Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RingJ5]

So? We know that Nintendo and Square had to have made deals related to Geno back then for his Mii costume, so that still helps us.

Not when pretty decisive, hard evidence for at least one DLC character is in the base game, yet Geno’s a Spirit.

If there was no evidence like the “Spirit folders” or character-music sorting, then I’d be more inclined to think Spirits don’t deconfirm since it’d imply that DLC wasn’t chosen until around the time the game went gold, but that framework essentially implies that all the big deals are done.

Why not just say that the DLC was chosen at the same time they announce it if it was done that early? Especially if the intention was to get fans not to pester them.

They basically did when explaining why Rex is a Mii Costume, but many have been trying to interpret that differently because it implies that Spirits actually do deconfirm if things were planned that far back.

If Geno weren't the Square rep at all, then why would the name be passed around through various insiders and sources and not immediately be scoffed at, the tweet from NOA, or even going through all this friggen effort for just a glorified jpeg and nothing else? I call serious BS on this as it would be a serious step back from the Mii Fighter costume and I refuse to believe that Sakurai would settle for less at this point given he and the fans wanted him for over a decade.

See, that’s a lot of good evidence, and I’m not disputing it in the slightest. I’m just getting really hung up on the whole “we essentially might know the Fighter Pass contents already due to things either left in or missing from the game... yet Geno is just a Spirit” thing.

I’d seriously love to be wrong about this, because I seriously want that timed-hit gameplay, but the more evidence for other characters that the datamine finds, the more worried I get.

Still, that in no way means he’ll never get into Ultimate, I could absolutely see a deal being struck to make him a non-pass fighter after how much hype around him has happened these last couple months.

 

[coolcat12347]

Wait a second.

Unless they're Ike's character spirits, there are spirits of both his designs, taken from the original games.

 

[Deleted member]

I think they say this because in the last direct Sakurai calls Spirits; "Characters that lost their physical forms, except fighters." And with WFT and Kaptain K Rool's spirits, the WFT is named after the tree pose and Kaptain K Rool I guess is different than King K Rool.

I keep thinking of ways around it too but that's what Sakurai said. He's been purposely misleading in the past so it would be absolutely fantastic if Geno still got in but it makes sense that most people would think Spirits deconfirm :/ I hope PolarPanda's leaker is right, since that other "leaker" that talked with Verg is almost 100% sure Geno is not DLC, and Verg didn't say otherwise.

The "leaker" that Vergeben talked to is full of BS. Remember, he talked to LoZ18 and Hitagi, who are also full of BS. Geno is the only SE character who Vergeben mentioned was one of the names he has heard, meaning that if he was to agree with xenother, he would contradict his statement. There is no reason to believe that "leaker" and spirits are the replacement of trophies, and Mewtwo and Lucas were trophies before they were DLC. When Sakurai referred to spirits as "characters who could not be made playable," he could have just meant at that time. Especially with Nintendo choosing the DLC, they wouldn't give a **** about who is a spirit, if they propose a character, they propose a character, they wouldn't bother looking through 1,297 png's to see if the character they proposed can't be playable

 

[TheCJBrine]

The datamine doesn't even show evidence for any characters other than Banjo-Kazooie (though it could've been a mixup on Nintendo's or the developers' parts so it isn't 100% (and apparently the Rare Ltd. credits are because the original composer for the DKC tracks would be from them...I was told this and saw the mixup possibility in the Ultimate Discussion thread...))

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Wait a second.

Unless they're Ike's character spirits, there are spirits of both his designs, taken from the original games.

I think most characters that have multiple costumes also have multiple character spirits

 

[RingJ5]

The datamine doesn't even show evidence for any characters other than Banjo-Kazooie, and even then it could've been a mixup so it isn't 100% (and apparently the Rare Ltd. credits are because the original composer for the DKC tracks would be from them...)

Spoiler

Monster Hunter has pretty decisive evidence as well, with their music being listed with other character-specific tracks for fighters already in the game.

 

[EarlTamm]

Not when pretty decisive, hard evidence for at least one DLC character is in the base game, yet Geno’s a Spirit.

If there was no evidence like the “Spirit folders” or character-music sorting, then I’d be more inclined to think Spirits don’t deconfirm since it’d imply that DLC wasn’t chosen until around the time the game went gold, but that framework essentially implies that all the big deals are done.



