded.
8. charge shot is good.
So basically she gained nothing USEFUL but lost everything that made her good. How can ANYONE do well with this cup of cat piss?
Those ^ have there uses for sure but unless the shield breaks, none of those are better than knocking someone off a platform or ledge and punishing that.
True and dumb. 64/melee/brawl all had it but now all the sudden its gone. **** game
It takes a lot less understanding to see stages and how they work than it does about characters.
I legit dont know how to play a garbage game. But stages are stages are also stages. It is you people who do not know what counter picking means and you people do not know what the beginning of a game is like compared to its terrible end. You will thank me years from now (assumign you have not given up) and thank me for allowing so many stages when the game wasnt as "cheap" as it will turn out to be.
As always, i am right about 99% of the things i do. you will understand later. in the mean time, just play the game and get good on the stages.
timing out and/or back throwing on a stage with a walkoff is just another aspect of the term "counter picking." Nothing wring with this.
The timer will NEVER be extended.
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
i really hope that is the truth^ cause id truly hate it if this game (waited 3 years for it) is the actual garbage that i am thinking it to be. i WANT to be able to say "ok its not the game, its me." Cause then that way ill be able to learn Samus (or whoever i want) and play them any way i want with success eventually.
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UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
Lol I'll just say I'm not switching to those top tiers you listed cause I don't enjoy them.
Anyways, signs are pointing to you right now instead of the game as your issue.
Anyways, signs are pointing to you right now instead of the game as your issue.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
You and I both know you wont be on the Falcon+morton train once you taste the succulent EC top tier nerds. Falcon is much lower than brawl snake and its gonna get to you.
I literally listed things about samus that have NOTHING to do with me.
PokemonyeWest
Smash Journeyman
relevant
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UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
I'm not going Diddy, Sheik, Rosa, Greninja or Yoshi lol.
Literally just read your own posts.
Maniak
Smash Apprentice
Xyro77 I enjoy the game alot so I cant relate to the feels you have. Yes the edge game is changed a lot now people ledge trump etc. Since the normal gimping is out. Shoot fox cant even shine spike anymore 
. I enjoy the game because Fox still has jab cancels and good combos. He can even jab cancel into throws, down smash etc. This Fox is not melee Fox at all but in the context of smash 4 I consider him high tier. I just know that habits of old dont work but thats what leads to new tech and exploration. Shoot never had a use for Fox's forward tilt before but now it combos to upsmash at higher percents.
I came from a Street Fighter background where every version was completely different and things had to be relearned with each iteration. I love SF4 and it was considered the most watered down version of the game at first but so much new tech is discovered everyday that people scream for the nerf bat because new tech is so good. Yes unblockables and vortex game arent fun for the other players but tech can be found in even the most ''watered down'' of a series. I hope you find a character that feels good to you and lets you enjoy the game like I am. I know Im not alone in enjoying this game. I just went in knowing it was a totally different game and just used my SF mindset.
Hey Xyro77 have you tried zero suite samus?
. I enjoy the game because Fox still has jab cancels and good combos. He can even jab cancel into throws, down smash etc. This Fox is not melee Fox at all but in the context of smash 4 I consider him high tier. I just know that habits of old dont work but thats what leads to new tech and exploration. Shoot never had a use for Fox's forward tilt before but now it combos to upsmash at higher percents. I came from a Street Fighter background where every version was completely different and things had to be relearned with each iteration. I love SF4 and it was considered the most watered down version of the game at first but so much new tech is discovered everyday that people scream for the nerf bat because new tech is so good. Yes unblockables and vortex game arent fun for the other players but tech can be found in even the most ''watered down'' of a series. I hope you find a character that feels good to you and lets you enjoy the game like I am. I know Im not alone in enjoying this game. I just went in knowing it was a totally different game and just used my SF mindset.
Hey Xyro77 have you tried zero suite samus?
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
ZS is another high tier than lots of people pick. I don't wanna be just another ZS user.
Allen, remember when I said, "I realllly want to see how you'll enjoy this game" before the wiiu version even came out..
My advice is to take it as casually as you can and create your own fun. The more we compare it to previous smash games, the less happier we'll be with it lol. Alot of the things we loved are just gone, sad thing for you
is that you can't play Melee forever
My advice is to take it as casually as you can and create your own fun. The more we compare it to previous smash games, the less happier we'll be with it lol. Alot of the things we loved are just gone, sad thing for you
is that you can't play Melee forever
Maniak
Smash Apprentice
Dont be just another ZSS player....be the best ZSS player
. People pick her because of her speed etc. but I havent seen any ZSS that wow me. Be that guy!!! Screw everyone else!!!If this was Melee I would get hated on for picking Fox. I wouldnt care either way. I find him fun and feels good to me. Find a character that feels good to you no matter where they fall in the tier list. Have fun that's what these games are for. ''a party game'' - Sakurai....Just kidding
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♫ Zura ♫
Smash Journeyman
*Inserts pokemom theme*
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
you clearly didnt because i didnt include yoshi in the top 5.
regardless, i think i know you well enough to where i know you wont sit back and stay a character that gets you losses. in time, you will pick a top 5 character (whoever that may be)
Yeah i remember and now you are seeing it. I HATE IT.Allen, remember when I said, "I realllly want to see how you'll enjoy this game" before the wiiu version even came out..
