Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Pazzo.]

Meh, I don't think Smash should be limited by, "Did this series ever release on Nintendo?" So long as it's a video game, I think it's fair.

Doom may have help start FPSes, but Halo helped popularize them by actual being a good FPS on consoles. Along with that, Halo 2 helped kickstart console online multiplayer.

Besides this, we already have our FPS rep.

 

[Kurri ★]

Besides this, we already have our FPS rep.

No...

 

[Pazzo.]

No...

You miss the part where they handed out humor or something?

Obviously Duck Hunt isn't a FPS character. I made the joke over how you shoot from a first-person perspective in the game...

 

[Kurri ★]

You miss the part where they handed out humor or something?

Obviously Duck Hunt isn't a FPS character. I made the joke over how you shoot from a first-person perspective in the game...

No I got the joke... it wasn't funny

 

[A Distant Demon]

No I got the joke... it wasn't funny

Yes it was



Sure is convenient that people are talking about icons when Source gaming made an article and a poll about who is an allstar..
and I konw all of you looove polls if the time of the ballot is anything to go by
the article
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/11/20/sg-choice-9-3rd-all-stars/

the poll is at the bottom

 

[Kurri ★]

Yes it was



Sure is convenient that people are talking about icons when Source gaming made an article and a poll about who is an allstar..
and I konw all of you looove polls if the time of the ballot is anything to go by
the article
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/11/20/sg-choice-9-3rd-all-stars/

the poll is at the bottom

My point. Master Chief in Smash make it it happen.

I could see it right now. Trailer starts out in space and everyone thinks "Oh, boy! Wolf!"
But then you hear Gregorian chants, and giant Halo out in Space.
"Smash Bros x Halo" in big bold letters.

I will cry tears of joy the day that happens

 

[Deleted member]

They may be one of the most respected but they are far from most iconic or well known, they aren't a square enix, capcom, namco or sega, not even close.

Super Mario 64 defined the 3D platformer and collectathon, Banjo simply followed in it's tracks, it didn't really define anything.

I'll give you the eggs but that's about it honestly, Transforming wouldn't work in a smash setting and flying characters are far from a new concept. I'd hardly say they are made for smash and I don't see how they are even slightly a "perfect fit" it's like when people say that about shovel knight

I'm sorry you weren't able to play Banjo-Kazooie during the 64 era, it's something worth experiencing.

SM64 created the genre, Banjo perfected it. To this day people debate over which is better overall, since Mario was more platforming, and B-K more collecting and exploring. It's unanimously agreed Banjo had more charm and the better OST though. But to stand up to the titan that is SM64 is pretty ****ing intense, considering that game is industry defining.

For Rare to compare to Mario, idk how you can say that's not on par with Capcom or SE. I know they're nothing now, but back then, they WERE among the best of the best. Banjo is not their only IP you know? You can fill up an entire Smash roster with nothing but Rare characters. Banjo is just the face of the company for being their most recognizable icon.

Don't forget that Rare made DKC and Goldeneye. Goldeneye was Halo before Halo was ever a thing.

 

[A Distant Demon]

My point. Master Chief in Smash make it it happen.

I could see it right now. Trailer starts out in space and everyone thinks "Oh, boy! Wolf!"
But then you hear Gregorian chants, and giant Halo out in Space.
"Smash Bros x Halo" in big bold letters.

I will cry tears of joy the day that happens

I would also be hyped AF. Wihtout Halo 1 and 2 I wouldn't still be playing video games. Seeing the Chief playable would blow my mind from pure nostalgia.

Of course he is an absurd choice with no shot taht is downright illogical but nothing I want a lot ever seems to have a chance

 

[Pazzo.]

I'd say Banjo is pretty well known.

He's not on the level of PAC-MAN or Mega Man, but he's perhaps closer to where Cloud sits.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I'm sorry you weren't able to play Banjo-Kazooie during the 64 era, it's something worth experiencing.

