Get rid of stadium, bring back brinstar.

[Candles]

Stadium is dumb cuz

• weird 30 second stalemates
• drill shine infinites
• walls haxing away kills
• strengthening space animal's dominance

Brinstar has none of these things and promotes a more aggressive play style.

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

Why not just go to 5 neutral stages and 0 CPs?

 

[mythbust4000]

Lets get rid of battlefield and FD and do pokefloats and rainbow cruise.

 

[iAmMatt]

Brinstar has:
lava
weird fleshy things that split the stage and cause hitlag, often bringing combos to a halt
uneven surfaces, which again breaks up combos

Pokemon also provides the opportunity for less aggressive players to have a viable cp option. As a really gimmicky marth, I almost always cp to stadium, regardless of whether or not my opponent mains a spacie. Also, at this point in the metagame, removing a stage and adding a new one would be a brutal change. So many factors would change, and I'm willing to bet that a few pro players would drop the game entirely.

 

[Bones0]

Stadium is dumb cuz

• weird 30 second stalemates
• drill shine infinites
• walls haxing away kills
• strengthening space animal's dominance

Brinstar has none of these things and promotes a more aggressive play style.

Brinstar has the first and third thing you mentioned...

 

[Jenna Zant]

Brinstar has the lava acid stuff at the bottom of the stage, preventing edgeguards from working, and making you live longer.

 

[iAmMatt]

Brinstar has the lava acid stuff at the bottom of the stage, preventing edgeguards from working, and making you live longer.

Alternatively, the lava can kill you if you're at a high enough percent, while on pokemon you could just recover.

 

[Candles]

Brinstar has the first and third thing you mentioned...

Uhh no. Standing still is a terrible idea when the lava is high, as it leaves you vulnerable to a quick aerial attack, and there are no walls on brinstar...

 

[Bones0]

Uhh no. Standing still is a terrible idea when the lava is high, as it leaves you vulnerable to a quick aerial attack, and there are no walls on brinstar...

When the acid rises, you get trapped on whichever plat you're closest to. All you can do is jump at your opponent, which is really easy to punish. You can also break the stage and camp on one of the sides, again, forcing the opponent to jump at you or wait.

There's no walls, but if you trigger the ceiling glitch the acid drags you downward and kills you.

 

[Candles]

When the acid rises, you get trapped on whichever plat you're closest to. All you can do is jump at your opponent, which is really easy to punish. You can also break the stage and camp on one of the sides, again, forcing the opponent to jump at you or wait.

There's no walls, but if you trigger the ceiling glitch the acid drags you downward and kills you.

Nah fam no one just stands there when the lava is high

 

[Bones0]

Nah fam no one just stands there when the lava is high

You've obviously never played on Brinstar in tournament so I don't know how you feel qualified to claim that.

 

[Candles]

You've obviously never played on Brinstar in tournament so I don't know how you feel qualified to claim that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXCxKl1njyI

 

[Delta Chae]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXCxKl1njyI

He was talking about you. Your profile states that you are only 15 so you wouldn't have even been able to play the game with any reasonable degree of competence during that stage of Melee's metagame. Also: 2008 =/= 2016. People's playstyles back then were anything but optimal. People typically camp out the fire and and rock transformations on Stadium so what makes you think that they wouldn't do the same with something (In this case the acid) that alters the pace of the match even more than both of these transformations?

 

[Dark Byte]

He was talking about you. Your profile states that you are only 15 so you wouldn't have even been able to play the game with any reasonable degree of competence during that stage of Melee's metagame. Also: 2008 =/= 2016. People's playstyles back then were anything but optimal. People typically camp out the fire and and rock transformations on Stadium so what makes you think that they wouldn't do the same with something (In this case the acid) that alters the pace of the match even more than both of these transformations?

It might not have been optimal, but that match was baller dude

 

[Delta Chae]

It might not have been optimal, but that match was baller dude

I'm not going to deny that but in today's metagame where people typically camp out the fire and rock transformations it's almost certain that they'd do the same with Brinstar's acid. Given that the FGC already complains about how long our sets take we don't need to introduce a variable that will only drag them out longer.

 

[rivers]

I mean, yeah, stadium is an illegal stage that pretends to be legal sometimes, but banning and replacing with Brinstar is not the answer. I miss the days when puff could counterpick to Mute City. That stage is so broken for her.

 

[Candles]

He was talking about you. Your profile states that you are only 15 so you wouldn't have even been able to play the game with any reasonable degree of competence during that stage of Melee's metagame. Also: 2008 =/= 2016. People's playstyles back then were anything but optimal. People typically camp out the fire and and rock transformations on Stadium so what makes you think that they wouldn't do the same with something (In this case the acid) that alters the pace of the match even more than both of these transformations?

How is it relevant whether or not I have played Brinstar in a tournament match? That doesn't change the fact that it has been done before.
People camp out the fire and rock transformations because they create walls, and with walls come little nooks to camp in. Brinstar has nothing like that, as when the lava reaches it's peak everyone is well within eachother's range as shown in the video.

 

[rivers]

How is it relevant whether or not I have played Brinstar in a tournament match? That doesn't change the fact that it has been done before.
People camp out the fire and rock transformations because they create walls, and with walls come little nooks to camp in. Brinstar has nothing like that, as when the lava reaches it's peak everyone is well within eachother's range as shown in the video.

