Hmm...I've been thinking... Brawl got me thinking...

[Oldskool]

I was going through some youtube videos of old NES games, I've played and old GB favs of mine. I'm looking at fan contributions to some games, and I just remembered how wonderful gaming actually use to be and the many things I was exposed to.

After the disappointment I had with the Brawl's roster i started thinking about videos games in general and my over all experience with them. I have concluded that I just can't get the same joy I got playing the games that come out now like the games I played years ago. The only reason I played Smash was because I was reliving all of the best moments I had in gaming. You can tell that I'm a nutcase for the VC.

But, now that I'm in my 20s I can see how this world is just falling apart and it's effecting everything, including video games. They just don't make games like they use to I guess. You can compare gaming magazines back then and now and see where I'm coming from. The kids today just don't view games like the kids use too back in the golden age/pre-golden age. Nintendo is a business, they need to survive, so they can't do what they use to anymore, because this generation is different, they have to cater to them and leave their children behind.

I was generally born during the start of the gaming era, and was playing NES games before I even started school. I have had MANY memories playing games, bad and good ones, and many artistic visions displayed to me through games. But the main thing I liked was the variety I had in my collection, but I just can't get that anymore. I'm looking through my game collection and the common appearance of Zelda and Mario titles brings a twist to my stomach. I'm not getting the well balanced meal I use to get from the gaming industry like I use to. I am now just getting fed junk food--- the same treats over and over and over.

Brawl was the wake up call I needed. The roster being packed with only the most famous Nintendo franchises, save only a handful, was disheartening. It showed me what has become of the industry. Sequel after sequel after sequel of the same big franchises, with little to no room for exploration and variation, it's insanity. I can finally see why Sakurai hit the eject button and went freelance. He couldn't take it anymore, and neither can I really. I guess I know why he liked the idea of trophies and music. It was a way to revisit those moments I remembered oh so well, THE ONLY WAY. I can thank Brawl for this at least.

All in all, I think that Brawl has shown me that the train of video gamings' spirit is heading for a ditch that leads to hell. Brawl was like the friendly exit warning that I needed to take. I will honestly say that I think I'm going to retire from video games after this generation. I will still enjoy Brawl and I will still play old games, but I will not continue to support the industry...

 

[Your Hero]

I really don't understand what you're saying..

You are giving up on video games because you realised that video games don't show other NES charactersthat you used to know from your past, which include LOZ and Mario which are from that era..?

Could you please be a little more clear..

 

[Oldskool]

No, because they don't take the time to explore and create new franchises like they did back then, they just milk the same old franchises to make money, and they only care about the same franchises that make them money.

 

[Your Hero]

Oh, I see.

Well, no offense, but I'm pretty sure it would make sense to milk the same old franchises if people like those characters and the games, not to mention they're well known and very loved.

Not to mention that this game is based on characters that have appeared in lots of games (2+ or so), and always has been, unless if they're retro characters.

Besides, wouldn't it seem wierd to see playable characters of people you've barely ever heard of? This is why you don't see characters from the countless threads made on these forums introduced into brawl.

 

[Discord002]

You can start thinking like this about everything. "Chocolates were much better when i was young", "TV used to be fun" etc. Sounds like your just nostalgic, and thinking everything was better before. Even tho it may not have been so. In 20 years some kids who grew up today will have the exact same view on say.. Mario Galaxy compared to the new Mario game that came out then.

Also, there was a bunch of crap that was released way back in the period your talking about.. just like there is alot of crap today as well. I get what you mean tho, i just think your taking it a bit too serious.

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

You being biased, you generalisin' all your favourite Childhood gems, your past, your memorys agianst what? Smash Bros Brawl? I had a light thought like that a while ago. Games arn't so much getting worse. I'm just aware of all the crap that exists today. When your a child the games are long and rich. Your older, as expected your better, games play quicker and you expect more and critise them deeply.

Games are just games, be happy!

 

[GameAngel64]

I know where you're coming from. I feel that way a lot, about games, movies, childhood cartoons, etc. I think the truth of the matter is that our sense of wonder was just greater during that time period. This is not only because we were children (although I'm sure that contributed), but I think the 80s-90s era in general was just an era of wonder, where 'cool' special effects (no matter how cheesy) in movies and the amazing graphics of 8-bit video games just captivated everyone. It was all astounding and novel. Now while we can still find ourselves 'wowed' at times, you can't replicate that first moment.

