Holy crap japan... haha wow.

[Fatmanonice]

This thread seems like a Japan vs USA thread so voicing your opinion in any form pretty much guarentees that you'll be flamed... Nationalism, funny stuff.

 

[HK Donut of the Blue Fire]

wow that was sick, not even the best in my team, or group of friends can move, or do any of that stuff efficiently!!

 

[Grunt]

It was entertaining. But then after watching the video again, I realized: Both of them are running into obvious set-ups and don't even seem to care. Maybe that's why Western smash matches are so boring. We DO care. If its advantageous to camp, roll spam, etc we do it.

i dont care what anyone says, this guy is absolutely right.

 

[BrawlBro]

i dont care what anyone says, this guy is absolutely right.

perhaps you could also add a reason or put an argument behind that instead of blatanly stateing opinion?

 

[RBNuke]

perhaps you could also add a reason or put an argument behind that instead of blatanly stateing opinion?

Fox ate a dozen shines and bairs that he wouldn't have eaten if he hadn't been impulsively bouncing at the other guy. Likewise, the falco approached fox from below way too many times and got punished pretty much every time.

Oh, and also when one of them would start advancing with RARing or sex kicks the other could have perfect shielded and got a free smash in, but opted to short hop right into it. And as fast as that match appeared to go, it probably would have been over faster if either of the characters had used at least a little more ground play.

It was pretty and flashy, though. A relief to watch some people putting on a show when they play, but not optimal for winning.

 

[PieM4ster]

As has been said b4, a lot of things were done just to look cool. Specifically, they ate each others attacks a lot, and didn't do a good job blocking. The worst example of the flashiness was when Falco chain grabbed Fox, but decided to hit him after every grab, taking away one grab from himself and doing about 5-7 less damage as a result. Small but noticeable.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

This thread needs far less KameKasu and more godSSbb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-IN-ydEVt8 - More careful gameplay here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGH2mAE7K2c

He has more videos. They still play aggressively, but try to do so in such a way to put pressure on the opponent often.

 

[old king coal]

although camping/spamming may be effective, they were still good at what they did. maybe if this style was used in american tournaments people would not know how to handle it, just as they may not be able to handle our spam and less aggressive style of play.

everyone here still has to admit that they were very good.

 

[old king coal]

sorry accidently double posted....

 

[thepinkpoo]

This thread needs far less KameKasu and more godSSbb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-IN-ydEVt8 - More careful gameplay here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGH2mAE7K2c

He has more videos. They still play aggressively, but try to do so in such a way to put pressure on the opponent often.

you know that ness peach video is on kamekasu's youtube too, right? you mean there needs to be less zentore/nyosuke stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPv6fk5z_Go

see, same video. its from the japanese tournament.

 

[Oh Snap]

It was entertaining. But then after watching the video again, I realized: Both of them are running into obvious set-ups and don't even seem to care. Maybe that's why Western smash matches are so boring. We DO care. If its advantageous to camp, roll spam, etc we do it.

I agree.

Maybe 'cause a lot of American smashers are playing to win (the money) and the best way to win is to play defensively.

 

[wazgood]

wait... i think zentore is captain jack!
here is boss8 linking us to a captain jack video: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166538
which is the same as this match between zentore and nyosuke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8WZySNYqS4&feature=related

so i will bet money that the fox player is 10X better than you at melee =]

 

[kamekasu]

GodSSbb is NOT CaptainJack. Somebody claimed this as a joke in some thread, so I asked CJ and he said he had not put any videos on YouTube, nor had he even created a YouTube account. The only Brawl videos CaptainJack has made are on my YouTube account.

Please do not confuse my account for a Zentore VS Nyosuke playlist. There are other, better, more serious, tournament matches you can watch there. I think it's funny how few people in this thread understood Zentore and Nyosuke's skill level until choknater pointed it out for them, and all of a sudden the same people have changed their minds.

Zentore and Nyosuke are excellent at Smash Bros., both Melee and Brawl, but they are in no way "10x better than" the US. If you're impressed with the speed of Zentore's Fox, go watch Lucien's Fox. It's just as fast, but more calculating and makes less mistakes.

