Good secondaries for Pacman

[Froggy]

So we live in a meta where matchups and counter picking are a huge part of the game. Sometimes(unless you are Shiek) it will definitely be in your best interest to switch to another character depending upon the matchup and stage. So I just wanted to hear from the rest of you what character/s you think compliments Pacman well!?

 

[Psi Sig]

I think Meta Knight is the perfect secondary for Pac, for me at least, he makes the match ups i usually find frustrating bearable. Once i get my Pac up to snuff I shall start working on him again

 

[ZeoLightning]

I Have Luigi and Mario cover PAC-MAN's bad matchups, but im waiting for wolf, but probably shiek is the best for covering bad matchups

 

[Splebel]

This is more of stress release but I like to switch to Bowser if I'm not feeling Pac-Man because he's very different and I can mess around more with him.

 

[Froggy]

Well I have absolutely settled on Toon Link as my secondary was struggling a lot with him in the past. But that is because I was being camping instead of being aggressive. Pacman is my naturally aggressive character and Toon Link is offensive! I have a half a mind to co-main him rather than keep him as a secondary.

Psi Sig Taking a page out of Abadango's book eh

ZeoLightning Isn't Mario just so boring. He seems like an obvious great choice for a secondary but I just couldn't play such a novel character like Pacman and then switch to Mario. Its not enjoyable.

Splebel I play Bowser a lot on FG. He is a lot of fun, especially against opponents who can't handle his aggression!

 

[ZeoLightning]

ZeoLightning Isn't Mario just so boring. He seems like an obvious great choice for a secondary but I just couldn't play such a novel character like Pacman and then switch to Mario. Its not enjoyable.

I've mained Mario in past smash games, which is why i dont have a problem, i also played him a majority of time on 3DS before wii u came out. mario is very straight forward and b the books but i always enjoy playing as him. being able to play such radically different character definitely helps with matchups as your opponents has to re adjust to your playstyle.

 

[Froggy]

Well I like characters who can do cool things, where an emphasis is not on fundamentals I suppose.

 

[dragontamer]

In my experience, Mario is the natural secondary for Pac-Man.

With that said, I'm not as serious of a player as other people. My secondary (by time spent learning a character) is arguably Gannondorf or Robin. But whenever I pull out Mario, it seems to give players a bit of trouble adjusting right after a PacMan fight. PacMan and Mario really are polar opposites.

Robin is nice from an obscure point of view, as well as a very strong changeup to gameplay. Robin may be slow, but has extremely solid B-Reversals. Robin's micromovement is actually damn good due to ElFire and Thunder b-reversal shenanigans.

Furthermore, all of Robin's aerials can KO below 100% (especially UAir and BAir). Robin's Smash attacks are similarly slow as PacMan's (but hit a heck of a lot harder), and Robin's Jab-Jab-Jab (Fire) has virtually the same hit-confirm timing as PacMan. Robin's tilts are also roughly the same speed and range as PacMan's tilts.

Switching from PacMan to Robin is basically a study in mastering B-Reversals, the properties of the new projectiles, learning to "tilt" your aerials (to switch between LS-Airs and Bronze-Airs) and then mastering a new combo game. Robin has a hell of a lot to offer, including book throwing (Z-Drop combos and the like), double-El Fire combos. But when it comes down to timing DSmash, FSmash, or DTilt against a roll, Robin and Pacman have a good number of similarities.

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Honestly though, I stick with Pacman and Robin because of the pun. (Get it? Its like "Batman and Robin"... except with Pacman. I'm so smart! jajajaja).

 

[MachoCheeze]

This is probably weird as hell but I use Ganondorf to play against Mario and that's it. Every other MU I feel comfortable in.

 

[Froggy]

In my experience, Mario is the natural secondary for Pac-Man.

With that said, I'm not as serious of a player as other people. My secondary (by time spent learning a character) is arguably Gannondorf or Robin. But whenever I pull out Mario, it seems to give players a bit of trouble adjusting right after a PacMan fight. PacMan and Mario really are polar opposites.

Robin is nice from an obscure point of view, as well as a very strong changeup to gameplay. Robin may be slow, but has extremely solid B-Reversals. Robin's micromovement is actually damn good due to ElFire and Thunder b-reversal shenanigans.

