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Help asc853 Become the Best Olimar in the World!

Cook

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
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Hannibal, MO
Back in September I posted a couple of videos of me in a tournament in order to get some constructive criticism. I finally have some more videos (from Nov. 15), which I think show some improvement, and I was hoping you guys could give me advice again. Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g9Nz94KMPg&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNVBPMQxPmw&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8wHZmUNQ_I&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw-0-4aC9uY&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=33

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3ZOS7_r6Bw&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKMS72E4bgw&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=35

Unfortunately the only sets recorded were the ones I lost :(. There are also some of my doubles matches in that playlist, but I didn't link them.
 

RichBrown

Smash Master
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Santa Clarita
lol I watched the first few vids last night and i got really tired so I fell asleep. I think because you posted so many vids it's a little overwhelming :p

From what I remember, you had decent spacing with that snake match. The only thing I'd suggest is that when you are playing snake, watch snake as if you were controlling him. This is actually a good way to play in general, but especially with snake. The reason is, if you don't predict the mortar slide, you can be in for a world of hurt. On the flipside, if you predict it, you can control the match. Whenever I think snake is gonna mortar, I simply start charging a forward smash. If he doesn't slide, no harm done. If he does, he gets hit and it gets discouraging. He really doesn't have too many other options for approaching. You outcamp him.

I'll watch the rest later. **** I say too much.
 

Cook

Smash Master
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Hannibal, MO
lol I watched the first few vids last night and i got really tired so I fell asleep. I think because you posted so many vids it's a little overwhelming :p

From what I remember, you had decent spacing with that snake match. The only thing I'd suggest is that when you are playing snake, watch snake as if you were controlling him. This is actually a good way to play in general, but especially with snake. The reason is, if you don't predict the mortar slide, you can be in for a world of hurt. On the flipside, if you predict it, you can control the match. Whenever I think snake is gonna mortar, I simply start charging a forward smash. If he doesn't slide, no harm done. If he does, he gets hit and it gets discouraging. He really doesn't have too many other options for approaching. You outcamp him.

I'll watch the rest later. **** I say too much.
Yeah, I was starting to notice that while I was playing these guys, that watching for the mortar slide was important. I kept just waiting for it and reacting rather than actually prdicting it, though, so I think my f-smash came out too late a lot because my reaction was too slow. I'll try charging it every now and then like you said. I also tried to pivot-grab it a lot, but I was too close and/or it was too fast and I ended up getting hit by it usually. Actually, which Snake match were you talking about, anyway? There were like four of them :).
 

Cook

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I think these are probably the best two, if you guys don't want to watch all of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g9Nz94KMPg&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3ZOS7_r6Bw&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=34

With these two being the next best (maybe):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNVBPMQxPmw&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKMS72E4bgw&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=35

That last video really sucked because the stupid laser knocked me out of the tournament (I didn't realize it got bigger at the end).
 

Kabuto Mushi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
252
I think these are probably the best two, if you guys don't want to watch all of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g9Nz94KMPg&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3ZOS7_r6Bw&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=34

With these two being the next best (maybe):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNVBPMQxPmw&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKMS72E4bgw&feature=PlayList&p=62506DEF447ABA63&index=35

That last video really sucked because the stupid laser knocked me out of the tournament (I didn't realize it got bigger at the end).
During that match against the Metaknight (during the last stock) while he was spamming Uair, I was yelling "Whistle!!" at my computer screen, lol. Not that I woulda done any better against *shiver* MK. :laugh:

Cool matches dood. Fun to watch.
 

Cook

Smash Master
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During that match against the Metaknight (during the last stock) while he was spamming Uair, I was yelling "Whistle!!" at my computer screen, lol. Not that I woulda done any better against *shiver* MK. :laugh:

Cool matches dood. Fun to watch.
I was actually mashing d-B when that was happening, I don't know why it wouldn't come out. Trust me, I felt you frustration; especially since I've WACed MK's u-air spam then did u-air for the kill before, so I was realy hoping I could do that in this match! Thanks for watching and commenting.
 