SM64 created the genre, Banjo perfected it. To this day people debate over which is better overall, since Mario was more platforming, and B-K more collecting and exploring. It's unanimously agreed Banjo had more charm and the better OST though. But to stand up to the titan that is SM64 is pretty ****ing intense, considering that game is industry defining.

For Rare to compare to Mario, idk how you can say that's not on par with Capcom or SE. I know they're nothing now, but back then, they WERE among the best of the best. Banjo is not their only IP you know? You can fill up an entire Smash roster with nothing but Rare characters. Banjo is just the face of the company for being their most recognizable icon.

Don't forget that Rare made DKC and Goldeneye. Goldeneye was Halo before Halo was ever a thing.

Okay? But that's kinda irrelevant, it still didn't revolutionise anything really, yes it improved upon what SM64 did but that's all

Capcom and Squares games were still better selling at the time though, yes they made good games but that doesn't mean much in this context, those 2 were more well known even then.

I'd say Banjo is pretty well known.

He's not on the level of PAC-MAN or Mega Man, but he's perhaps closer to where Cloud sits.

Eh, I don't think you can really compare a dead n64 series to the franchise that made RPGs what they are and is still relevant to this day

 

[Kurri ★]

Okay? But that's kinda irrelevant, it still didn't revolutionise anything really, yes it improved upOn what SM64 did but that's all

Capcom and Squares games were still better selling at the time though, yes they made good games but that doesn't mean much in this context, those 2 were more well known even then.

I haven't played Banjo and I can assure you it had a huge impact. It was pretty much the most popular Collectathon, and as far as I know, the only one that did it right. SM64 didn't do collecting nearly as well as Banjo did.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I haven't played Banjo and I can assure you it had a huge impact. It was pretty much the most popular Collectathon, and as far as I know, the only one that did it right. SM64 didn't do collecting nearly as well as Banjo did.

It still didn't pioneer the genre like 64 did though and I really doubt the impact was that big considering both SM64 and DK64 both sold way more than it

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah...Kinda have to say Banjo Kazooie isn't really good enough for Smash. Not even half of the franchise's games got constant praise, but 2, it's a dead franchise too

 

[Arcanir]

I'd say Banjo is pretty well known.

He's not on the level of PAC-MAN or Mega Man, but he's perhaps closer to where Cloud sits.

They're not, Cloud as a character has had a lot more reach then Banjo has.

Cloud's game on its own was a huge hit, it sold over 9 million not including re-releases or downloads and it's easily one of Final Fantasy's most well known games. He's also made a number of appearances across the years in games and media like Advent Children, Last Order: Final Fantasy VII, Kingdom Hearts, spinoffs like Dissidia, secondary material like Crisis Core, merchandise like figurines, and so on. Cloud as a character is very well known, and even after the PS/N64 era ended, the character still manages to have a strong presence.

Banjo is not to that level. We love his games, but they didn't give the character the reach that FF7 did for Cloud, and he doesn't have nearly as many appearances under his belt. He also has unfortunately had trouble in recent years as his other games fell into obscurity and his entire franchise has been dormant, so really, his presence is pretty limited by comparison.

Now, I love Banjo and I'd be happy if they managed to figure out something to get the character in Smash, but if we're trying to say he's iconic to the level of Cloud, Sonic or Mega Man, he's not going to reach that. His presence on gaming is more limited then any of them, and that's just the case of his situation.

 

[Burruni]

I haven't played Banjo and I can assure you it had a huge impact. It was pretty much the most popular Collectathon, and as far as I know, the only one that did it right. SM64 didn't do collecting nearly as well as Banjo did.

It's impact was "Man this is like SM64 but better in about every way." Legitimately one of the best N64 games.
And then Tooie, which was "Man, why can't ALL sequels be like this? Where it feels like it's just an expansion to the first game!"

And then 2 GBA games happened that even a fair chunk of Banjo fans don't/didn't know about.

Then Nuts and Bolts which was "where's my banjo game? Is it under this lego game that has rareware characters slapped on it?"