Furthermore, all of Robin's aerials can KO below 100% (especially UAir and BAir). Robin's Smash attacks are similarly slow as PacMan's (but hit a heck of a lot harder), and Robin's Jab-Jab-Jab (Fire) has virtually the same hit-confirm timing as PacMan. Robin's tilts are also roughly the same speed and range as PacMan's tilts.

Switching from PacMan to Robin is basically a study in mastering B-Reversals, the properties of the new projectiles, learning to "tilt" your aerials (to switch between LS-Airs and Bronze-Airs) and then mastering a new combo game. Robin has a hell of a lot to offer, including book throwing (Z-Drop combos and the like), double-El Fire combos. But when it comes down to timing DSmash, FSmash, or DTilt against a roll, Robin and Pacman have a good number of similarities.

---------------

Honestly though, I stick with Pacman and Robin because of the pun. (Get it? Its like "Batman and Robin"... except with Pacman. I'm so smart! jajajaja).

With customs on I had Robin as my secondary, you are absolutely right about it being Batman and Robin, you trade arcthundeer for fruit and elfire for hydrant and she a very different yet similar zoning game. she saved me from some real solid counter picks.

With customs off though I can't platy her because her zoning game is too linear. She is about forcing your opponent to play a certain way and all things considered she becomes are more complex character than Pacman to play well which is the opposite of what I want for a secondary. In addition I think she struggles and excels at the same matches that Pacman does so I don't think she is right for a secondary. Its the same problem I had with TL until I decided to start playing him more offensively.

 

[dragontamer]

Yeah, I wanted to make sure to emphasize that Pacman and Robin are secondaries because of the relative ease to switch between the characters. I don't necessarily think that Robin's "zoning" is his strong suit, because as you've said, it is quite linear. Its all about those LS-Aerials, and the landing mixups that are available from B-reversals, Nosferatsu, Nair, Fair, and lol UAir.

Both have troublesome matchups against characters with fast air movement speed and low cooldowns (Shiek, Yoshi). Robin's particular weakness is on characters with fast roll speeds (Shiek). Pacman less so actually, its as if PacMan's good matchups are even better for Robin, and PacMan's worst matchups get even worse. So from a "tournament winning" perspective, its probably best to stick with Mario.

Ideally, we probably want a character who can go toe-to-toe on PacMan's worst stages. Flat stages like Final D or Smashville I find to be a frustrating stage against the top tier. Mario's speed gets there on that stage, so I think he's be the serious pick for a secondary.

 

[Psi Sig]

Psi Sig Taking a page out of Abadango's book eh

Lol yea, I had always thought he was a good match for pac, abadango just reinforced my belief

 

[AGES]

Best secondaries imo in terms of matchups are Sheik, Meta Knight, Pikachu, Ryu, and Mario.
They all do really well against what I consider pac man's harder matchups, particularly R.O.B. Fox, Sonic, and Mario.

Ultimately though picking a secondary boils down to comfort more than anything, don't play a character that doesn't feel right to you in any way. Or as dragontamer pointed out, just go for the best(or worst) puns possible

 

[Megamon]

The combo I had to start the game was Megaman-Diddy. It's now Pac-Diddy. I really think whoever Pac-man struggles with, my Diddy can take care of it. This is a good game to have a secondary in.

 

[Froggy]

I'm feeling Megaman more than Toon Link lately. He has too much of a problem dealing with shield. I did not pick up a secondary to still get punished for grabs. His zoning game has less teeth to it but it's safer., and I feel so awesome always grabing my opponent. I may bust him out at my weekly tonight

 

[Direspect only!]

Either fox or doctor mario, both are drastic changes from pacman. Fox and pacman combined go even or beat a majority of the top tiers. So if I was serious I would go fox, but doctor mario packs a punch and relies on solid fundies which is great at top level play.

 

[Huge]

I'm starting to learn Diddy now because, after almost a year of Pac-ing, I would like to continue utilizing my hard-learned item jank in matches.

Even with the nerfs, he feels so good after playing Pac. Pac's only real, consistent kill confirm is fair to key at 130-140%; you have to charge it, and good players can punish fair on shield. Diddy's got insane confirms with both his banana and his extremely safe Dtilt. He also has a lot of landing jank, like Pac-Man. Seems to me like he'll be a good way for me to learn the fundamentals I missed out on!

