I play C. Falcon & Fox, and I'm good at combining, stringing moves together, & punishing bad habits. I struggle heavily in neutral though & DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO!!! As C. Falcon, I try to bair/nair/uair approach, dash grab, & sometimes dash attack. I don't know what to do when they shield or dodge my approach, then I get punished & they get a fatty combo on me. I don't have the slightest idea how to play the neutral game & that's my biggest down fall. Even when I bait something out from them with a tomahawk or foxtrot cancel, they usually avoid my approach still. I've tried studing trifroze & fatality videos to mimic them but it still doesn't work. Please any & all tips/advice is very much appreciated!!! I think the only video of my Falcon up on YouTube is called Wave vs SilverAlloy, if any of you want to watch & tell me what I could of done diffrently.
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Help me with neutral please!!!
- Thread starter Wave_007
- Start date
ItsIve
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2015
- Messages
- 43
What works for me is mixing up just staying at mid-range (dash-dancing at about mid-range works pretty well too, as long as you mix-up how many cancels you do) and intimidating the opponent into making an unsafe decision, creating a wall of retreating/approaching back-airs, or just straight up playing rush-down and run in. It's all about mix-ups and conditioning the opponent. Based off your gameplay, I feel like you're a better player than me based off the video, but this is what works for me time and time again. It pays to be patient. It's difficult to accurately tell exactly how you play neutral because Pikachu kept quick-attacking and doing a lot of other annoying stuff that would instantly win him neutral. A properly spaced upair, as well as back-air should be safe on shield (if I'm not mistaken). Neutral for Falcon, in my opinion, is much more psychological and based off of capitalization than it is for almost everyone else in the cast. I probably just said a lot of things you probably already know, but I hope I could have maybe helped at least a little. Best of luck
Last edited:
Jef
Smash Rookie
Hey, watched the video and good job with the fox trot and dash trotting, hard to implement in game. Also, two sick dairs in the first game. Way to clutch it out.
I do think pikachu is a bad match-up although potentially not terrible given true combo d throw to knees, which should become more prevalent as the meta progresses and pika's weight. However, his size makes him hard for a lot of CF moves (nair, jab, falling bair and uair) to hit. My recommendations:
1. Wait more and just throw out jab and let pikachu walk into it - frame 3 hitbox with decent priority will help you cover a lot of his options
2. Down b - kind of scrubby but gets you out a bad position 2-3 times in the video and hard to pikachu to punish, especially if they aren't looking for it. Use it enough for them to respect that option.
3. More short hop bair walling, again something to be patient about and that I'm always reminding myself to do. If you watch fatality especially he's great at it and I'm surprised myself at how often it hits. Pretty safe on shield overall
4. Some d tilt for spacing
5. lastly I would practice your grab spacing, something I'm always working on and critical for EVERY CF player
Other thoughts:
6. Forward b to look for the kills. Especially against pika, can be a great kill option at ~100% and active hitbox will hit him out the air more often than not
7. Less forward throw... clearly you should be down throwing even at early percents. I'm guessing just nerves on your part?
good luck!
I do think pikachu is a bad match-up although potentially not terrible given true combo d throw to knees, which should become more prevalent as the meta progresses and pika's weight. However, his size makes him hard for a lot of CF moves (nair, jab, falling bair and uair) to hit. My recommendations:
1. Wait more and just throw out jab and let pikachu walk into it - frame 3 hitbox with decent priority will help you cover a lot of his options
2. Down b - kind of scrubby but gets you out a bad position 2-3 times in the video and hard to pikachu to punish, especially if they aren't looking for it. Use it enough for them to respect that option.
3. More short hop bair walling, again something to be patient about and that I'm always reminding myself to do. If you watch fatality especially he's great at it and I'm surprised myself at how often it hits. Pretty safe on shield overall
4. Some d tilt for spacing
5. lastly I would practice your grab spacing, something I'm always working on and critical for EVERY CF player
Other thoughts:
6. Forward b to look for the kills. Especially against pika, can be a great kill option at ~100% and active hitbox will hit him out the air more often than not
7. Less forward throw... clearly you should be down throwing even at early percents. I'm guessing just nerves on your part?
good luck!
dandeto
Smash Apprentice
If you want something that is guaranteed at low percents you're better off with dash grab>Fthrow>dash attack>SH Uair>fastfall>shield. 9 times out of 10 people will try to hit you after your Uair and you will be able to shield grab them and Dthrow>Uair.
TuukkaTime
Smash Cadet
I really love this string, because it works so often especially on worse players that aren't used to seeing it.
Additionally, I can't get over how good SHFF Uair to jab is. At low percents this is a true combo, and even if shielded uair is safe on shield. Following it with a jab throws so many people off because they drop shield to punish you and get hit by a gentleman combo. It's also not safe to spot dodge like a grab would be. SHFF Uair to jab and just regular boost grabs are like the greatest approaches in the game imo, thank god CF has them.
Gawain
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2014
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- 1,076
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- Gawain
- 3DS FC
- 5069-4113-9796
Yo, can we talk here about how different Falcon's neutral now is? I feel like there's lots of unexplored usage of utilt, nair, and up air as normal tools in the neutral (almost to bair levels of usage in some cases). Seriously, up air is really nice now with the shield changes. Jumping at someone and falling-up air is WAY more threatening now if you use it properly, it's almost as safe as bair was pre patch. Nair is in a similar boat though not quite as good. I feel like up tilt can be used effectively in a lot of matches too since it was pretty close in lots of situations.
What do u do when someone shields ur uair? just wondering now with shield changes and just in general. also r u saying uptilt is safe on shield now?
Gawain
Smash Lord
- Joined
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- Gawain
- 3DS FC
- 5069-4113-9796
If I understand the question (asking how I followup a shielded falling up air?), this is my general approach. First I consider the matchup. How good is their grab reach/how fast is it? This is considering mostly dash grab since you're almost certainly out of shield grab range unless you messed up. If I don't think they have options quite as fast as mine(or if they're equal), I will often try to grab them or I'll throw out a ground move to catch them dropping shield (this is usually jab or dtilt or the like). I mix this up with dashing away and then immediately dashing back (dash trot) into a dash grab(or a short hop etc...) to try and catch them dropping shield/chasing me/doing something else punishable. You see folks like Fatality utilizing this "fake retreat" thing a lot after aerials. The basic idea is just to keep them pressured after hitting their shield, which is much more realistic now.
As for up tilt, I'm just saying that it MIGHT be underused as a neutral tool in some matchups. The reward off of hitting someone is often pretty good and the shield changed make it a lot more up in the air as to whether its universally safe or not. I admit to not having messed with it much yet though.
Now, all that being said, if you just fly into their face with an up air or a back air and you land right in front of them then you're still likely gonna get punished by a grab. But the spacing is much more lenient now and up air and nair are much more viable.
Speaking of nair, there are some absolutely disgusting punishes you can get off of nair that I think have been pretty overlooked. I'm looking into it pretty hard right now and I have to say, I'm excited by what I've found.
ya u got the question lol. Ive generally been more bair heavy but im switching to uair more so i dont stale it as much and cus its less punishable now. For bair i would sometimes short hop then double jump at the last second to bait them approaching then punish with a bair. and ya, i always felt up tilt should be used more.
looking forward to ur nair findings