Rust

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NNID
Rustic
I feel as though you could have been more agressive with your kill moves =(

And you missed a lot of grab opportunities for the sake of spacing with pivot grabs (I do understand the importance of spacing, though missing opportunities is something that one shouldn't do.)

Then again, I don't know much. So carry on ^_^
 

Cook

Smash Master
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Hannibal, MO
I feel as though you could have been more agressive with your kill moves =(

And you missed a lot of grab opportunities for the sake of spacing with pivot grabs (I do understand the importance of spacing, though missing opportunities is something that one shouldn't do.)

Then again, I don't know much. So carry on ^_^
I think you're right about pivot grabbing. I spam it too much and miss out on other opportunities! I need to actually start thinking about whether it would be better to pivot grab or shield grab in each situation rather than just pivot grabbing all the time.
 

asob4

Smash Champion
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Palmdale, CA
i only watched two against snake
you can fsmash his mortar slide and nair through his mortars

camp bettah vs campy snakes!!

approach with toss as well, not just retreat
don't do standing tosses :/ SH toss is better by a lot
 

Cook

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i only watched two against snake
you can fsmash his mortar slide and nair through his mortars

camp bettah vs campy snakes!!

approach with toss as well, not just retreat
don't do standing tosses :/ SH toss is better by a lot
Yeah, I f-smash the mortar slide a lot (or at least try to). I didn't know n-air>mortar, though, that'll help me a lot!

Why is it always better to short hop pikmin toss? I know that that's what everybody recommends, but I'm not sure why. It seems like I'm more vulnerable when I'm in the air, like they can run under me and hit me or whatever. I kind of think doing a running pivot toss is better sometimes because you've got more options if they charge you than you do in the air. Anyone else think that?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
asc the only thing i found wrong with your playstyle back when i played you is you tried to reverse grab too much. other than that just work on the basics like punishing, DI and spacing.
 

Fino

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nxt to Dphat wit all dem azn biches
Why is it always better to short hop pikmin toss? I know that that's what everybody recommends, but I'm not sure why. It seems like I'm more vulnerable when I'm in the air, like they can run under me and hit me or whatever. I kind of think doing a running pivot toss is better sometimes because you've got more options if they charge you than you do in the air. Anyone else think that?
For this part EXACTLY is why I can tell you won't be the best olimar in the world.... it's basic smash -_-' and I really don't think it should be explained XD.
No one else thinks this btw.

I'm sorry, that was uber harsh, but I hate threads that are like "zomg Im'a be teh bestzorz. Just play the game, don't be so arrogant (reason #1 why people hate m2k so much).


~Fino
 

Cook

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For this part EXACTLY is why I can tell you won't be the best olimar in the world.... it's basic smash -_-' and I really don't think it should be explained XD.
No one else thinks this btw.

I'm sorry, that was uber harsh, but I hate threads that are like "zomg Im'a be teh bestzorz. Just play the game, don't be so arrogant (reason #1 why people hate m2k so much).


~Fino
Lol, this from the self-proclaimed Best Olimar in the Midwest. Obviously I don't think I will ever be the best in the world, it's just a funny, attention-getting title; lighten up ;). If I really thought I was that good I wouldn't be asking everybody for help.

Anyway, always shorthopping your pikmin toss is basic Smash? I didn't know that, lol. I know that everyone thinks this is the best way to do it. I'm asking why it's the best. I gave reasons why I think doing it from the ground may be better sometimes, I'm asking people to tell me why I'm wrong. A good player needs to know why the tactics he uses are the best, and so if I'm going to avoid doing grounded pikmin toss then I should know why I'm doing it. Savvy?
 

Cook

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On a separate note, can someone tell me how I can get saved replays onto the internets? I've got an SD card, but I don't know what the eff I'm doing.
 

Cook

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asc the only thing i found wrong with your playstyle back when i played you is you tried to reverse grab too much. other than that just work on the basics like punishing, DI and spacing.
I need to learn to DI like you...

