Getting crushed need help. Godbless

[BeyondBirth]

Hey, so last week I saw the smash documentary and immediately went and purchased a copy of melee I haven't been playing very long but i have been grinding trying to learn all the techniques like wave dashes short hops and DI, but im having a serious problem, all my friends are beating me. I try to sandbag level 9 bots all day to practice and, then my friends come who dont own the game and rarely play just destroy me, im having serious problems with being combo'd and i cant even move because the second i get back up get hit right away i find this really frustrating because I dedicate time to learning combos and tricks and they come in with their smash a and c stick til i win strats which really demoralizes me, it makes me feel awful everytime I play now and I find myself not motivated to practice because I know that im gonna get destroyed by captain A button in a week, alot of my friends are also going to be getting their own games soon which also has me worried about being completely left behind. What should I do?

-Thanks

 

[EPsilon933]

Strategy > ability

But still, you need to learn the basic techniques
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiZLs2doK8E&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFmGIOcWdsM&feature=channel_page

Play 1 of the tournament viable 8 (Fox, Falco, Sheik, Jigglypuff, Marth, Peach, Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon)

Don't practice against level 9s. They'll teach you only how to adapt to their patterns, not patterns in general

Practice technique and get experience using them in actual games

Experience is the best thing you can get

 

[Deleted member]

Tech skill is your friend. Practice it daily, if you can. Also, it would be helpful if you tech a lot of their attacks, assuming you're a fast faller and you don't tech any of their attacks at all.

Hell, I used to sit in my room for three hours practicing tech skill and I'm still not even subpar at this game.

You have take a commitment and step up against the competition. Don't let your spirit burn out, even you do lose, which you will, still stay strong and carry on. I used to have a mental block where every time I'd play against someone, I'd assume the worst and set myself up to lose. You need to have a good state of mind in order to play this game, because with an attitude like that, you'll stay at the same skill level for awhile.

Also, losing is a completely natural thing, you will lose. It's always a learning experience when you first hop into the scene.

Finally, never practice on Level 9's, they have the same DI every time you hit them, and they don't react or play like a human being at all. (ex; power shielding constantly with no end) You're best bet is to stick with your friends as sparring partners, and have them help you arise in the scene. You're lucky you have that option, many people don't.

Experience is the key, really.

 

[BeyondBirth]

Thanks so much for the tips friends :D

 

[Red Rice]

After you get basic/advanced tech skill down, you can move onto character specific tech skill and matchups and all that stuff. Curious though, who do you main?

 

[DreamEater]

Hey this is my first post but I may have some advice. I have a similar situation with my roommates. I spend time learning the tech to be victim to constant smash spams and just plain mindless play sometimes. My advice is whenever you find this happening take a second and slow down, play smart and bait out an attack. What I've noticed is that it is so easy for someone that can properly wave dash and dash dance to read the attack or bait out something to punish.

 

[Zone]

This is usually in part due to you learning things and wanting to implement it.

The difference between what you're doing and what people who already mastered these tools are doing is possibly they use it when the occasion occurs and it's the right moment.

You might be finding yourself trying to create these situations.


For example,

My captain falcon landing a Down-air. If I do it out of shield against fox, as long as he doesn't up-tilt I hit him. Or I have to catch him with great spacing out of his approach. or I combo it.

sometimes when I'm way ahead I'm a douche and try to land a stomp(down air) into Falcon punch. Me fishing for this get's heavily countered by patience, and up tilts. I end up losing harder than normal because I'm fishing for something.


Try not to fish. Try to analyze and counter.

don't let new tech make you want to try really hard to use it immediately. Just go for it when you think it's the right time. If you mess up, just wait til next opportunity. Try not to fish.

 

[SAUS]

This is usually in part due to you learning things and wanting to implement it.

The difference between what you're doing and what people who already mastered these tools are doing is possibly they use it when the occasion occurs and it's the right moment.

You might be finding yourself trying to create these situations.


For example,

My captain falcon landing a Down-air. If I do it out of shield against fox, as long as he doesn't up-tilt I hit him. Or I have to catch him with great spacing out of his approach. or I combo it.

sometimes when I'm way ahead I'm a douche and try to land a stomp(down air) into Falcon punch. Me fishing for this get's heavily countered by patience, and up tilts. I end up losing harder than normal because I'm fishing for something.


Try not to fish. Try to analyze and counter.

don't let new tech make you want to try really hard to use it immediately. Just go for it when you think it's the right time. If you mess up, just wait til next opportunity. Try not to fish.

This is good advice. When watching a high level player, it is easy to pick up on things like "After the falco hits with his down air, he shines, and then jumps and does a back-air. I should do more of that combo!". The problem is that you miss the reason for doing it.

When it comes down to it, many of the things players do are situational, and the only reason they do something a lot is because the particular situation arises often, or maybe they create that situation through baits etc. Sometimes, to beat a simple strategy like spam smash moves, you just have to do something simple (like walk in and shield grab it). Forcing complicated tech skill into the situation only leaves room for mistakes - this is still fine to do when you get good at these things, but it's more like unnecessarily styling on them at that point.