 

[Arteen]

Maybe you're just playing the wrong games.

 

[Zodiac]

I was going through some youtube videos of old NES games, I've played and old GB favs of mine. I'm looking at fan contributions to some games, and I just remembered how wonderful gaming actually use to be and the many things I was exposed to.

After the disappointment I had with the Brawl's roster i started thinking about videos games in general and my over all experience with them. I have concluded that I just can't get the same joy I got playing the games that come out now like the games I played years ago. The only reason I played Smash was because I was reliving all of the best moments I had in gaming. You can tell that I'm a nutcase for the VC.

But, now that I'm in my 20s I can see how this world is just falling apart and it's effecting everything, including video games. They just don't make games like they use to I guess. You can compare gaming magazines back then and now and see where I'm coming from. The kids today just don't view games like the kids use too back in the golden age/pre-golden age. Nintendo is a business, they need to survive, so they can't do what they use to anymore, because this generation is different, they have to cater to them and leave their children behind.

I was generally born during the start of the gaming era, and was playing NES games before I even started school. I have had MANY memories playing games, bad and good ones, and many artistic visions displayed to me through games. But the main thing I liked was the variety I had in my collection, but I just can't get that anymore. I'm looking through my game collection and the common appearance of Zelda and Mario titles brings a twist to my stomach. I'm not getting the well balanced meal I use to get from the gaming industry like I use to. I am now just getting fed junk food--- the same treats over and over and over.

Brawl was the wake up call I needed. The roster being packed with only the most famous Nintendo franchises, save only a handful, was disheartening. It showed me what has become of the industry. Sequel after sequel after sequel of the same big franchises, with little to no room for exploration and variation, it's insanity. I can finally see why Sakurai hit the eject button and went freelance. He couldn't take it anymore, and neither can I really. I guess I know why he liked the idea of trophies and music. It was a way to revisit those moments I remembered oh so well, THE ONLY WAY. I can thank Brawl for this at least.

All in all, I think that Brawl has shown me that the train of video gamings' spirit is heading for a ditch that leads to hell. Brawl was like the friendly exit warning that I needed to take. I will honestly say that I think I'm going to retire from video games after this generation. I will still enjoy Brawl and I will still play old games, but I will not continue to support the industry...

Its true, for people like us who grew up with videogames, we know all the tricks that the developers use to make them fun, we've quite frankly been around the block many many times over the last 21 years of gaming and theres little to nothing new that the industry can offer. Or rather that dare to explore, the found a formula thats works, these formuylas are called genre's, RPG, Figheters, FPS, RTS, Adventure, Puzzle. And now they arnt exploring any further, if they dared to try and make a new genre. Something that breaks out of the norm(Like Many nintendo titles back in the day) then maybe gaming could be revived, maybe.

 

[LuisMa316]

Its true, for people like us who grew up with videogames, we know all the tricks that the developers use to make them fun, we've quite frankly been around the block many many times over the last 21 years of gaming and theres little to nothing new that the industry can offer. Or rather that dare to explore, the found a formula thats works, these formuylas are called genre's, RPG, Figheters, FPS, RTS, Adventure, Puzzle. And now they arnt exploring any further, if they dared to try and make a new genre. Something that breaks out of the norm(Like Many nintendo titles back in the day) then maybe gaming could be revived, maybe.

Revive? They seem to be doing pretty good for themselves.

And C'mon I'm as old as you guys and i'm still enjoying games today with a bunch games i'm looking forward too....so please don't generalise.

 

[Brawler1432]

LOZ, or LOZ TP? Super Rally Racing! or Burnout Paradise! See the old games are fun to lay, but to say Video games aren't as fun just isn't true. Sure I'd like to buy the original Super Mario Bros, but probably to replay after beating galaxy. You really can't say games have gotten worse, it depends on the person, and me? I suggest you not linger on the past while in the present.