My advice is to take it as casually as you can and create your own fun. The more we compare it to previous smash games, the less happier we'll be with it lol. Alot of the things we loved are just gone, sad thing for you
is that you can't play Melee forever
I know lots of things are gone
i see it every time i turn this garage game on. What i cant figure out is how to "create my own fun" with such a limited tool set that has been placed on all these characters. Samus has nothing. Palutena (though fun) is going to get wrecked hard once people know what she has and goes top tier. I truly feels like brawl all over again in that respect.
alex mora
Smash Ace
some early 3DS ZSS's in Japan were really impressive but i havent heard much from the Japanese scene since Smash 4 came out on wii u.Dont be just another ZSS player....be the best ZSS player
If this was Melee I would get hated on for picking Fox. I wouldnt care either way. I find him fun and feels good to me. Find a character that feels good to you no matter where they fall in the tier list. Have fun that's what these games are for. ''a party game'' - Sakurai....Just kidding
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
I have a kid, job, potential GF, building a new tournament series, college and a W_H_O_R_E ex-wife who drains me of money. I dont have time to be the best ZS or the best *insert popular top/high tier*. Especially when new ZS or other top/high tier pop up weekly who i would then have to fight/compete with to keep my rank.Dont be just another ZSS player....be the best ZSS player
If this was Melee I would get hated on for picking Fox. I wouldnt care either way. I find him fun and feels good to me. Find a character that feels good to you no matter where they fall in the tier list. Have fun that's what these games are for. ''a party game'' - Sakurai....Just kidding
In brawl, no one wanted to be Samus and i only had to worry about school/work. So being the best with Samus wasnt too hard and the times it was i just put in a bit more work and boom i was fine. Those days are over so now im trying to make due with what i have.
PS: i dont know if this is a pride issue or not but i HATE being a character and not being in the top 3 of that character. it feels like a huge waste of time.
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Maniak
Smash Apprentice
I feel you on all of what your saying Im about to be 33 Im a father a husband and work in the engineering field and now am going back to school to get my degree in engineering. I have no time to ever be the best Fox in this game. I hate saying that because in everything I do I want to be the best ever since I was young. Now that Im older I want to be the best damn engineer I can be, that's my main goal now. This gaming thing is now a fun time to get out of the house and have some fun competing against others. I just realized being the best at life ends up being the most important. Taking care of your loved ones and providing is what motivates me to be the best now. Everything else should be fun. I just love playing and enjoy it. I hope you find joy in this game cause I need people to play with soon. Finals are almost here and I will be able to play soon.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
I agree with all of this except the fun part. I dont have fun losing to garbage players or because the game is garbage. I want my time/effort/practice rewarded. brawl didnt do that and so i had to get use to it. i though smash 4 would be a mix between melee and brawl but its more of brawl and something worse. i dont know if i can handle another 6 years of this garbage.
Maniak
Smash Apprentice
I can understand time is valuable. Give all of the cast a test no matter potential tiers. Remember tiers are just opinion. This game is too new to really know who is where in the tiers. New tech changes everything. Pick who you enjoy because in the end it would be a waste of your valuable time to pick a character you do not enjoy and also just plain sucks.
Sync.
Smash Champion
Allan you're putting unnecessary and unrealistic goals in your life for this game. Just pick a character regardless of what other people do because you enjoy them. I don't know what brings you enjoyment, but pick whatever character does it. Who cares if you're another xyz character main or not, just care about your own fun and not give a **** about other people labeling you as such things as a generic player. You're putting random pressure on yourself and letting pride get in the way of you having fun. If you're not playing this game for fun, you shouldn't be playing it at all. You shouldn't be doing any hobby that isn't fun for you even if it is a habit that you've had for years.
Edit: Maniak seems like a pretty tight dude lmao
Edit: Maniak seems like a pretty tight dude lmao
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
being top 3 of my character is fun ( honestly dont get why any real competitive player would settle for anything less unless they dont care about being remembered or respected). THAT is why i kept playing melee/brawl. it cant be done with any high/top tier in smash 4 because of the nonstop work it requires due to how many people there are to beat/keep up with. i cant do all that with my "life" schedule/requirements. so now its more about settling and so far nothing is sticking out.
trust me, i wont pick someone who i DISLIKE. the lowest ill go is some one who i "kinda like"I can understand time is valuable. Give all of the cast a test no matter potential tiers. Remember tiers are just opinion. This game is too new to really know who is where in the tiers. New tech changes everything. Pick who you enjoy because in the end it would be a waste of your valuable time to pick a character you do not enjoy and also just plain sucks.
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