Getting Camped

[Mervis]

So we all know that Samus is great at dealing with over aggressive unsafe pressure.However, she seems to struggle against a more reserved opponent. I played some games last night against someone who did not approach unless it was safe and it was extremely frustrating. Is there anything Samus can do to stop camping?

 

[Narpas_sword]

without specific characters, as youve mentioned none. missile pressure works for me.
Or just crawling and charging a charge shot can get into peoples heads.

wrong forum lol, thought I had unwatched melee forums.
Just missiles then =p

Do you mean actual camping, or people baiting you out?

 

[Mervis]

Just missiles then =p

Do you mean actual camping, or people baiting you out?

Most top tiers have ways to deal with missiles for free.

I mean legit run away and tack on percent camping. I feel like even with the best movement, Samus is still too slow.

 

[rye_un]

I advise to wd oos a lot. Or something that I do is throw out spaced jabs & tilts and you can sometimes overshoot them to predict their retreat. If they don't land just pray you can cc dsmash their approach after you whiff.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

There's a finite number of ranges someone can attack from, you don't have to be throwing actions out to utilize samus' zoning.

Where is your opponent camping you? Are they horizontal on the other side of the stage? Walk forward until they can't safely act because of the threat of ftilt/jab/cc etc

"But what if they use their speed to avoid me when I walk up???"
Well where can they go? To the ledge? That's bad, hold your position and punish their ledge or return to stage option. To the platform? Also bad, zone them out using fair. What about dj? Trickier, but cover the landing if you can (fair is good hear too, it has a considerable disjoint).

Well, what about a dj to top plat? You could try a fair or uair here but samus has a hard time getting up there--- at this point you pull out your samus fundamentals and cover your opponents descent when they choose to leave the top plat (there's a finite number of places they're going to go after going to top plat). If you're on yoshis/fod you could cover with upb here as well if they're conditioned or you catch them napping.

"But what if they hit me out of my approach???"
What are they hitting you with? Is it cc-able? Bait them to attack you and punish. Are they out of range of your cc->attack? They have to commit to that kind of spacing; read and punish it. Is it a crossup? They have to move thru you for that. Upb or disengage to neutral.

Most importantly where are they hitting you. Are they dropping from side plats? Dropping thru plats? Shffling out of neutral? Dropping from the top plat?

I like to make a map of 'no go zones' in my head; areas I know my opponent likes to attack from. By just choosing to not be in those areas you're probably taking away your opponents strongest approach; this is frustrating for them, so capitalize. You can also bait it out by faking encroachment on those areas.


TLDR/FINAL THOUGHTS
The main point here is that even if you're not throwing out hitboxes or wavedashing up a storm you can still manipulate your opponents options thru spacing. When you move forward what do they do? Attack? Jump up? Run away? All of those infer what kind of option they can choose next and what kind of option you can punish with. At the most basic level, move forward, read their response and punish. At higher levels you'll have to do a movement->read/react at their movement->do another movement that diminishes their options->read/react at their movement->etc. Play out that interaction til they have no more options and then punish.

 

[Mervis]

There's a finite number of ranges someone can attack from, you don't have to be throwing actions out to utilize samus' zoning.

Where is your opponent camping you? Are they horizontal on the other side of the stage? Walk forward until they can't safely act because of the threat of ftilt/jab/cc etc
"But what if they use their speed to avoid me when I walk up???"
Well where can they go? To the ledge? That's bad, hold your position and punish their ledge or return to stage option. To the platform? Also bad, zone them out using fair. What about dj? Trickier, but cover the landing if you can (fair is good hear too, it has a considerable disjoint).

Well, what about a dj to top plat? You could try a fair or uair here but samus has a hard time getting up there--- at this point you pull out your samus fundamentals and cover your opponents descent when they choose to leave the top plat (there's a finite number of places they're going to go after going to top plat). If you're on yoshis/fod you could cover with upb here as well if they're conditioned or you catch them napping.

"But what if they hit me out of my approach???"
What are they hitting you with? Is it cc-able? Bait them to attack you and punish. Are they out of range of your cc->attack? They have to commit to that kind of spacing; read and punish it. Is it a crossup? They have to move thru you for that. Upb or disengage to neutral.

Most importantly where are they hitting you. Are they dropping from side plats? Dropping thru plats? Shffling out of neutral? Dropping from the top plat?