 

[Dojo999]

I'm going to have to(i'm trying for "calmly". Disagree. You claim that Nintendo has become a business, with sequel after sequel of similar franchises with little variation. What do you call the SSE. If that aint a huge mix up from the first 2 smash games I dont know what is. You also seem to want all your nostalgic characters in more games. (which seems hypocritical, but I understand a lot of people want multiple things at the same time, me incluede) First of all, Sakurai packed this thing with nostalgia. Almost the whole roster is old school favs, look at ROB. He even put in the masterpiece collection which has the ACTUAL GAMES. Other than that, you cant expect a company to rehash old characters all the time cause you want a trip down memory lane. There are new styles to be discovered, new franchises to be made and become famous. The oldies are great but you cant stay stuck there, you gotta move on and make way for the next great games so they can have their time in the spotlight. Mario will always be in my heart, but heroes like Travis Touchdown make me anxious for the future.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

I'm crossing my fingers for a Kid Icarus revival showed at E3.

 

[Zodiac]

Im very much looking towards the SSE in brawl, but like I said most games are stale repetitions of older formulas "reinvented" just enough to convince people they're different and fun. Smash is a one of the exceptions to this. Games like Okami were also exceptions, see what I mean, a original fun game is hard to come by now days.

 

[Layupfreak]

oh i seeee..

 

[Johnknight1]

While yes, there are sequals, they are good, but they seem to hype us up nowadays, and not deliver. I was expecting Twilight Princess to be 60 hours long, have a difficulty setting (FINALLY, after all Zelda games are ALTTP were easy as crap!), and have hard final bosses. But it DIDN'T DELIVER that way, but it delivered diffrently. It took me 40 hours to beat the game, and 10 more hours to get everything. I spent over 10 hours just messing around with it. It was not as difficult, but the controls were amazing, and I absolutely wasn't expecting such a good story!

I expected Super Mario Galaxy to be hard-but it wasn't. However, it was classic Mario, and if you know Mario, you know that Mario and Zelda together basically define a generation of gaming's revolutions. It was a totally diffrent game from what I expected, and was a 3D translation of Mario's greatness.

Overall Zelda, Mario, Metroid, and smash are what is saving Nintendo for the 2nmd generation in a row. Nintendo is just out of it with revolution outside of virtual reality. As is Sony and Microsoft. Really, only Capcom is left, having classic hard games for us old school gamers, with games that are actually challenging.

Honestly, the SSE will be EASY AS HELL! There is no such thing as difficulty in gaming anymore without playing on "insane" on certain games, like the Devil May Cry series, Metal Gear [Solid] series, and a few more. Nintendo is a business, and is crushing Sakurai. They realize past March 20th, games don't sell, and the game would have to be delayed for August at earliest. And Nintendo doesn't want to get killed by Devil May Cry 4 and Metal Gear Solid 4, among other titles. Mario Kart Wii is being called a casual's game by Nintendo (hopefully not as bad as the ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE Mario Kart Double Dash!!, which was the worst n00b friendly ever!). Mario Kart Wii can't stand up to MGS4. Not on a prayer.

In other words, this is business. Nintendo doesn't really care that us dedicated smash fans are pissed, because they know they have our money. They're just out to pick up new fans. They're a business, after all. They know they got our money, and don't care about our needs vs. killing the competition. Sakurai was limited, as always. Nintendo will pressure him to make smash bros. 4 by threatening a Brawl remake, and he'll fall for it. He'll be limited again. But hopefully, next time Sakurai will be the boss, and not Nintendo. Because Sakurai > Nintendo's business. Ya, I said it! XD

 

[JonBeBonanza]

thats exactly what jay-z said about rap, just sub video games for music and yeah

 

[Arteen]

I don't think that games have become less fun. For example, I put a ridiculous amount of time into Mass Effect not to long ago. Maybe the games you'd like just aren't out at the moment? I remember that I went a year or two where I only bought two or three games, but that wasn't some ill omen, just a lull.

 

[The Noob Legend]

You know why?
In order for a business to survive it has to change with the times...
I guess it did,
BUT don't forget that Nintendo is the underdog, the different story, the one with the wacky ideas that are just crazy enough to work...
The Wii.

Smash is a reflection of the golden age and modern age of Nintendo video game history.
Blended with what kids expect today.
I'd say it's the perfect mix.

Trust me, there won't be a game matching SMB 3 ever, never and forever.

 

[Jackal478]

/tear

I think you're just so used to old games that all the new ones seem unfimmiliar.

