Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Kyu Puff]

Try to d-throw d-air and see how they DI. If they DI upwards and jump out, you can d-throw -> reverse d-air -> u-tilt -> b-air which does a lot of damage. If they DI away or towards you, just take advantage of it until they DI correctly. If they start mashing and trying to SDI stuff, it's kind of unpredictable and it might be better to just d-throw -> u-smash.

Something I've been thinking about: d-throw -> d-air -> sh u-air? If someone tries to DI upwards and jump out, the sh u-air might catch them out of their jump and then you could capitalize on them being in the air without a second jump?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Does the regular dthrow -> dair chaingrab work if Marth DIs away?

 

[ShootingStars]

Does the regular dthrow -> dair chaingrab work if Marth DIs away?

no i already tried this on marths

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

If they DI away you can reverse Dair them.

I find it advantageous to mix up between revers Dair and just dthrow dair on opponents.

I got asked at the last tournament by some samus I was "cging" if he could escape from the reverse Dair cg. I told him no. ^_^

 

[Kyu Puff]

^ lol, I told spawn how to escape d-throw d-air in friendlies before I had to play him in tournament... I probably shouldn't ever do that again...

no i already tried this on marths

I'm pretty sure it does.

 

[ChivalRuse]

If they DI away you can reverse Dair them.

Okay. But if they DI up, you basically can't regrab no matter what dair variation you do, right?

 

[Kyu Puff]

If they DI upwards, d-throw -> reverse d-air -> u-tilt -> b-air.

(yes, he can jump out if you try to grab)

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Whos GofG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrSzfOPysq0

New IC player?

He's actually NC's best active IC main. I haven't made a tournament in monthes.

Lozr makes people look scrubby.

 

[GofG]

oh **** hi

i suck

plur keeps trying to convince me i'm better or "more active"

i'm not

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Shut up john! You're the best!

 

[choknater]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jkK7naCMJs

omg!

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Pretty good!

 

[PEEF!]

LINK.

Almost zero video help for this. Link is very very hard to dthrowdair when they DI up and away I swear. Dthrow reverse dair is even harder vs him.

Help? Fly? Id like a good explaination of this mu. Links fair is a good approach if beyond sg range. Spaced jabs on shield are really tough. Boomerangs and bombs blow up all over. Edgeguarding is tough. Thats most of the problems other than a lack of reliable cg.

 

[ChivalRuse]

You can CC Link's projectiles. I like doing this because it allows you to immediately retaliate in a way of your choosing instead of you being stuck in your shield. You can effectively approach Link with wavecrouches and CC anything that isn't fsmash/dsmash or up-b (you can react to those with your shield and punish OOS).

Desynched iceblocks/blizzard are a good approach. You want to force Link in the air where he's immobile by comparison with his agile counterpart YL.

 

[GofG]

is this also a video c&c thread?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UV9OHnTagU

someone tell me what I was doing wrong, and then why the hell i started winning

as far as i can tell i just started getting lucky with predicting **** out of grab, EVERY TIME, and otherwise i would have lost

edit: my second death, that turnaround ice block was obviously supposed to be a b sideways

 

[PEEF!]

You can CC Link's projectiles. I like doing this because it allows you to immediately retaliate in a way of your choosing instead of you being stuck in your shield. You can effectively approach Link with wavecrouches and CC anything that isn't fsmash/dsmash or up-b (you can react to those with your shield and punish OOS).

Desynched iceblocks/blizzard are a good approach. You want to force Link in the air where he's immobile by comparison with his agile counterpart YL.

I can counter fair out of crouch?

How would you suggest punishing once I do wavecrouch a bomb or boomerang, but he is not in dsmash, jab or grab range? Wavedash again out of the cc?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Link is a really difficult match-up in my opinion. :/

You can't d-throw d-air him. Supposedly d-throw (and d-throw f-smash regrab) work, but I don't think they work past medium %. He's also surprisingly hard to grab. I'll try to remember how this match-up works and then post more.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Peef, the trick is to shield if he throws projectiles from long range and CC if he throws them at you while you're approaching with a wavedash. Here's what it looks like:

You can visualize it like below.