They basically did when explaining why Rex is a Mii Costume, but many have been trying to interpret that differently because it implies that Spirits actually do deconfirm if things were planned that far back.



See, that’s a lot of good evidence, and I’m not disputing it in the slightest. I’m just getting really hung up on the whole “we essentially might know the Fighter Pass contents already due to things either left in or missing from the game... yet Geno is just a Spirit” thing.

I’d seriously love to be wrong about this, because I seriously want that timed-hit gameplay, but the more evidence for other characters that the datamine finds, the more worried I get.

Still, that in no way means he’ll never get into Ultimate, I could absolutely see a deal being struck to make him a non-pass fighter after how much hype around him has happened these last couple months.

The whole spirits deconfirm thing kinda is mute when you consider that future DLC spirits could be put in to keep the surprise, especially for more popular or obvious characters. Say Bandanna Dee was DLC and they did not put in his spirit, that would shoot off way to many red flags.

 

[coolcat12347]

But...
If that's the case, why is there a spirit of Dracula X Chronicles Richter?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Spoiler

Monster Hunter has pretty decisive evidence as well, with their music being listed with other character-specific tracks for fighters already in the game.

Any link to this?

 

[Deleted member]

For the spirits, I think Sakurai just wants to make sure every important Nintendo character, or a character who is important to Nintendo, is represented, and then they can choose which characters to make DLC

 

[bardbowman]

It’s possible that Sakurai’s comment about spirits was referencing the in-game lore of WoL, which of course, doesn’t have any relevance with DLC fighters (who presumably won’t play a part in that story).

 

[meleebrawler]

Spoiler

Monster Hunter has pretty decisive evidence as well, with their music being listed with other character-specific tracks for fighters already in the game.

Spoiler

Look buddy, I love Monster Hunter and think he's pretty likely on his own merits, but how do we know this isn't just a boo-boo from the devs putting music in the wrong place?

 

[RingJ5]

Any link to this?

Spoiler

Look buddy, I love Monster Hunter and think he's pretty likely on his own merits, but how do we know this isn't just a boo-boo from the devs putting music in the wrong place?

Spoiler

Can’t really link it due to Nintendo taking down all the soundtrack uploads, but Monster Hunter is literally the only non-playable franchise in the game with a unique prefix for its song files. I forget if the others just use “misc” or have no prefix at all, but MH tracks both start with... well, “MH”.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Not when pretty decisive, hard evidence for at least one DLC character is in the base game, yet Geno’s a Spirit.

If there was no evidence like the “Spirit folders” or character-music sorting, then I’d be more inclined to think Spirits don’t deconfirm since it’d imply that DLC wasn’t chosen until around the time the game went gold, but that framework essentially implies that all the big deals are done.



They basically did when explaining why Rex is a Mii Costume, but many have been trying to interpret that differently because it implies that Spirits actually do deconfirm if things were planned that far back.



See, that’s a lot of good evidence, and I’m not disputing it in the slightest. I’m just getting really hung up on the whole “we essentially might know the Fighter Pass contents already due to things either left in or missing from the game... yet Geno is just a Spirit” thing.

I’d seriously love to be wrong about this, because I seriously want that timed-hit gameplay, but the more evidence for other characters that the datamine finds, the more worried I get.

Still, that in no way means he’ll never get into Ultimate, I could absolutely see a deal being struck to make him a non-pass fighter after how much hype around him has happened these last couple months.

I dunno...if the Rex thing is the only evidence pointing to DLC being planned that far back, then I don't think that's conclusive enough. XC2 released in December last year, and by the way Sakurai explained it, he just missed out on the DLC decision talks. Which would mean those happened sometime late last year, but not necessarily three years ago.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the DLC planned that far back. There may have been some talk, but nothing definite. I will agree though that if it was, back when the spirits were also decided, then yes, they would disconfirm. However, I'm still of the opinion that two rounds of decision were done: one for base game in 2015, and one for DLC after base game stuff (like spirits) was locked in, but before 2018.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Best thing to do is to Wait until the first DLC announcement to claim if Spirits does deconfirm or not.

Spoiler

Look buddy, I love Monster Hunter and think he's pretty likely on his own merits, but how do we know this isn't just a boo-boo from the devs putting music in the wrong place?