But, this isn't a shrink, this is Smashboards. This topic has almost no relativity to Brawl, besides using it as an example

 

[Zodiac]

SSE will be hard, if you see it on the hardest mode. but I can see how Nintendo would have forced him to make it casual friendly, and if he did, I will forsake Nintendo for such a atrocity

 

[Drclaw411]

There is a differemce between milking a franchise to make money, and continuing to make that franchise strong. Spyro was milked. A wonderful franchise that slowly got worse, until they started pumping out bad platformer after bad platformer. Mario however is not being milked. The mario games continue to get extremley high scores and are very fun to play. Would it have been better had Galaxy never came out? And Brawl IS going back to what you like. SSE COULD SAVE THE SIDE-SCROLLING PLATFORMER, a beloved genre that has been dwindled lately.

 

[Norgay]

Well, oldskool, I actually know what your going through. I too remember the older games as having soo much more depth, more fun, better storylines, less stale sequels, ect. After a while though, when going back and replaying these old games, and games like it, I found out the truth. These games weren't as amazing as I had remebered, and they were just games, moderately fun with good storylines. So what I found out was really going on (after I started taking psychology) is that when you remember things from the past (especially from childhood) you actually very inaccurately judge how much fun or how happy the thing made you. Now I'm not saying videogames are some kind of lie, and you just think your having fun, I still really like them, or I wouldn't be on this board at all, but you need to remember to put it in perspective, and that you just remember the games of your youth as something amazing.

 

[KernelColonel]

I think downloadable content on the Wii should make you feel better about Nintendo. I bought Galaga and I love it as much as Mario Galaxy.

 

[Colenstien]

No, because they don't take the time to explore and create new franchises like they did back then, they just milk the same old franchises to make money, and they only care about the same franchises that make them money.

Zach&Wiki, Gears of War, Brain age, and many other franchises say hello.

I'm sorry dude but this topic doesent really say anything. All the games seemed better when you were a kid because everything is better as a kid. When I was a kid a leaf was entertaining. So yes the big companys are milking thier top franchises but with Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, And Metroid Prime: Corruption, is that really a bad thing?

(Imagine if little kids were allowed to have sex.)

 

[Oldskool]

Zach&Wiki, Gears of War, Brain age, and many other franchises say hello.

I'm sorry dude but this topic doesent really say anything. All the games seemed better when you were a kid because everything is better as a kid. When I was a kid a leaf was entertaining. So yes the big companys are milking thier top franchises but with Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, And Metroid Prime: Corruption, is that really a bad thing?

(Imagine if little kids were allowed to have sex.)

Those are not revolutionary and they are gimmicks designed to appeal to a certain age groups, obviously you don't get it. My point is that it even effected the outcome of this game SSBB. And you didn't really read the whole topic or you would see that it's not about the games being better than they are now. That's the problem with you kids, you guys can't read your way through a freaking paper bag. And then on top of it, the reading comprehension lacks.

It's not about better storyline, or better graphics to me. It was about the simplicity and variety that was abundant back then. We don't get that anymore, we NOT ONLY get the same genres, but we get the same characters representing them, and I'm tired of eating it, it's making my stomach hurt, and I don't see why the restuarunt would change it's menu, the kids are eating the crap right up. Deeper stories do not always mean they are better...

I'm tired of the power hungry villan
I'm tired of the love triangles
I'm tired of the anti-hero
I'm tired of the cliche' "deep" predictable storylines.

If you want me to play a game and read through a bunch of dialog to tell me a story, PLEASE don't waste my time with things I can figure out for myself. I've actually yelled in movie theaters because of this stuff.

I was actually fairly smart for my age when I was younger, and I remember things more clearly when I had emotional attachment to them. I remember hating that SMB3 level because I got scared of that freaky sun. I remember getting NES games everytime I left the doctor after a shot. I remember my uncle coming over to my house and helping me beat Super Mario World, I remember my collection consisting of tons of different types of games with TONS of different characters.

Today, people just want the same characters, the same type of songs, the same TYPE OF GAMES, they don't want to explore the gaming genre anymore, they just want more of what they have, and they will continue to milk the same things to people who give them the money.

 

[Chaosblade77]

You just aren't looking for the right games then. There are good games other than the standard "Nintendo Collection" of Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc but you just have to seek those out.