M [------] X [------] A

The M is where the Ice Climbers start out, the area inside the brackets are the distance of one wavedash, the X is where the projectile hits you, and the A is where Link is.

If he throws a projectile at you when you are at position M, you can shield it. Wavedash out of shield and CC when you get to X. Usually a Link proficient with projectiles will do some kind of bomb + rang combination throw so you'll run into a projectile at X. You won't leave the ground, and you'll take almost no stun. Wavedash in again and jab. If you do this quick enough, the jab might connect, and you get a free grab. If Link reacts well, though, he might be able to jump (although it's not likely - Link's jump is slow), in which case your jab won't hit, but you'll have time to react to what he does from above. If he shields, you should be able to grab him before his up-b OOS happens. If you don't think you're fast enough, shield the up-b and wavedash oos -> grab. Link might also roll when you close distance on him, but that means he's on the defensive. You should be able to press your aggression toward some advantage.

 

[PEEF!]

Peef, the trick is to shield if he throws projectiles from long range and CC if he throws them at you while you're approaching with a wavedash. Here's what it looks like:

You can visualize it like below.

M [------] X [------] A

The M is where the Ice Climbers start out, the area inside the brackets are the distance of one wavedash, the X is where the projectile hits you, and the A is where Link is.

If he throws a projectile at you when you are at position M, you can shield it. Wavedash out of shield and CC when you get to X. Usually a Link proficient with projectiles will do some kind of bomb + rang combination throw so you'll run into a projectile at X. You won't leave the ground, and you'll take almost no stun. Wavedash in again and jab. If you do this quick enough, the jab might connect, and you get a free grab. If Link reacts well, though, he might be able to jump (although it's not likely - Link's jump is slow), in which case your jab won't hit, but you'll have time to react to what he does from above. If he shields, you should be able to grab him before his up-b OOS happens. If you don't think you're fast enough, shield the up-b and wavedash oos -> grab. Link might also roll when you close distance on him, but that means he's on the defensive. You should be able to press your aggression toward some advantage.

Cool post, I'll see how this works.

I play a pretty good link more than anyone else. It is tough. Sometimes he can just cstick me and **** a stock for no reason. Fair>jab is hella tough too. How do we counter that shield pressure? If it happens near the edge im just fukd because I can't roll behind because I'll get dsmashed or upbd.

Dthrow dair works sometimes at lower %s. I have no idea if dthrow fsmash works, Ill try... Sopo dthrow regrab stops working at like 35 or something. Uthrow doesn't even combo very well. Handing him off isn't hard, which is good. But I'm lucky to get like 5 grabs per match anyway.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Link's shield pressure is nowhere near as scary as Marth's. With Marth, you have to be hesitant to jump because Fsmash can hit you in midair, plus his fair/uair/utilt are broken. Link has very few ways to punish you for going into the air. If you're mashed up against a ledge, I'd recommend jumping. You can use side-b to move to the other side of the stage very rapidly. You could fall down with a fair/bair/dair/blizzard. If you're not on FD, you could simply use the platforms to escape and position yourself better.

 

[PEEF!]

Yeah, good advice. Jump>sideb is probably fairly safe against link.

Or if I was a god, belayOoS>Nana Blizzard>RETALIATION haha.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Dthrow dair works sometimes at lower %s. I have no idea if dthrow fsmash works, Ill try... Sopo dthrow regrab stops working at like 35 or something. Uthrow doesn't even combo very well. Handing him off isn't hard, which is good. But I'm lucky to get like 5 grabs per match anyway.

D-air has set knockback, it doesn't work at all.

 

[PEEF!]

Yeah, IDK why I didnt make that connection. Well I guess they miss the DI sometimes.

2 questions: Do you all WD OoS with the same button that you shield with? Seems like there might be an easier way.

