help with Ike several technical questions)

[BurtonEarny]

Tragedy all; my friends is finally able to beat my peach with his Ike consistantly. I havent played her in a while, but thats not really an excuse as Im fairly comfortable with all her moves. My friend is amazing for as few techs as he knows. For example, yesterday he just leraned how to retreating forward air... but it WON HIM THE MATCH! I had him at about 120 ish and I was about 20-30 and he started using only that. Toad couldn't hit him with spores, and I couldn't get through... Um.. So how are we supposed to get through is when its timed so that he can land and immediatly jab me in my face. Hes really good at jab cancelling so punishing him is a chore. How do you get past a shorthopped retreated fair followed up with jabs/ cancelled grabs? I was thinking just chuck turnips and make him try something else, but Im not sure if thats the best option.

Also, Im dependant on the fact that I will be able to get him to 40-50 with a combo, and Ive been experimenting with a couple. I like the ancient dairx3 uair/ nair turnip throw just fine, but I noticed I can dthrow to ftilt (nothing new here) to jab cancel three times (somehting I never do) or dsmash and regrab (not always) into a dthrow utilt/ nair for mid fifties-ish damage. I really pride my opening game, but I dont much know where to go from there... My offense gets predictable, and no matter what I try, Ike and his disjoints go right through my offense. We wanna go to a tourney as soon as we can find one, and I dont think that we could even win really (Theres only one guy around here who has soundly beaten us, but Im sure there are more)... but more than that, I wont be able to beat my friend without using kirby... thoughts and opinions. Villi tells me I need midol, maybe so...

 

[Praxis]

Powershield. Camp with turnips.

"Shield Turnip Camping": Pull a turnip, run into his attacks with your shield and hit him with a turnip OOS. My patented anti-G&W technique.

 

[Zen Basis]

Ike's range gets annoying pretty fast. I notice, by the way, that you talk about your offense a lot. Do you get too aggressive? What does your defensive game look like? Ike, by nature is going have to approach you because he has no projectiles; this is a clear sign to let him come to you. Bait and punish, from what I am told, is more often than not what Peach must do-- try that? Ike's got range, but significant lag on several of his attacks, sans jab.

Once you get him offstage, don't be afraid of his aether recovery. Run right up to the ledge and toad. I think that when ike's trying to recover with aether is the best time to use toad on him. It's not difficult to time, and it'll gimp him pretty well.

Haha, on a side note, what does Midol have to do with anything?

 

[BurtonEarny]

Ike's range gets annoying pretty fast. I notice, by the way, that you talk about your offense a lot. Do you get too aggressive? What does your defensive game look like? Ike, by nature is going have to approach you because he has no projectiles; this is a clear sign to let him come to you. Bait and punish, from what I am told, is more often than not what Peach must do-- try that? Ike's got range, but significant lag on several of his attacks, sans jab.

Once you get him offstage, don't be afraid of his aether recovery. Run right up to the ledge and toad. I think that when ike's trying to recover with aether is the best time to use toad on him. It's not difficult to time, and it'll gimp him pretty well.

Haha, on a side note, what does Midol have to do with anything?

Um. actually I have spacing down pretty well, and maybe I do get over aggresive... never really thought about it(I've been told I was campy and always thought of my self as a defensive player). I did notice that I over use fair, and its not so much a kill move as a good spacer/ punish move for me and I know better.

A note about my friends Ike: he is very, very smart about his play. He really likes to cancel nair to jabs and ftilts. He does a very good job of keeping a hitbox between you and him at all times, and that jab is SUCH a safety net... It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't have so much experience against my peach. Where I kind of started using just whoever, he always used Ike at least a little, and as a result he got more comfortable with him. I always feel that Peach will be my main, but I really have lost touch with her play and need to fix it.

A note about toad: he knows how to not get gimped by it... it used to work and he complained that it was stupid, so I stopped using it because Im a nice guy and all, but he learned to not trigger toad (so he says) and I know it can be done, and I'm not going to rely on that to win me a friendly when we are the only two people around...

The midol thing has to do with my comment on the "greatest weakness with peach" thread. I have a social phobia and freak out and play badly when people who aren't playing and know how to play watch me... its stupid, but I'm working on it. I dont know why he suggested midol though. I guess I'm going to have to buckle down and focus on my peach play some more, because, clearly, what was working isn't going to be good enough...

to praxis: thanks Ill try it out

 

[SleeplessInKyoto]

I just played against a good Ike and this is how i countered the spacing issue. There's a couple of ways i went about doing it.

First one, reverse glide toss. The turnip usually bonks him as he lands on the ground, and you're further back. Causes much frustration on Ike's part and makes him sloppy.

Second, jump into float. Now careful because this is all about gentle spacing. Bring Peach very slowly into his range, then just before the sword hits you, float backwards gently so it *just* about misses you. Then move straight into a D-air combo. It wont matter if he can cancel into jabs because by then you're gonna be in the air.

You can also snipe his head with turnips while he is in his jumping animation.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ok for the reatreating Fairs. Toss a turnip at him. Time when he will swing his sword and toss it. That moves does not end fast enough for him to do something about a turnip coming to his face.

Ike a a charcter you have to mix both aggressive and defensive game. Ike can be good at pressure and spacing. Thats where your agressive game comes in. But he can also punish Peach for her mistakes really bad and can cause yo a stock if the Ike is patient and baits. that is where your defensive game comes in.

Ike can not really punish you when you air his shield. Uptilt is not fast enough to break the second set of Dairs. So you have that on him. The only thing he can do is roll away. I also advice to use lots of turnips cause he is not doing that easy. and be careful vs him too. He can kill you pretty well, which sucks for us. Your pacing is better than his and faster. so space well to give him the beats. Balance both aggressive and defensive play and you should be fine. I think this match up is even.

And one more thing. When you edguard him, when he up-B's, go near the edge and Toad, it will send him back out, and repeat till he dies or has to recover another way. But this is one of the best ways to edgeguard him.

 

[Zen Basis]

Haha, I read that thread in its entirety and still don't understand why anyone would prescribe you Midol, which treats PMS, for this social phobia you're talking about.

Reading the last few replies, I notice that others' advice are similar to what I had stated in my other post. If you don't think that any of that is your problem, do you have any videos of your Peach versus your friend's Ike? that would make it much easier to evaluate your troubles.

 

[BurtonEarny]

Im not saying that its not the problem, quite the contrary, I mentioned my defense is probably the problem. I didnt get the midol thing either, maybe because its Peach?