Good Falcos, that are better than Nyosuke, include SKYb and Fujita. Shuu has an excellent Marth, and is definitely better than Nyosuke. There are other players other than Zentore and Nyosuke. I'm sure they would give American pros a run for their money, but there is absolutely no indication that they are better.

 

[Lovage 805]

haha. is THIS a video that makes people idolize japan's smash skills? lol

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

Please do not confuse my account for a Zentore VS Nyosuke playlist. There are other, better, more serious, tournament matches you can watch there. I think it's funny how few people in this thread understood Zentore and Nyosuke's skill level until choknater pointed it out for them, and all of a sudden the same people have changed their minds.

Sorry about that then.

http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=KameKasu - Link to non-Zentore vs. Nyosuke videos for those that are morons.

http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=godSSbb - godSSbb's videos (ignore the combo videos. They suuuuuuck, but check out some of the Captain Falcon awesomeness.)

And I never said godSSbb was Captain Jack, nor do I believe that either.

 

[metroid1117]

GodSSbb is NOT CaptainJack. Somebody claimed this as a joke in some thread, so I asked CJ and he said he had not put any videos on YouTube, nor had he even created a YouTube account. The only Brawl videos CaptainJack has made are on my YouTube account.

Please do not confuse my account for a Zentore VS Nyosuke playlist. There are other, better, more serious, tournament matches you can watch there. I think it's funny how few people in this thread understood Zentore and Nyosuke's skill level until choknater pointed it out for them, and all of a sudden the same people have changed their minds.

Zentore and Nyosuke are excellent at Smash Bros., both Melee and Brawl, but they are in no way "10x better than" the US. If you're impressed with the speed of Zentore's Fox, go watch Lucien's Fox. It's just as fast, but more calculating and makes less mistakes.

Good Falcos, that are better than Nyosuke, include SKYb and Fujita. Shuu has an excellent Marth, and is definitely better than Nyosuke. There are other players other than Zentore and Nyosuke. I'm sure they would give American pros a run for their money, but there is absolutely no indication that they are better.

@OP: You should probably copy+paste this onto the original post to stem any more "generalization" flamers.

Anyways, the matches provided by KameKasu were very entertaining; it raised one of my Melee-friend's hope for Brawl's competitive nature.

 

[Yuna]

Do Japan players have holes in the game because they play fast or do they have holes in their game despite the fact they play fast? In other words does their speed cause their faults?

You can play fast without leaving tons of gaping holes like these people. Just take a look at old Melee matches between top ranked players.

Their faults are caused by bad choices.

Glad to see these players actually use the AT "Short Hopping" why has everyone stopped doing that? Thats really the "speed" difference. A lot of idiot brawl players cant even short hop consistently and float around with full jumps which are painfully floaty and slow.

Especially when it's much easier to do in Brawl than in Melee because 1st jumps are slower!

That fact that they don't care is what made the match more fun. Flashy I'll admit with many mistakes visible but entertaining.

You say potato, I say suckfest. Because I'm a Competitive Smasher, I look at things from a Competitive standpoint. I do not find a match entertaining if it's obviously badly played.

Like if a Falcon were to 7-hit combo someone into a Knee. It'd look flashy and entertaining... unless you knew that combo is impossible if you DI, 2nd jump, airdodge, aerial and/or Up B out of it. Because then you'll know that that combo was only possible because the opponent was crap at the game.

Likewise, them walking into obvious traps shows us that they're prone to doing just that, which is bad. And a sign of bad play. And it makes it less entertaining to me. Because what it all comes down to is then a match with people who are good at spacing, timing and that's it. Bad mindgames.

Sacrificing substance for flashiness is never OK. My Peach in Melee wasn't really very flashy. She was simple and did things pretty simply. But she got the job done and took me far.