Also, Belay OoS is kinda tough.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I shield and wavedash OoS with L. I never touch R when I play and this has never caused me any problems.

Your second statement isn't a question. Belay OoS should be manageable as long as you remember to input B very quickly after hitting up.

 

[PEEF!]

Yep, the second part wasn't a question but I knew you'd get it.

So as far as handoffs, I have another idea. This time for the forward throw.

THIS IS SPACIE SPECIFIC!

I am thinking that instead of walking forward and standing grabbing, we should just dashgrab, no jump cancel. This has 3 advantages.

1: The action of dash grabbing is more consistent than walking forward an awkward amount and then grabbing. Sometimes nana and you magnetize and other weird stuff CAN happen.

2: I can fit in just as many of these against most characters as I can walk forward>Grabs. I find that 3 full repetitions with blizzards is usually enough to bring someone to killing range. With dash grabbing I can manage 4 if I'm good, 3 always.

3: (The best reason) This method is extremely easy. Mostly because the dash grab slides your character, which utilizes the 2 frame grab much better than a standing grab. It smears the box like a paintbrush instead of dabbing a dot.

Enough of that, just try it (Fox and Falco only) and see it work wonders.

 

[choknater]

the only thing >< if they sdi towards you, sometimes you grab past their character which can be annoying cuz u get shined

 

[PEEF!]

They wont haha.

If they did that consistently I'd just dthrow dair.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I shield and wavedash out of shield with R.

I'm right-handed, if that makes a difference.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I shield with R wavedash with L.

 

[choknater]

ohhhh u were talking about handoff

oops

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Ugh, I played so badly yesterday. Probably once every three or four tourneys, I get frustrated for some reason and just play inexplicably terribly. I've been aware of this tendency forever and if anything, I've got worse about it, and that devastates me.


edit: I've asked this elsewhere, but I might as well hear this board's thoughts on the matter, also. I've heard that there are slight differences between different types of GC controllers and I'm wondering which one you guys would think is the best to pick up. The joystick on my only functional controller started acting up yesterday, so I need to look into getting a new controller. >_>

 

[choknater]

you got 4th which is priy gud, was it your playing or the way you analyzed your playing?

irvine is too good ahhhhh

you got this next time

 

[ChivalRuse]

I personally don't like the blue controllers, and the white ones have the tendency to suck. Every controller's different, though. It's basically luck of the draw.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

you got 4th which is priy gud, was it your playing or the way you analyzed your playing?

irvine is too good ahhhhh

you got this next time

For some reason, I started playing dumb near the end of the tourney. I wasn't really taking into account what was happening and reacting accordingly; I was just getting annoyed and making a lot of bad decisions.

It's okay, though. I'm already quite aware of everything I did wrong and don't plan on letting myself down the next time I'm able to play this game.

I've actually been really irritable in general lately, so maybe my recent in-game frustration doesn't fundamentally stem from smash. I'm actually not sure why I've been upset at all in the first place. >_>

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I think you just need a hug fly.

..O
<l>
..A Hugger needs hug

fly is a winner he picked someone on the can win side of of the tier list

 

[choknater]

ah i see i see

maybe you need some r&r

so who did u lose to?

wow did u do ic dittos with lep?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I lost to MacD in winners and Kira in losers.

Yeah, we IC ditto'd in tournament, lol. I really enjoy that match-up for some reason.

 

[choknater]

hehe nice

i've learned to appreciate it, esp. since my past losses to you where i thought it was a whatever matchup but there's actually some method to the madness

i don't lose to anyone else in dittos gahhhh hahaha

kira eh? ahhhh how was that? his sheik looks scary

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Well, I beat his Puff in winners pretty soundly. IIRC, in losers, where he went Sheik, I 3-stocked him first game and then lost the next two. >_< I think I got overconfident and then started getting upset when he started getting some momentum in the second round.

 

[choknater]

ah okay

u got this

u gotta beat mccainnnnnn