And I've come to the same conclusion about pivot grabbing. Such a hard habit to break, though...

P.S. I'm a pro spammer of my own threads!
 

Fino

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nxt to Dphat wit all dem azn biches
When you're in the air, you have more maneuverability. When you SH, you can move greatly according to what your opponent does, and using a projectile limits, or changes their approach. Also it's faster, ever notice why samus mains SH missle why mario and luigi SH fireball, why falcons SH raptor boost or falco's and fox's SH and do their illusion dash thing (the name is slipping me), why pikachu's SH tjolt, and so on. It's not olimar exclusive. There is more maneuverability, less lag.
As for DI, look at the vid, it helps a lot. DI perpendicular to the stage, and momentum cancel. For olimar's... I've found it's easiest to use uair for momentum cancel. I laughed at zori, but frame data says it's just as fast as fair, and the uair is a besst (and easier) fast fall.

EDIT: Not self proclaimed btw. In omaha, in comparison to shrink ray, most people said I was better. All but 1 if you exclude crew bias. I've also had this given to me at every tournament I've gone to. So I've just stuck with it. Most people agreed at omaha that I was the best olimar there... and I've gotten better since then


~Fino
 

Cook

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When you're in the air, you have more maneuverability. When you SH, you can move greatly according to what your opponent does, and using a projectile limits, or changes their approach. Also it's faster, ever notice why samus mains SH missle why mario and luigi SH fireball, why falcons SH raptor boost or falco's and fox's SH and do their illusion dash thing (the name is slipping me), why pikachu's SH tjolt, and so on. It's not olimar exclusive. There is more maneuverability, less lag.
As for DI, look at the vid, it helps a lot. DI perpendicular to the stage, and momentum cancel. For olimar's... I've found it's easiest to use uair for momentum cancel. I laughed at zori, but frame data says it's just as fast as fair, and the uair is a besst (and easier) fast fall.

EDIT: Not self proclaimed btw. In omaha, in comparison to shrink ray, most people said I was better. All but 1 if you exclude crew bias. I've also had this given to me at every tournament I've gone to. So I've just stuck with it. Most people agreed at omaha that I was the best olimar there... and I've gotten better since then


~Fino
Most of those characters short hop their projectiles to give them a funky trajectory or because it has less lag that way. Olimar is a little different, though, in that his projectile (usually) does not have a hit box. So if you jump and toss a couple pikmin fast characters (or mortar sliders) can sometimes get to you before you hit the ground; this isn't as much of a problem for other characters because their attacks will stop the other player's advance (or at least force them to shield, which gives the jumper time to land). Olimar is also weaker in the air than a lot of characters, so he is sort of vulnerable if you jump.

I'm not saying tossing from the ground is always better, or even better most of the time, but I think it is better sometimes. Like, if you're running away then I think it is often better because now you're facing the other player, so you can shield, grab, f-smash, whatever, depending on whether they try to avoid the pikmin or just keep coming after you. I also think it is better sometimes when you are at mid-range. For instance, against Snake if you are within range of his mortarslide and you shorthop double pikmin, I'm pretty sure he can hit you with the mortarslide before you're safely back on the ground. Whereas if you were standing then I think you have time to throw a f-smash after the pikmin toss if he mortar slides. I'm just going off the little Snake experience I have, though, so I could be wrong.

By the way, who shorthops their raptor boosts or spacie >Bs? I guess if the Falcon wanted the spike to lead to something else it might make sense, but I never see people shorthop these moves. Not that I've seen many good Falcons or spacies...

Also, you know how to get videos from your SD card on the internet, don't you Fino? You should help a brother out.

As for DI, don't you also want to DI with the c-stick? I thought you held the control stick perpendicular to the way you want to go and the c-stick toward where you want to go? Let me get this straight then: after getting hit you hold control stick perpendicular to the direction you want to go while smashing the c-stick either toward the stage (f-air) or up (u-air). Once you do your aerial you fastfall. Correct?