It's no Megaman. It's no Final Fantasy. It's no Street Fighter. It's no Castlevania. It's no Bomberman.

 

[Pazzo.]

They're not, Cloud as a character has had a lot more reach then Banjo has.

Cloud's game on its own was a huge hit, it sold over 9 million not including re-releases or downloads and it's easily one of Final Fantasy's most well known games. He's also made a number of appearances across the years in games and media like Advent Children, Last Order: Final Fantasy VII, Kingdom Hearts, spinoffs like Dissidia, secondary material like Crisis Core, merchandise like figurines, and so on. Cloud as a character is very well known, and even after the PS/N64 era ended, the character still manages to have a strong presence.

Banjo is not to that level. We love his games, but they didn't give the character the reach that FF7 did for Cloud, and he doesn't have nearly as many appearances under his belt. He also has unfortunately had trouble in recent years as his other games fell into obscurity and his entire franchise has been dormant, so really, his presence is pretty limited by comparison.

Now, I love Banjo and I'd be happy if they managed to figure out something to get the character in Smash, but if we're trying to say he's iconic to the level of Cloud, Sonic or Mega Man, he's not going to reach that. His presence on gaming is more limited then any of them, and that's just the case of his situation.

Very true...

I'm thinking more in terms of how gamers recognize the character though. He's nowhere near as 'iconic' in a stricter sense, as you have pointed out.

 

[Burruni]

Very true...

I'm thinking more in terms of how gamers recognize the character though. He's nowhere near as 'iconic' in a stricter sense, as you have pointed out.

One other bit of perspective to keep in mind: Banjo-Kazooie is far more popular & recognizable in the West than the East.

For the fan poll for Melee, which was obviously region-exclusive to Japan, Banjo certainly did well to be ranked as the 8th most requested newcomer.

But then James Bond got #6.

That was at the very peak of relevancy and popularity. The duo and series have gone down since with a slight dip up with Nuts & Bolts from a financial standpoint.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah...Kinda have to say Banjo Kazooie isn't really good enough for Smash. Not even half of the franchise's games got constant praise, but 2, it's a dead franchise too

"I don't like them, therefore they're not good enough."

Nice opinion.

Two mainlines, three spinoffs. The mainlines all get constant praise.

What exactly makes them "not good enough for Smash"?

What exactly IS good enough for Smash? I gotta hear this...

 

[FalKoopa]

Say, do you think the bit about having a future (said about the Ice Climbers) applies to 3rd parties?

That would be bad for Banjo.

 

[Deleted member]

Two mainlines, three spinoffs. The mainlines all get constant praise.

And yet the most recent spin-off pretty much killed the series (or at least put it on a long hiatus).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Say, do you think the bit about having a future (said about the Ice Climbers) applies to 3rd parties?

That would be bad for Banjo.

Sakurai said third parties have to be special and can't be just anyone, so yes

 

[NintenZ]

Banjo... He hasn't had a game in seven years, while Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, Snake, and even Mega Man have gone on to have some sort of appearance in their respective franchises, while Banjo hasn't gotten any love in years. Kinda sad now that I think about it.

 

[Sceptile4Smash]

Ever since happened, everybody started to gain interest on some characters that were considered "impossible".
Lara Croft
People think Goku can actually happen now
Master Chief
Banjo can actually happen now (I think)
Sly Cooper
Deadpool (I'm serious, I actually saw some people who expect him to be in)
Spyro
Even though I would LOVE to see Lara Croft, Deadpool, Spyro and Sly Cooper in Smash, it's not going to happen. Just because is in the game, it doesn't mean every single game character has a chance to be in Smash. Lets not forget, Smash Bros is a Nintendo game with a couple of guest stars .