Stuff

And the one bazillion shielded aerials with a lot of lag they tried to punish with a shorthopped bair instead ofa shielddropped smash or jumpcanceled Upsmash.

although camping/spamming may be effective, they were still good at what they did. maybe if this style was used in american tournaments people would not know how to handle it, just as they may not be able to handle our spam and less aggressive style of play.

Only we would know how to handle it. It's called shieldgrabbed jabbing/tilting/smashing their ***** whenever they did one of their bazillion bad approaches.

everyone here still has to admit that they were very good.

Only they weren't really that good. Flashy? Yes. Good timing and spacing? Yeah. But that's where it ends.

wait... i think zentore is captain jack!
here is boss8 linking us to a captain jack video: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166538
which is the same as this match between zentore and nyosuke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8WZySNYqS4&feature=related

Or not. There's tons of vids of Zentore playing a whole lot of characters in a style quite foreign to CJ's play. And CJ still plays Sheik... exclusively.

GodSSbb is NOT CaptainJack. Somebody claimed this as a joke in some thread, so I asked CJ and he said he had not put any videos on YouTube, nor had he even created a YouTube account. The only Brawl videos CaptainJack has made are on my YouTube account.

Please do not confuse my account for a Zentore VS Nyosuke playlist. There are other, better, more serious, tournament matches you can watch there. I think it's funny how few people in this thread understood Zentore and Nyosuke's skill level until choknater pointed it out for them, and all of a sudden the same people have changed their minds.

Zentore and Nyosuke are excellent at Smash Bros., both Melee and Brawl, but they are in no way "10x better than" the US. If you're impressed with the speed of Zentore's Fox, go watch Lucien's Fox. It's just as fast, but more calculating and makes less mistakes.

Good Falcos, that are better than Nyosuke, include SKYb and Fujita. Shuu has an excellent Marth, and is definitely better than Nyosuke. There are other players other than Zentore and Nyosuke. I'm sure they would give American pros a run for their money, but there is absolutely no indication that they are better.

The thing is that in that match (and the Marth vs. Peach one I also watched), they both left themselves wide open way too much when going for flashy and more aggresive instead of more substance and careful play.

They weren't bad. But they weren't OMFGBBQ either. Maybe they are... just not in those two games.

@OP: You should probably copy+paste this onto the original post to stem any more "generalization" flamers.

Anyways, the matches provided by KameKasu were very entertaining; it raised one of my Melee-friend's hope for Brawl's competitive nature.

Tell him the majority of what they did was easily punished. It's just that they often opted for the wrong punish (shieldgrab instead of a shielddropped attack or a shieldhopped aerial instead of a shielddropped attack). And how they kept walking into traps.

You can play the game this way. It's just not really the "best" way to play it to win. The more careful, sluggish and campy way of playing is ATM the most effective way of playing it, hands down. These people are doing it their own way... but then again, Fox kept getting shined by Falco whenever he jumped into the air.

 

[GimR]

What does it say about our community's skill at this game that some people actually think THIS is lightning mode.

Dude that's definitely heavy mode. Look how fast Falco fast falled his D-air in the first few seconds of the match.


I would like to see you make a vid fast falling his D-air that fast in regualr brawl.

 

[Yuna]

Dude that's definitely heavy mode. Look how fast Falco fast falled his D-air in the first few seconds of the match.

I would like to see you make a vid fast falling his D-air that fast in regualr brawl.

How about the one jillion times they fell at "normal" speed? Just because you can't do something doesn't mean it's amazing if someone else can.

It's not Heavy Brawl.

 

[Xyro77]

Yuna, give it up. 07-08 members will think what they want no matter what we say.

 

[bowz10190]

Proof?

**** I swear, some people just don't want to accept anything that comes out of brawl.

Those players are by far 10x better than any Brawl Pro that has vids on the internet.

Watch the video and learn what you can from it instead of trying to find reasons why it doesn't make brawl good.

This video is a perfect example of how you don't need AT's to make a game good for competition.

I'll say this. I'm probably 10 times better of a falco then him, and I'm nowhere near "pro". All he did was up tilt into nair it seemed. 1 chain grab. 0 lazers? didn't dash cancel upsmash.
Overall a sub par falco. The fox wasn't much better.
So, it may be faster, but the skill level wasn't there. So who cares?