Lastly, Omaha=/=Midwest, you+Shrink=/=the only good Olimars in the Midwest (and no, I'm not talking about myself).

tl;dr version: I like food.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Also, you know how to get videos from your SD card on the internet, don't you Fino? You should help a brother out.
you have to record the matches with something else, you can't just upload the files on the SD card.

As for DI, don't you also want to DI with the c-stick? I thought you held the control stick perpendicular to the way you want to go and the c-stick toward where you want to go? Let me get this straight then: after getting hit you hold control stick perpendicular to the direction you want to go while smashing the c-stick either toward the stage (f-air) or up (u-air). Once you do your aerial you fastfall. Correct?
brawl DI isn't performed the same as melee DI.

you hold perpendicular to your original trajectory. so lets say you get hit by olimar's fsmash to the right, you want to hold up left. you do your fastest aerial (lowest start up lag and ending lag) to end you hitstun early. once your hitstun ends you are able to fast fall, thus destroying most of your momentum.

i've found out at hella high %'s SDI along with jumping out of your aerial ends up killing you. like on marth's fsmash at 190%, if you jump out of that you jump to your death and if you SDI you star KO yourself.
 

Cook

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you have to record the matches with something else, you can't just upload the files on the SD card.



brawl DI isn't performed the same as melee DI.

you hold perpendicular to your original trajectory. so lets say you get hit by olimar's fsmash to the right, you want to hold up left. you do your fastest aerial (lowest start up lag and ending lag) to end you hitstun early. once your hitstun ends you are able to fast fall, thus destroying most of your momentum.

i've found out at hella high %'s SDI along with jumping out of your aerial ends up killing you. like on marth's fsmash at 190%, if you jump out of that you jump to your death and if you SDI you star KO yourself.
So there's no way to get matches from my Wii onto the internet? That sucks.

Ok, are you saying that if you SDI during the hitstun of Marth's tipper then it kills you at high percentages? I don't get it.
 

Fino

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Lastly, Omaha=/=Midwest, you+Shrink=/=the only good Olimars in the Midwest (and no, I'm not talking about myself).

tl;dr version: I like food.
Shrink used to = best olimar in the midwest, @ Omaha Fino > shrink
Fino now >>>> Fino @ omaha, but what other olimars are you talking about? Zori isn't considered midwest, and I two stocked you in dittos (granted dittos are iffy).


~Fino
 

Cook

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Shrink used to = best olimar in the midwest, @ Omaha Fino > shrink
Fino now >>>> Fino @ omaha, but what other olimars are you talking about? Zori isn't considered midwest, and I two stocked you in dittos (granted dittos are iffy).


~Fino
Well, dittos are kinda iffy, like you said, and the set did end up going to three matches. It's kind of hard to say who's better than who based on just the events of one tournament, also. You did beat MuBa twice, and I lost to him the only time I played him (though it was really close). I also got 2-stocked by Arkive in the only friendly I played against his Link, and you presumably beat him at least some times. Speaking of which, how do things usually go in your crew? Like, who usually beats who (just curious)? So these things make you look better.

However, you did lose that Razor Challenge to Kit, in which he two-stocked your Olimar with DK and you lost at least one friendly (of two?) to Nicole's Game and Watch. I very rarely lose to Kit's DK and I've never lost to Nicole's G&W. Of course, you could have been sandbagging with her because she's a good-looking girl ;). Like I said though, it's hard to make a fair comparison based off one tournament and the surrounding friendlies.

Also like I said, though, I wasn't really talking about myself when I say there are other good Olimars, because I know I'm definitely not the best in the Midwest. Gantrain says he has a pretty good Olimar, for example. I've only played his Peach, so I don't know from experience, but he did two-stock Smeesh's Peach, which is a really good Peach. The thing is, though, there's only like, maybe ten or fifteen Olimars that post here regularly. There's a lot more than that that are good. Some of them most likely live in the Midwest. So I'm sure there are some really good Olis from the Midwest that don't post here. Anyway, I want to play at more tournaments with you and Gantrain.