As for your point about not even attempting to create something new, what would you call the Wii?! And the DS?! Both could easily being about new forms of gameplay if developers would truly take advantage of the hardware. The console is still young, but I am sure by the end of the generation we will see things that are totally new, just like we did with the DS.

To a point, I do agree with you though, a lot of companies are out there to milk what people want, that is why there are so many generic FPS games and bad RPGs. Nintendo does milk franchises to a point, they know a game with Mario or Zelda will sell, but at the same time they are smart enough to know they have to keep that big name's reputation intact. If they make a few bad Mario games consistently, of course the general population will look down on Mario, and that is why they want to make his games as best they can be, unlike the Spyro example mentioned above.

 

[Your Hero]

The fact is that SSB is a game that represents multiple popular games. If the companies that created Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, etc decided to create a new game each time rather than a sequel/continuatiom, then we wouldn't be able to truly represent the games.

Imagine every single pokemon game out there to be different (i.e. gagamon, tortillamon, leftargamon)
Imagine every single zelda game out there to be different (i.e. Damien the dragon and the four swords, Chronicles of Dafin: Moonlight Prince)
Imagine every Mario game out there to be different (i.e. TicTac Galaxy, Super Kevin Brothers)


Now, Imagine all of those games being represented in brawl. As you stated you want these companies to create new games, rather than milking the games they already have that are popular and loved.

See? Now we have a roster of about 200+ characters in brawl.

 

[Oldskool]

The fact is that SSB is a game that represents multiple popular games. If the companies that created Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, etc decided to create a new game each time rather than a sequel/continuatiom, then we wouldn't be able to truly represent the games.

Imagine every single pokemon game out there to be different (i.e. gagamon, tortillamon, leftargamon)
Imagine every single zelda game out there to be different (i.e. Damien the dragon and the four swords, Chronicles of Dafin: Moonlight Prince)
Imagine every Mario game out there to be different (i.e. TicTac Galaxy, Super Kevin Brothers)


Now, Imagine all of those games being represented in brawl. As you stated you want these companies to create new games, rather than milking the games they already have that are popular and loved.

See? Now we have a roster of about 200+ characters in brawl.

See, even now you have the mindset that they have to follow some kind of formula, even if they don't use the same characters. "Hey, let's make Zelda, only let's not call it Zelda, let's call it Xuros and add a different group of characters, that will definitely make it a different game."

I'm not asking for EVERY SINGLE character from different games to be in a roster, I'm asking for variety within the series represented, but because of what's happening to gaming, we can't have that, I don't care who they add, just as long as the symbol isn't a mushroom a group of three tri-angles a flying fox etc...

But obviously some developers agree with how I feel. Why do you think people leave big gaming corporations and start working on their own games? They get tired of this stuff. I remember when Kojima said that MGS3 was going to be the end for him. They make a 4th and the fans complain that he's not in charge so he gets pulled back in again. It's like there is no escape from this, eventually the industry will collapse on itself if this keeps up. Nintendo only figured out a temporary solution to the problem (with the wii) and is only slowing down the inevitable.

 

[Chaosblade77]

But obviously some developers agree with how I feel. Why do you think people leave big gaming corporations and start working on their own games? They get tired of this stuff. I remember when Kojima said that MGS3 was going to be the end for him. They make a 4th and the fans complain that he's not in charge so he gets pulled back in again. It's like there is no escape from this, eventually the industry will collapse on itself if this keeps up. Nintendo only figured out a temporary solution to the problem (with the wii) and is only slowing down the inevitable.

The problem is, it might not cause a real decline.

I am taking this from a few specific quotes you have made, but basically it sounds like you feel games have gotten stuck in a rut they can't get out of. They aren't making things that are new and different anymore but following those formulas mentioned because they work.

The problem with that is it's not easy to come up with something totally different anymore, chances are if you think of something, it's been done. The reason so many developers stick with what works is because they are unable to do anything else. Those that can, or want to try at least, are end up back in the rut because it's what fans want. Sakurai is a good example of this as well, it's the reason he left Hal Labs in the first place.