Yes, it's been done before but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

The point is a hazard appears that can **** players over royally. When the fire transformation happens, people just wait it out because it's ****ing dumb to fight there. You're right that the waiting wouldn't happen on Brinstar. But being forced into close quarters with zero escape is a terrible idea.

 

[Cg3po]

I'd say ban stadium turn fod and Yoshi's into cps

 

[-ACE-]

I'd say ban stadium turn fod and Yoshi's into cps

I like this a lot but I'd be more for fod and fd as cp's. Or really just 5 stages. **** cp's.

 

[Delta Chae]

How is it relevant whether or not I have played Brinstar in a tournament match? That doesn't change the fact that it has been done before.
People camp out the fire and rock transformations because they create walls, and with walls come little nooks to camp in. Brinstar has nothing like that, as when the lava reaches it's peak everyone is well within eachother's range as shown in the video.

Just because something has been done before does not make it a good idea. PokeFloats used to be a legal counterpick and it's almost universally agreed that was a terrible idea.

 

[Candles]

Yes, it's been done before but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

The point is a hazard appears that can **** players over royally. When the fire transformation happens, people just wait it out because it's ****ing dumb to fight there. You're right that the waiting wouldn't happen on Brinstar. But being forced into close quarters with zero escape is a terrible idea.

Just because something has been done before does not make it a good idea. PokeFloats used to be a legal counterpick and it's almost universally agreed that was a terrible idea.

I never claimed that because it had been done before it is a good idea. I said that it had been done before because someone's argument for why brinstar shouldn't be legal was because I had never played a tournament game on brinstar, and I was explaining why that argument was invalid. Read the context before you reply pl0x thanks.

 

[-ACE-]

Bones is correct. Some of us have actually played tournament matches there many times back when it was legal. Not everyone waits for the tree on PS, but most people do. Getting around a hazard while attacking is too easily punished. Nowadays it would be even worse as people do a better job of avoiding sub-optimal approaches when they can help it.

 

[Ravengeance]

Although I agree stadium isn't the perfect stage it's still overall a better option than brinstar. It seems you have some biased against the spacie dominance especially since you mentioned drill shine infinites as part that's wrong with stadium. If Sakurai gave us no transformation stadium we would be playing on that. Stadium is still only a counter pick stage so unless you are playing a bo5 you could always ban stadium if you hate it that much. The acid alone is reason enough that brinstar is worse than stadium. Having an object to tech off of to survive is much less janky imo than having an entire blast zone removed for parts of the match.
I'm not staying stadium is perfect and I get why you don't like it. I just think it's overall the lesser of two evils. At least it isn't Sm4sh where they have legal stages that the transformations have walk-offs. We could be much worse off.

 

[Diosama]

lmao of course the puff main wants brinstar to come back and stadium to be ditched

no stadium = puff/floaties become too strong

Back when mang0 was a beast with puff, he was asked how to counter his character, the answer he gave was stadium.

We need this stage or else 666xx is one step closer to becoming a reality

 

[-ACE-]

Hbox is most scared of mango's fox on yoshi's tho. Both YS and PS are really good for fox (style dependent). Really DL is too but no one camps to the max (DL is the neutral game stage of the bunch and fox has the best neutral, especially there) thankfully lol. Those 3 stages being legal adds to fox's top tier privilege imo, but you really only see this effect at high level. With that said, I definitely don't want to see 666xx either LOL. But I'd probably ban PS if I could (the transformations bring the tipping point, although I do not see it as a really bad stage).

 

[Delta Chae]

I never claimed that because it had been done before it is a good idea. I said that it had been done before because someone's argument for why brinstar shouldn't be legal was because I had never played a tournament game on brinstar, and I was explaining why that argument was invalid. Read the context before you reply pl0x thanks.

Your original post was arguing that it would be a good idea to replace Stadium with Brinstar. Please do not act as if every post exists in a vacuum because it doesn't. Also: claiming that you never said it was a good idea directly contradicts your original statement.

 

[Candles]

lmao of course the puff main wants brinstar to come back and stadium to be ditched

no stadium = puff/floaties become too strong

Back when mang0 was a beast with puff, he was asked how to counter his character, the answer he gave was stadium.

We need this stage or else 666xx is one step closer to becoming a reality

Yo imma be real that is 100% my reasoning lmao

 

[Diosama]

Hbox is most scared of mango's fox on yoshi's tho. Both YS and PS are really good for fox (style dependent). Really DL is too but no one camps to the max (DL is the neutral game stage of the bunch and fox has the best neutral, especially there) thankfully lol. Those 3 stages being legal adds to fox's top tier privilege imo, but you really only see this effect at high level. With that said, I definitely don't want to see 666xx either LOL. But I'd probably ban PS if I could (the transformations bring the tipping point, although I do not see it as a really bad stage).

Fox is good on every stage, yknow, not much you can do about that, but floaties are have no real downsides are the other 4 stages. If we took away stadium, bo3 would be dumb bc then they'd just ban yoshis, and in bo5, you'd only be able to counterpick and win once.

The stages are fine the way they are now, I mean, brinstar would be dope, more power to ganon, but it's not a worthwile replacement.

Yo imma be real that is 100% my reasoning lmao

At least you're honest lol