 

[TheGoat]

because you're spamming tech skill and losing to noobs spamming smashes
you need to learn fundamentals like spacing, waiting, timing. don't just rush in. THINK.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Learn your favorite characters strong points. I did for mine. Mewtwo, for example, which is my best character. Mewtwo is good at juking aerial opponents with its disjointed hitboxes, fantastic combo ability, god **** good recovery and air game, and a good dodging capability. Fox is another. Fox uses his powerful approach and his over the top projectile to rack damage, then use one of his aerials or smashes to go in for the kill. Just learn the Pros and abuse them, and the cos and how to cover them.

-StaffofSmashing

 

[Gillmatic]

I was having similar problems. I would just wavedash or dash dance because I could, and it looked cool haha. But application of these techniques is the important thing. You should be wavedashing do string together longer combos than you could normally do and not give your opponents time to react. Dash dancing is kind of difficult to explain, but it's basically used to bait out an overzealous approach. These are a few good examples of what it can be used for (don't expect these exact scenarios though, just notice the way it's used): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk09c6iLLdU

What really helped me realize wavedashing's utility was combo videos, specifically Falco/Fox/Marth. Just look at how they use the wavedash to extend combos or maintain pressure (it may be hard to keep up with at first)

Here are some good Falco ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu5h7ewdF1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyoPeoMRBE8

Good Fox one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPlP4zvX0lQ

Great Marth one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wE0q5Npa44

This is just an amazing combo video period. Has most top tier characters (+Mario): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXx3QlbyjGA

 

[Jynx]

If you saw the .gif of a Sheik player doing a bunch of technical stuff, while a Jigglypuff literally WALKS up to Sheik, and rests. If Sheik saw it coming, and strategize a bit more and developed some forethought, that could have been avoided. You see, you KNOW they're going to smash the c-stick when you get close, so bait it out, and then punish them for it. It's working around the opponent and overcoming their strategy with your own. It's not doling out the most aggressive hits and hoping you come out on top.

 

[MangoNation]

Try using level 7 or low level bots since they mix up DI and practice edgeguards and moves to stopping combos, learn out of shield attacks and pick a character you enjoy the most. I enjoy Fox and I practiced him and I enjoy playing him. Mess around with some of the characters and find the one that suits you like a glove. Then learn some stuff about the character.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

If you're getting ****ed up by casuals, then you're not thinking while playing and just spamming techskill.

 

[SirroMinus1]

master the basics, Learn with the intentions of mastering the Advance Tech. And learn to move freely/fluidly

~Don't get hit
Like they said in episode 3

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

You can be like me and lose to everyone no matter how long they have been playing. Yet, for some reason newer players still tend to give get frustrated more often than I do despite them winning. I say keep at it regardless of the consequences. What's more important playing to improve or just simply winning? If you can keep a close match those are probably the best kinds rather than either person getting straight up defeated.

 

[burntfish44]

The best advice i can give that hasn't been mentioned yet is shield grab timing. Like shieldgrabbing is so straightforward and so effective, at least from low through medium level, and even at high level depending.

One of my biggest problems is I try to shieldgrab, but I'll start the grab .001 too early and get hit because it cancels my shield. If you ever get this, just be patient, wait for their nair or w/e to clank on your shield, then grab. Then do whatever from there.

I'm also going to rephrase the 'playing smart' aspect people have been mentioning. If you're actively concentrating on your tech skill as you're doing it, it's hurting you more than it's helping you (imo) - learn to play games analytically (i'll get to that in a sec) and apply punishment to your opponents consistencies/mistakes. I just recently started to moreso consider what my opponent is doing over what i'm doing and it's been helping.
For drastic improvement in general, see http://smashboards.com/threads/drastic-improvement-under-construction-for-apex.311129/ , it has a lot of good stuff in it.
For the analytically part, the author talks about that about 1/4 of the way down the page. He basically says buy a notebook, and write down what happens after your matches, which teaches you to see matches analytically while you play them. is nice.

 

[OninO]

I'm having the exact same issue right now. You know what I noticed? All my mentality is focussed on execution at the moment. e.g. "I need to hit that L-cancel on the dair", "I need to wavedash out of the shine" etc. etc. I spend most of my time at the moment watching my own character to see if I executed correctly. Basically, I find myself playing solo but there's another guy there trying to **** me up. Of course you lose in this situation!! Give yourself a break.

Where it pays off is when you finally get the movements ingrained in your fingers and you go back to watching the other guy instead of yourself, suddenly you're playing smash again, and with more potential to do exactly the right movement at the right time. You could switch back into winning mode now simply by switching your focus from yourself to the other guy and forget about trying to be mindful of technical stuff but in the long term you're limiting yourself by not experiencing the possibilities that higher tech skill unlocks.

Think of every loss where you were purely mindful of tech as an investment in tech-skill practise under pressure. Think of every loss where you were mindful of the other character/space between you/etc as an investment in "fundamentals" under pressure. Be mindful of what it is exactly you're doing by playing, you can't be playing to win and also practising tech skills.