TL;DR: Diddy 's got a lot of similarities to Pac-Man, but he also feels very different. He's got a very different matchup spread, too; I feel the two characters complement each other nicely.

necessary list of Pac confirms so y'all don't hate me: bell to everything, cherry to upsmash, cherry to nair, nair to key on super-fastfallers (70-80% on the edge, lol), dash attack to key on super-fallers (70% is a bad place to be in Fox v. Pac).

 

[Direspect only!]

I'm starting to learn Diddy now because, after almost a year of Pac-ing, I would like to continue utilizing my hard-learned item jank in matches.

Even with the nerfs, he feels so good after playing Pac. Pac's only real, consistent kill confirm is fair to key at 130-140%; you have to charge it, and good players can punish fair on shield. Diddy's got insane confirms with both his banana and his extremely safe Dtilt. He also has a lot of landing jank, like Pac-Man. Seems to me like he'll be a good way for me to learn the fundamentals I missed out on!

TL;DR: Diddy 's got a lot of similarities to Pac-Man, but he also feels very different. He's got a very different matchup spread, too; I feel the two characters complement each other nicely.

necessary list of Pac confirms so y'all don't hate me: bell to everything, cherry to upsmash, cherry to nair, nair to key on super-fastfallers (70-80% on the edge, lol), dash attack to key on super-fallers (70% is a bad place to be in Fox v. Pac).

forgot melon into grab, and delayed hydrant break into punishing whatever option they choose, grab, forward smash, or up smash, and trampoline into apple, key, or melon,

 

[Huge]

forgot melon into grab, and delayed hydrant break into punishing whatever option they choose, grab, forward smash, or up smash, and trampoline into apple, key, or melon,

Well, talking KO confirms here. A grab isn't going to net you a KO facing towards the edge (as a melon shield confirm would leave you) until upthrow KOs at ~160% with mild rage, and at kill percent a hydrant is probably going to KO them anyway. Trampoline fruit is a fair point, but still that requires a lot of setup (definitely useful for covering ledge though.)

Pac's got a lot of jank, conventional confirms are nice once in a while, you know?

E: %.

 

[Direspect only!]

I feel you, I was just trying to keep the pac spirit alive, the dude has an infinite amount of setups, the hardest part is correctly analyzing the situation and then choosing the optimal one.

 

[Froggy]

I think it's a good thing my toon link sucks on the Wii u because I should be following everyone else's example of not seconding another zoning character. I was gonna try out Roy but I'm too cheap to buy him again for Wii U so I'm going to give Lucina another shot. She was one of the first characters I picked up and I've always kept her in pocket but I struggled with her in too many matchups and eventually agreed with smash boards about her being bottom tier. But after seeing someone make it to our regional pr with Marth and one my rivals making it to top 3 using Marcina on the previous 3ds ladder season I'm going to give the character another shot. I think it's all about paying her the right way.

 

[verbatim]

This is more of stress release but I like to switch to Bowser if I'm not feeling Pac-Man because he's very different and I can mess around more with him.

In tournament I employ a very bait and switch inspired strategy.

Games 1 and 2 I play Pacman at a deliberately slow pace.

Game 3 I switch to Ganondorf.

Last weekly I had a set against a Luigi player where my game times were (timeout at 6:00)

1. 5:xx
2. 5:xx
3. 1:20

 

[Splebel]

In tournament I employ a very bait and switch inspired strategy.

Games 1 and 2 I play Pacman at a deliberately slow pace.

Game 3 I switch to Ganondorf.

Last weekly I had a set against a Luigi player where my game times were (timeout at 6:00)

1. 5:xx
2. 5:xx
3. 1:20

Did you win that last one?

 

[verbatim]

Yeah

Upsmash kill.

Fsmash kill.

 

[TruthAlone]

This is more of stress release but I like to switch to Bowser if I'm not feeling Pac-Man because he's very different and I can mess around more with him.

I get that too. I always go to DK or Bowser and mess about to relieve a bit of stress, sometimes even 'zard.

 

[Large Dad]

I always use Cloud as my secondary incase if I see a bad match-up for Paccy but to me, a second main should just come to you based on your liking. Not because it compliments the other character. A few bit of practice on a character besides Paccy, and you can find a perfect secondary.