However, with Sakurai around, I could totally be wrong.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Ever since happened, everybody started to gain interest on some characters that were considered "impossible".
Lara Croft
People think Goku can actually happen now
Master Chief
Banjo can actually happen now (I think)
Sly Cooper
Deadpool (I'm serious, I actually saw some people who expect him to be in)
Spyro
Even though I would LOVE to see Lara Croft, Deadpool, Spyro and Sly Cooper in Smash, it's not going to happen. Just because is in the game, it doesn't mean every single game character has a chance to be in Smash. Lets not forget, Smash Bros is a Nintendo game with a couple of guest stars .

However, with Sakurai around, I could totally be wrong.

The only character there with a single chance is Lara, that's pretty much it

 

[A Distant Demon]

Spyro
.

It's not like he was a super obscure pick before Cloud. I haven't really seen any change here.

Sly Cooper

I have not seen a singe reference to this. But damn I would love it. The Ps2 trio (Sly, Jak, Ratchet) was even more influential on me than the PS1 duo (crash and spyro)

We need more sass in this game and a cane is an awesome weapon.
At least Banjo has a really strong nintendo history and support

Just because is in the game, it doesn't mean every single game character has a chance to be in Smash. Lets not forget, Smash Bros is a Nintendo game with a couple of guest stars .
.

A lot of people don seem to understand this unfortunately. . .

The only character there with a single chance is Lara, that's pretty much it

I would put Banjo way over Lara honestly.

Probably put Spyro above her too. Skylanders crossover and all that

 

[NintenZ]

The only female third-party that stands some sort of chance imo is... (You all know where this is going)

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

It's not like he was a super obscure pick before Cloud. I haven't really seen any change here.


I have not seen a singe reference to this. But damn I would love it. The Ps2 trio (Sly, Jak, Ratchet) was even more influential on me than the PS1 duo (crash and spyro)

We need more sass in this game and a cane is an awesome weapon.
At least Banjo has a really strong nintendo history and support

A lot of people don seem to understand this unfortunately. . .

I would put Banjo way over Lara honestly.

Probably put Spyro above her too. Skylanders crossover and all that

Tomb Raider was more influential to the industry and she's still relevant unlike Banjo, I guess I have to give you spyro though, I honestly forgot that spyro was a part of skylanders

 

[NintenZ]

Tomb Raider was more influential to the industry and she's still relevant unlike Banjo, I guess I have to give you spyro though, I honestly forgot that spyro was a part of skylanders

Uh yeah, one thing I want to bring up is how she basically sold her soul to Microsoft, so yeah...

 

[SonicMario]

While I personally think we may be done with 3rd Parties for the rest of Smash 4. I complied a bit of a list of who I think could be likely candidates based on our legendary or at the very least part of the mainstream consciousness that alot of people would be aware of. Using both already represented companies and those who could come in. Capcom is left off cause they already have Mega Man AND Ryu

Namco - Heihachi (There was something with Sakurai that said he was considered at one point. Meaning it's quite possible he's next in line should Namco get the nod for another rep. He has at least a Mii Costume though)
Sega - Tails (Let's face it, Sega does have many good franchises but none of them are as universally well-known as Sonic is. A 2nd Sonic rep is the most likely possibility should they give Sega anything more. And I feel Tails would be the most likely choice being the Sonic franchise's Luigi, I think Tails definitely counts as an Icon of gaming at least in terms of sidekicks)
Rare - Banjo & Kazooie (Should be no question)
Ubisoft - Rayman (See Banjo)
Square - Lara Croft (Square currently owns her, and there are actually a few Tomb Raider games on Nintendo systems. Though she certainly doesn't have the cushion of Cloud having the Final Fantasy franchise to represent)
Konami - Solid Snake (As much as Bomberman or Simon Belmont would be nice. Snake has veteran status on his side)

I think all of these are possibilities should there be 1 or 2 more 3rd Parties in DLC now. I personally think Snake and Rayman would be the frontrunners here though. Already being in Smash one way or another (Playable in a previous game, and a trophy that still leaves people scratching their head in the current game respectively) makes me feel they'd be the most likely if there's more 3rd Parties coming at all. Again I'm not expecting any more 3rd Parties after Cloud, but that's so if it happens I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Schnee117]

Uh yeah, one thing I want to bring up is how she basically sold her soul to Microsoft, so yeah...