 

[Spidah]

Yuna, give it up. 07-08 members will think what they want no matter what we say.

Verry interesting point of view and opened mind :')

edit : its like me assuming that since you're from texas, you must be a ****ing cowboy, am I right ? :D

ggnore, ty

 

[ShadowLink84]

Except much of what he says is true. The majority of 07-08 members have this brilliant idea that they know everything there is about the game.

They also use bad grammar.

 

[Bud]

join date dosnt matter, this is my 3rd account and ive been playing hardcore since 64. This site does not represent your skill at smash.

 

[=ArtH=]

Except much of what he says is true. The majority of 07-08 members have this brilliant idea that they know everything there is about the game.

They also use bad grammar.

So true lol.

 

[Yuna]

join date dosnt matter, this is my 3rd account and ive been playing hardcore since 64. This site does not represent your skill at smash.

The majority of recently joined users are new. A majority of these are also new to Smash in general. And many of these think they know everything there is to know about the game and that they're teh ****.

However, there are those like you who have multiple accounts and those who are new and know they're new and don't really know much.

But the above is still true.

 

[choknater]

Oh my God. Did my post just go by the wayside?

To anyone insulting their skill: THEY ARE NOT BAD PLAYERS. They are really quite good at Fox and Falco. Zentore and Nyosuke rank highly in Japan, just ask KameKasu.

It's just the "10x" claim that has gotten on all our nerves. It is racist, a big fat generalization.

What matters is how good each individual player is, not whether he is Japanese or American.

 

[ShadowLink84]

join date dosnt matter, this is my 3rd account and ive been playing hardcore since 64. This site does not represent your skill at smash.

Except that the majority of people who join are new. Simply because youn are part of the minority does not negate this idea.
If we held a survey you would find that many people here are new and have not had multiple accounts.

As such with the behavior of these new members it does enforce the idea that many are ignorant.

 

[studly]

their willingness to get hurt is sorta interesting ....in an odd way

 

[3transfat]

This is the first serious match of Brawl I've ever enjoyed watching.
There is a significant lack of camping.

 

[KMAY]

A lot of short hops to ffdairs, to utilts, what else is new from fox and falco?

 

[Cisne]

This thread is just : Scrubs Vs UltraBig EGO usa ppl vs Yuna and friends.

wazgood if defense is better than speed , why does sheik **** ganondorf in melee ?

Defense never beats speed. Now defense+speed is another thing.

 

[Steck]

I know I'm annoying I'm sorry

You can play fast without leaving tons of gaping holes like these people. Just take a look at old Melee matches between top ranked players.

Their faults are caused by bad choices.

Then how come there seems to be alot of slow/campy matches these days? Is it just because there seems to be less of a reward for it in Brawl?Is the idea "why play fast when pure defense gets the job done?" or is there some other reason?

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

It's funny, watching this looked more like watching a Melee match.

But Yuna, don't you suppose it's rather odd to be telling us what was punishable and what they should have been doing, when you have not played others who play the same way those asians are playing? This could just be another method of playing in a certain mind-set.

I'm sure that you are an excellent player, and I'm not trying to anger you, but I want to ask you a simple question, and I'm curious: have you played many people like this before? Has anyone here? Should we not think with doubt?

Maybe these guys in particular aren't the greatest, I won't say that, but history has shown us that it's very common for asian players to destory Americans at many games when they gather for tourneys. It's not usually wise to doubt hardcore asian players, whatever their style..

 

[skrach8]

yeah ur right. but i didnt mention anything bout money. hmmmm. funny. but i guess this thread is full of scrubs, right, i mean who were you in melee? or are u another scrub brawl player.

im sure uve complained bout camping, spamming, etc.

noobs

 

[DMG]

This thread is just : Scrubs Vs UltraBig EGO usa ppl vs Yuna and friends.

wazgood if defense is better than speed , why does sheik **** ganondorf in melee ?