I like to make a map of 'no go zones' in my head; areas I know my opponent likes to attack from. By just choosing to not be in those areas you're probably taking away your opponents strongest approach; this is frustrating for them, so capitalize. You can also bait it out by faking encroachment on those areas.

TLDR/FINAL THOUGHTS
The main point here is that even if you're not throwing out hitboxes or wavedashing up a storm you can still manipulate your opponents options thru spacing. When you move forward what do they do? Attack? Jump up? Run away? All of those infer what kind of option they can choose next and what kind of option you can punish with. At the most basic level, move forward, read their response and punish. At higher levels you'll have to do a movement->read/react at their movement->do another movement that diminishes their options->read/react at their movement->etc. Play out that interaction til they have no more options and then punish.

What about a Falco or Sheik? They don't have to fear the threat of Samus until she slowly WDOOS up to them. Then they can just escape and reset.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol. You're Samus. Camp him worse.

 

[Mervis]

Lol. You're Samus. Camp him worse.

Sheik outcamps Samus. Samus can TECHNICALLY camp Falco but it's difficult to do.

 

[Narpas_sword]

what is sheik doing that's forcing you to approach?

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

What about a Falco or Sheik? They don't have to fear the threat of Samus until she slowly WDOOS up to them. Then they can just escape and reset.

With Falco and Sheik they can get away from Samus verticallly, but unless they're spending all 8:00 minutes on the middle platform they're coming down. Punish them coming down.

Also why wouldn't they be afraid? Samus doesn't have a lot of things but nobody wants to be in cc/ftilt/upb range.

 

[Mervis]

what is sheik doing that's forcing you to approach?

Needles needles and more needles.

With Falco and Sheik they can get away from Samus verticallly, but unless they're spending all 8:00 minutes on the middle platform they're coming down. Punish them coming down.

Also why wouldn't they be afraid? Samus doesn't have a lot of things but nobody wants to be in cc/ftilt/upb range.

Exactly. 8 minutes of solid top platform camping. IN FRIENDLIES. This worries me when I actually have to play against someone who does this in bracket. They don't have to come down and an approach on top platform is really easy to avoid.

 

[Litt]

Needles needles and more needles.

Exactly. 8 minutes of solid top platform camping. IN FRIENDLIES. This worries me when I actually have to play against someone who does this in bracket. They don't have to come down and an approach on top platform is really easy to avoid.

Someone needs to think about when they are actually being pressured... vs are unable to pressure their opponent and by default are feeling pressured to do something... Needle camping isnt a problem because if you are under the platform... you cant/wont be hit... and if you are short hop up airing them while they are on the plats... what are they really doing to you to combat that? needles don't go through up air, it actually has pretty high priority. Also practice Ais on platforms... you can then just transition to ground game vs ground game or force your opponent into the air or away from you.

@ Mervis did you play @Tian ? Literally the only super tryhard sheik that has ever camped me 8 minutes straight in friendlies...

 

[Mervis]

needles don't go through up air, it actually has pretty high priority.

Just now getting around to responding to this LOL sorry. Falling needles into jab/grab/whatever has been a big issue for me. I'll have to try this. What about grounded needles though. WDOOS? I feel like it makes it super easy of the Sheik to mixup into a grab.

@@Mervis did you play @@Tian ? Literally the only super tryhard sheik that has ever camped me 8 minutes straight in friendlies...

No I did not. I've just been camped a lot more recently. I'm 1 of 2 Samus in my area and the other one is a little more aggressive whereas I am much more passive. People are finally adapting to me and have started to play much more safe and camp me out a bit more.

 

[Archelon]

Are you losing anything from not attacking them? Unless they are fox with lasers, would you be able stay put and take advantage with in stage control? These are just my thoughts, hope they help.

 

[343]

well, for example, if you're behind, you need to approach

 

[Archelon]

well, for example, if you're behind, you need to approach

Yeah, I guess... I suppose this is one of Samus' more lacking areas.

 

[Litt]

Yeah, I guess... I suppose this is one of Samus' more lacking areas.

well, for example, if you're behind, you need to approach

Incorrect sir, one must not approach at any time because that is predictable. It is the same as saying, if you are behind you need to approach. You need to approach to the point where a reaction will be elicited by your opponent or in a way that does not put you in harms way or puts you in a situation where you are on the losing end. This means restablishing neutral and just winning that many more times where it counts there to make the come back. If you are losing, you can't approach because you will get read, you can't not approach because you are losing, so the only option is to get your head more into the game and bring it.