Now, back to the first thing I mentioned in this post, it might not cause a decline in video games because it IS what the majority wants. People bought the Xbox because for it's good FPS games. Now all the 360 really has to it's name are a bunch of shooters, people still buy it, and a lot of people still consider it the best console on the market.

People buy Nintendo consoles for the first party games. If Nintendo did not have their big name franchises there is no way their consoles or games would sell the way they do. How many games that are not first party Nintendo sell for Nintendo consoles? Not many, that was the issue with the Gamecube. None of them had the support that the first party titles had and everyone went to the consoles that had more variety. The Wii is turning out the same way, even though there are some great third party games that just get overlooked. That is the reason Nintendo is so heavily focused on franchising, it keeps them in business. However, it is nice to see the new franchise/game come out everyone once in a while.

When a majority of gamers get tired of things like FPS games and all of the crap RPGs that are getting released, you can expect new things to emerge and become popular; however, it does not seem like that is going to happen any time soon. Regardless of how right you are, you fall in a minority and are overlooked for that reason.

 

[Oldskool]

Exactly, I understand this. That is why I drew the conclusion that I can no longer support the industry until it possibly gets out of this. Someone going to have to do something eventually and take that risk, Nintendo is attempting to change the foundation with the Wii, but it pains me to say this but, I hear people talking about this console going into gyms and libraries and crap, this is EXACTLY what defines a gimmick, it's not going to last and I'm not saying this to be mean, I just don't think the Wii can keep up this charade forever.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Exactly, I understand this. That is why I drew the conclusion that I can no longer support the industry until it possibly gets out of this. Someone going to have to do something eventually and take that risk, Nintendo is attempting to change the foundation with the Wii, but it pains me to say this but, I hear people talking about this console going into gyms and libraries and crap, this is EXACTLY what defines a gimmick, it's not going to last and I'm not saying this to be mean, I just don't think the Wii can keep up this charade forever.

Heh, there's already a Wii in the library at my school. Oh noes!

(But there's a 360 and PS3 too.)

 

[Phyvo]

There are thousands of real, unique games out there which have their own flavor. Here's a hint: they are "indie". These are independent games, made by independent developers who would love you to buy their game for $20-30 that they coded with their buddies, having poured out their soul into the game.

You get unique titles like Determinance, Threadspace Hyperbol, and smaller games like Trilby: The Art of Theft. Or, if you're into dealing with extremely difficult levels, I Want to be the Guy is a very hard platformer. Heck, Introvision Software's games have each been quite unique, Uplink especially not really fitting into any preconceived genre.

So stop complaining. Google is out there, go use it and play one of the games I mentioned or something else independent. Buy one of them. The developers need every penny they can get for their creative work, and you'll have the *new* game that you said you wanted.

SSB has never really been about *new* game series anyways. The characters who have made it into SSB generally have stood the test of time and been characters we grew up on who we still think of fondly today. Sure, a few are updated or do come from a new series (captain olimar), but the most fundamental characters, Mario, Link, CF, etc, have always been in the game.

 

[Oldskool]

There are thousands of real, unique games out there which have their own flavor. Here's a hint: they are "indie". These are independent games, made by independent developers who would love you to buy their game for $20-30 that they coded with their buddies, having poured out their soul into the game.

You get unique titles like Determinance, Threadspace Hyperbol, and smaller games like Trilby: The Art of Theft. Or, if you're into dealing with extremely difficult levels, I Want to be the Guy is a very hard platformer. Heck, Introvision Software's games have each been quite unique, Uplink especially not really fitting into any preconceived genre.

So stop complaining. Google is out there, go use it and play one of the games I mentioned or something else independent. Buy one of them. The developers need every penny they can get for their creative work, and you'll have the *new* game that you said you wanted.

SSB has never really been about *new* game series anyways. The characters who have made it into SSB generally have stood the test of time and been characters we grew up on who we still think of fondly today. Sure, a few are updated or do come from a new series (captain olimar), but the most fundamental characters, Mario, Link, CF, etc, have always been in the game.

The problem is, if you noticed that I'm slightly older, I don't have as much time to do all this research on games anymore and developing a relationship with someone isn't making it any easier to find that time. I would like to just pick up a magazine and read a preview or something, but now most magazines only cover more popular and recognizable names. I have to put more effort than I should in finding some decent unique games and I just can't do that anymore. I gotta go.