Yeah, Rathalos is in so isn't really necessary to have a DLC character about it. Should we claim that Goku, Mach Rider, Style Savvy are the DLC just because they have Music in the game? I really don't think so.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Best thing to do is to Wait until the first DLC announcement to claim if Spirits does deconfirm or not.

Yeah, Rathalos is in so isn't really necessary to have a DLC character about it. Should we claim that Goku, Mach Rider, Style Savvy are the DLC just because they have Music in the game? I really don't think so.

People are already claiming Style Savvy is DLC

 

[DaxMasterix]

People are claiming Style Savvy is DLC

Yeah, that's why I named it. Chill people Chill, wait a little bit more!

 

[Deleted member]

People are already claiming Style Savvy is DLC

Dataminers or people on 4chan?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Dataminers or people on 4chan?

Neither would know for certain at this point

 

[MattX20]

Ugh, I just wish Sakurai just teased or revealed who the first season pass character was.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Remember the "2 Nintendo Directs on November"?

 

[NobleClamtasm]

This is the way I look at the whole Spirits debacle: Before development, Sakurai and Nintendo selected the initial starting roster and they stick with that throughout development (this is confirmed in the latest Sakurai interview). All we know is, Geno did not make it into this initial phase. During development, they created spirits as a way to reference tons of Nintendo characters, enemies and items. This makes it very natural for a character like Geno to have a spirit. Every spirit is either Nintendo related, or franchise related (ex: metal gear franchise has its own set of spirits). So no, the lack of a Goku spirit does not increase his chances at all.

If we were to assume that the DLC has been selected after development, then what they have decided to make a spirit should be no indication of what they select for DLC. I guess the question in everyone's mind is whether or not Nintendo is so anal as to preserve the "pattern" that every playable character does not have a traditional spirit. In actuality, this type of pattern has been broken in Smash 4, as Mewtwo and Lucas had trophies before they became DLC. So yeah, Geno is still very much on the table for DLC.

If Sakurai really didn't want Geno as a playable character, he'd be an assist trophy.

 

[meleebrawler]

Here's something interesting pertaining to Geno (Warning: contains full list of online avatars, including some World Of Light stuff):


For anyone who doesn't want to look, the avatars are organized based on status and/or franchise. Geno is part of the Mario avatars that aren't fighters nor assists. So if there was any doubt left about him being a Mario character...

Edit: Ugh, the quote didn't bring the image for some reason. I found it in the K. Rool social, which apparently came from the Bandana Dee board first.

 

[Deleted member]

But to bring up a case, Isaac actually had a downgrade back in Smash 4 as his Assist didn't return and if i'm correct, both his tracks didn't either.

I think the reason he wasn't in Smash 4 as a playable character or assist trophy was because the 3DS couldn't handle his psynergy, but GS was represented by music tracks either way. He definitely got an update in Ultimate, being an assist and having a Mii costume

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, that's why I named it. Chill people Chill, wait a little bit more!

They're freaking out because of the one shopkeeper spirit.

But yes, Chill please.

 

[paper roxy]

Goku, Mach Rider, Style Savvy are the DLC just because they have Music in the game? I really don't think so.

wait is there actually dragon ball music in smash ultimate???

 

[Deleted member]

This is the way I look at the whole Spirits debacle: Before development, Sakurai and Nintendo selected the initial starting roster and they stick with that throughout development (this is confirmed in the latest Sakurai interview). All we know is, Geno did not make it into this initial phase. During development, they created spirits as a way to reference tons of Nintendo characters, enemies and items. This makes it very natural for a character like Geno to have a sticker. Every sticker is either Nintendo related, or franchise related (ex: metal gear franchise has its own set of stickers). So no, the lack of a Goku sticker does not increase his chances at all.

If we were to assume that the DLC has been selected after development, then what they have decided to make a sticker should be no indication of what they select for DLC. I guess the question in everyone's mind is whether or not Nintendo is so anal as to preserve the "pattern" that every playable character does not have a traditional sticker. In actuality, this type of pattern has been broken in Smash 4, as Mewtwo and Lucas had trophies before they became DLC. So yeah, Geno is still very much on the table for DLC.

If Sakurai really didn't want Geno as a playable character, he'd be an assist trophy.

This makes me feel more positively about Ninten

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I really hope people aren't confusing spirits with the online profile pictures.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

wait is there actually dragon ball music in smash ultimate???