This was a really long and trivial post... but I can't resist a good argument! ;)
 

asob4

Smash Champion
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Palmdale, CA
fino's better cause he comes to cali every summer
and he's gonna come to palmdale next summer and get his **** ***** >:]
 

Dyyne

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Mar 24, 2008
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Sh pikmin toss is usually better. However, grounded pikmin toss is often much better against, like you said, characters like snake. If you are within dacus range, then grounded pikmin toss (don't spam it, or else you'll get schooled) should be used to bait the dacus to lead into a pivotgrab. That is the only instance that comes to mind, and even if there are not others, in that specific situation, I believe grounded pikmin toss is far safer than sh pikmin tossing.
Fino is right though, in that the majority of the time (as I said, that dacus situation is the only one that comes to mind for grounded tossing) sh pikmin toss is definitely the way to go.
 

asob4

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just do a single toss in the SH
no lag after and can do an attack right after

toss -> fair much??
 

Dyyne

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
742
Faster! Pivotgrab faster!
God that range.... it's so long!

EDIT: looking back, I actually can't tell if that was sexual innuendo or not dangr haha. Whatever, I'll leave the comment anyway.
 

asob4

Smash Champion
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oli, we are oli-ing after you oli-ly

translation:
yes, we are going after you specifically
 

g2g4l

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Accross the universe
I havent watched them all but your first set it seemed that your first snake match was really nicely spaced you played a greay mid-range game but when it hit to the meta knight game it felt like you might have gotta a little over whelmed. It looked like you hesitated on alot of attacks and you just started to try to play defensive(which is the easiest thing to do against a meta knight) and he overwhelmed you, My guess is just play against more meta's it looked like you didn't have any "tried and true" ways of taking him on so i say just practice i'm tried so i will watch the rest and critic the other later good job though so far
 

Cook

Smash Master
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Hannibal, MO
I havent watched them all but your first set it seemed that your first snake match was really nicely spaced you played a greay mid-range game but when it hit to the meta knight game it felt like you might have gotta a little over whelmed. It looked like you hesitated on alot of attacks and you just started to try to play defensive(which is the easiest thing to do against a meta knight) and he overwhelmed you, My guess is just play against more meta's it looked like you didn't have any "tried and true" ways of taking him on so i say just practice i'm tried so i will watch the rest and critic the other later good job though so far
Yeah, MK ***** me. I can't do **** against him. I guess I just need more practice; no one uses him where I live. I was starting to figure the matchup a bit when I played online earlier today, so hopefully I'll start to improve. Anyone have specific MK advice? I know I need to space way better; once he gets close there isn't much I can do. Plus, I'm ******** when it comes to the whorenado.
 

DanGR

BRoomer
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Are you trying to make me worse?
Here's what I think Olimar's matchups would be without his pivotgrab.

Bowser: 65-35
Captain Falcon: 60-40
Diddy Kong: 50-50
Donkey Kong: 35-65
Falco: 40-60
Fox: 50-50
Mr. Game and Watch: 35-65
Ganondorf: 70-30
Ice Climbers: 40-60
Ike: 60-40
Jigglypuff: 70-30
King Dedede: 55-45
Kirby: 35-65
Link: 60-40
Lucario: 35-65
Lucas: 40-60
Luigi:30-70
Mario
: 50-50
Marth: 40-60
Meta-Knight: 35-65
Ness: 40-60
Olimar: ditto
Peach: 20-80
Pikachu: 45-55
Pit: 50-50
Pokemon Trainer: 45-55
Squirtle: 35-65
Charizard: 60-40
Ivysaur: 50-50
ROB: 35-65
Samus: 60-40
Sheik: 25-75
Snake: 40-60
Sonic: 45-55
Toon Link: 60-40
Wario: 40-60
Wolf: 40-60
Yoshi: 40-60
Zelda: 60-40
Zero Suit Samus: 40-60
 
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