And Banjo?
At least SE still own Lara.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Uh yeah, one thing I want to bring up is how she basically sold her soul to Microsoft, so yeah...

Just like Final Fantasy sold it's soul to Sony? At least ROTR is getting a multi-plat release eventually and with Square saying they'd be willing to support the NX a port there wouldn't be impossible.

 

[Burruni]

While I personally think we may be done with 3rd Parties for the rest of Smash 4. I complied a bit of a list of who I think could be likely candidates based on our legendary or at the very least part of the mainstream consciousness that alot of people would be aware of. Using both already represented companies and those who could come in. Capcom is left off cause they already have Mega Man AND Ryu

Namco - Heihachi (There was something with Sakurai that said he was considered at one point. Meaning it's quite possible he's next in line should Namco get the nod for another rep. He has at least a Mii Costume though)
Sega - Tails (Let's face it, Sega does have many good franchises but none of them are as universally well-known as Sonic is. A 2nd Sonic rep is the most likely possibility should they give Sega anything more. And I feel Tails would be the most likely choice being the Sonic franchise's Luigi, I think Tails definitely counts as an Icon of gaming at least in terms of sidekicks)
Rare - Banjo & Kazooie (Should be no question)
Ubisoft - Rayman (See Banjo)
Square - Lara Croft (Square currently owns her, and there are actually a few Tomb Raider games on Nintendo systems. Though she certainly doesn't have the cushion of Cloud having the Final Fantasy franchise to represent)
Konami - Solid Snake (As much as Bomberman or Simon Belmont would be nice. Snake has veteran status on his side)

I think all of these are possibilities should there be 1 or 2 more 3rd Parties in DLC now. I personally think Snake and Rayman would be the frontrunners here though. Already being in Smash one way or another (Playable in a previous game, and a trophy that still leaves people scratching their head in the current game respectively) makes me feel they'd be the most likely if there's more 3rd Parties coming at all. Again I'm not expecting any more 3rd Parties after Cloud, but that's so if it happens I'll be pleasantly surprised.

If Sonic was going to get a second character...

I'm sorry.

There's one choice who's king.

 

[NintenZ]

If Sonic was going to get a second character...

I'm sorry.

There's one choice who's king.

I know I'll get shot for this...
I'd say Amy.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I still wish Sakurai would clarify whether Mii Costumes deconfirm a character.

 

[Pakky]

Is Lara that important? Was she in PSASBR?

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Is Lara that important? Was she in PSASBR?

Tomb Raider is a decently big franchise that helped define 3D action-adventure games. Apparently they wanted her in PSASBR but because of the reboots release date they couldn't get her

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/...-battle-royale-if-its-release-date-was-later/

 

[Pakky]

Tomb Raider is a decently big franchise that helped define 3D action-adventure games. Apparently they wanted her in PSASBR but because of the reboots release date they couldn't get her

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/...-battle-royale-if-its-release-date-was-later/

Ah, didn't think she was in that. Wow the game's roster is bad. Not even being mean, it's just bad.

 

[Burruni]

I still wish Sakurai would clarify whether Mii Costumes deconfirm a character.

Don't worry.
It'll come in December.
I can't see us not getting K. Rool or Inklings.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Ah, didn't think she was in that. Wow the game's roster is bad. Not even being mean, it's just bad.

It really is, a playstation fighting crossover without Crash and Spyro? Wat?

Don't worry.
It'll come in December.
I can't see us not getting K. Rool or Inklings.

I could see it, I mean not to get into that debate but I don't understand the thought process of making that mii costume if they wanted to add the character, the ballot was pretty far along at that point so they had an idea of the results

 

[Pakky]

It really is, a playstation fighting crossover without Crash and Spyro? Wat?

Oh shoot, she uses guns. Then again she could be just a mixture of Zero Suit, and Sheik.