Yuyuki, not Dragon Ball.

 

[Burr.]

wai-wai-wai-wait. hol up. what's this i hear about datamining supporting Banjo's Inclusion?

 

[DIY]

This makes me feel more positively about Ninten

I am still legitimately stunned that neither Ninten or Shadow were selected as echo fighters for the base game. I would have bet any amount of money that at least one of them would be.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

wai-wai-wai-wait. hol up. what's this i hear about datamining supporting Banjo's Inclusion?

Long story short, name files for the JP releases of Blast Corps and JFG have been discovered.

 

[Deleted member]

This is the way I look at the whole Spirits debacle: Before development, Sakurai and Nintendo selected the initial starting roster and they stick with that throughout development (this is confirmed in the latest Sakurai interview). All we know is, Geno did not make it into this initial phase. During development, they created spirits as a way to reference tons of Nintendo characters, enemies and items. This makes it very natural for a character like Geno to have a sticker. Every sticker is either Nintendo related, or franchise related (ex: metal gear franchise has its own set of stickers). So no, the lack of a Goku sticker does not increase his chances at all.

If we were to assume that the DLC has been selected after development, then what they have decided to make a sticker should be no indication of what they select for DLC. I guess the question in everyone's mind is whether or not Nintendo is so anal as to preserve the "pattern" that every playable character does not have a traditional sticker. In actuality, this type of pattern has been broken in Smash 4, as Mewtwo and Lucas had trophies before they became DLC. So yeah, Geno is still very much on the table for DLC.

If Sakurai really didn't want Geno as a playable character, he'd be an assist trophy.

wai-wai-wai-wait. hol up. what's this i hear about datamining supporting Banjo's Inclusion?

After hearing this, I think Banjo-Kazooie will be a spirit, but they will also be DLC

 

[Burr.]

Long story short, name files for the JP releases of Blast Corps and JFG have been discovered.

...

N A N I ?

 

[KoopaSaki]

Gotta say I would welcome Banjo and Kazooie with open arms. They are my #3 most wanted character in the game besides Geno and Isaac. I hope nintendo actually will pull it off and Banjo will return!!! :D

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I hope PolarPanda's leaker is right, since that other "leaker" that talked with Verg is almost 100% sure Geno is not DLC, and Verg didn't say otherwise.

Well, Verge can't deny or approve the people that say Geno isn't the Square rep because if he does, then he's going to be getting Square employees in trouble. It's an answer if he either denies or approves, and that means it'll still get an employee or two in trouble. He knows he's being observed by Square employees, so all he can do right now is sit back and watch without saying a word. Verge did mention Geno and gave a small hint about him, so think about that.

However, PolarPanda doesn't want us trusting insiders at the moment, and I'll take his word.

 

[Burr.]

Banjo and Geno have been my top most wanted and i'd happily love to have Banjo

 

[DaxMasterix]

At the moment I'm pretty Confident with Geno and Porky, I'm a huge Mother fan also..

 

[Deleted member]

At the moment I'm pretty Confident with Geno and Porky, I'm a huge Mother fan also..

SAME HERE! I want Geno and a new Mother rep, and I want that rep to be Ninten, but I will be happy with any new Mother rep

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Oh, most definitely. I never got the Chocobo hat at all, or any other costumes for that matter--they could be bought out of the packs for .99 cents, IIRC. I'm positive that every Geno fan bought that costume, and there ARE quite a few of us. If you consider the sales of Smash 4, even if those who bought the costume only hit five thousand...that's a 5,000 dollars right there. Now multiply that by 6 if he's a character. Add to that the already huge install base of Smash Ultimate, and the potential for profit looks pretty darn good.

I totally forgot about this.
As of March 2018, Smash 3DS/Wii U has a total of 14+ million sales. (Presuming over half of the players bought Cloud's or all DLC, possibly within 7 million.) Smash Ultimate will at least be over 20 million, probably even higher than that. If Geno was DLC, I think his DLC character and amiibo profit would outsell Cloud's Smash 4 DLC and amiibo profit because of the larger amount of sales compared to Smash on the 3DS and Wii U. In this case, Geno would be making more money than Cloud. Wow...

You know, Geno's budget could be used for making Super Mario RPG 2. Please, let's hope this would be the case.
You know we're gonna be wanting a SMRPG sequel if Geno makes it for DLC.