Defense never beats speed. Now defense+speed is another thing.

Defense and speed are not directly related to each other for most characters. That's like saying a cheetah is better than a bulldozer just because it is faster. You can't really accurately judge characters by those two factors alone (MOST of the time).

I found nothing alarming about the pace they moved at, nor with their play style or anything like that. I find it silly that people are looking at one video that (IMO) isn't very good and that they are freaking out and thinking that American players are automatically inferior based off one recorded match between two Non American players.

 

[Yuna]

wazgood if defense is better than speed , why does sheik **** ganondorf in melee ?

Since when was Ganondorf the pinnacle of defensiveness? All he had was weight and not-so-floatiness. He got owned by camping, which is in itself a defense all the while sucking at camping.

Then how come there seems to be alot of slow/campy matches these days? Is it just because there seems to be less of a reward for it in Brawl?Is the idea "why play fast when pure defense gets the job done?" or is there some other reason?

I never said you can play as fast as you want without leaving gaping holes. I never said playing fast is better than playing campily. I only said that you can play fast without leaving gaping holes.

But Yuna, don't you suppose it's rather odd to be telling us what was punishable and what they should have been doing, when you have not played others who play the same way those asians are playing? This could just be another method of playing in a certain mind-set.

Because anyone with half a brain and who knows how Brawl works would know how to punish those gaping holes correctly? So what if their playing style is different? Different does not automatically mean good. Nor that I can't punish them on pure reaction because they leave gaping holes everywhere.

I'm sure that you are an excellent player, and I'm not trying to anger you, but I want to ask you a simple question, and I'm curious: have you played many people like this before? Has anyone here? Should we not think with doubt?

Not many, but some. Also, I know how the game works. I would've just shielddrop jabbed, tilted and smashed them most of the time when they went for (slow) shorthopped aerials.

Maybe these guys in particular aren't the greatest, I won't say that, but history has shown us that it's very common for asian players to destory Americans at many games when they gather for tourneys. It's not usually wise to doubt hardcore asian players, whatever their style..

Whatever.

 

[PK Hexagon]

Maybe these guys in particular aren't the greatest, I won't say that, but history has shown us that it's very common for asian players to destory Americans at many games when they gather for tourneys. It's not usually wise to doubt hardcore asian players, whatever their style..

Lol, wtf does that even mean? Hasn't the main argument of this thread been: 'don't make generalizations'?

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Heh, I'm going to generalize, becasue it's true. Most asian gamers are better at the games they specialize in than their American counter-parts, I'm sorry.

Yuna my point was that you haven't played those people. Not many people have, as you said. And from the sounds of it you think you're much better than them.

I'll ask another more pertinent question: do you think you could beat those players?

 

[Pye]

Heh, I'm going to generalize, becasue it's true. Most asian gamers are better at the games they specialize in than their American counter-parts, I'm sorry.

Yuna my point was that you haven't played those people. Not many people have, as you said. And from the sounds of it you think you're much better than them.

I'll ask another more pertinent question: do you think you could beat those players?

That first paragraph there is blatant stereotyping and totally irrelevant to this discussion, I'm sorry. Even assuming that it's true really gets you nowhere: Whether or not an Asian Starcraft player can beat an American Starcraft player has absolutely no correlation with the overall smash bros skill of the entire countries. I can't believe you're actually using that as an argument, it's ignorant to say in the first place and it can't possibly help you, whether I accept it as a premise or not.

Secondly, I'm defending Yuna here because when you hit a certain level of Smash, you can watch a video and see that you'd be able to beat that player. You can tell what's punishable and what's not punishable. In this case, and I agree with Yuna, those aerials are extremely easily punished, there's no two ways about it. Drop your shield and jab, tilt or smash, as pointed out already. There's no "what if they know something we don't?" here. Brawl aerials are punishable. That's a fact.

Do I think I can beat those players? Maybe, maybe not. It really doesn't matter though, because whether or not I can beat them doesn't change the fact that the way they are playing is, while visually entertaining, very reckless and easily punished right now.