Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Kyu Puff]

I personally try not to rely on game sounds too much because it can be difficult when there's a crowd or when the TV volume isn't loud enough. I do use visual cues, but mostly to make sure I'm not slowing down or speeding up.

Question: is the optimal DI in any way different for d-throw -> full hop dair as opposed to t-throw short hop dair as opposed to d-throw -> full hop reverse dair? Is it in any way a mixup or is the optimal DI the same for all of them?

For reverse d-air, the DI is sometimes different in that a single input of SDI away is not sufficient to move them out of grab range, but depending on their falling speed some type of DI up (and jump) or down (and spotdodge) will usually still work. Fullhop and shorthop are the same unless you time the d-air differently--most of the time people start the d-air early so it always hits their opponent on the first frame of throw release.

 

[fatman.spam]

Who is the most technical Ice climber player, Wobbles?

 

[Smasher89]

Many stuff to learn as ICs to be very technical about. However i saw him actually did something Ive been trying a few times each practice session for a while and struggling with, desynched backairs (6 in a row).I-ve yet to see anyone inplement that in their game though. Also, when it comes to ICs, its very much a day to day form, and I wouldn't say anyone is really consistent atm.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I don't think that question means a whole lot. I have hammered every little desynch and movement trick to death, but Fly probably still hits his handoffs more consistently than me, despite not being known as a "technical" player. I find things like desynched continuous b-airs to be relatively easy to perform, but not especially useful in game. A lot of technical stuff ends up being like that, and what's more important is how consistent you are with the fundamentals and how you apply them.

 

[Lawngarms]

I'm playing Triple R at Kings of the North this weekend. Any tips on the Kirby matchup?

 

[Bones0]

I'm playing Triple R at Kings of the North this weekend. Any tips on the Kirby matchup?

Roll towards/past you into utilt is an approach Kirby does. Dtilt is a good zoning tool, but I'm not sure it's something ICs should be afraid of if you're timing your WDs properly. He can edgeguard well with dair of you go low or uair if you go high. Your best way of edgeguarding might be to jump out and intercept his jumps with bair since hitting him out of his up-B with a smash sounds annoying.

 

[Army805]

Does anyone know the specifics on when the climbers sync back up? Obviously she has to be within the "force bubble", but after playing around with it even if shes in the bubble range it takes a bit to get synced back, it usually takes nana doing the slow turnaround after run. A couple times she has just caught back up to me and synced back without the turnaround though. What are the actual mechanics behind this? It peaked my interest after playing IC dittos and the classic wobble where nana gets repeatedly knocked away occured.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Does anyone know the specifics on when the climbers sync back up? Obviously she has to be within the "force bubble", but after playing around with it even if shes in the bubble range it takes a bit to get synced back, it usually takes nana doing the slow turnaround after run. A couple times she has just caught back up to me and synced back without the turnaround though. What are the actual mechanics behind this? It peaked my interest after playing IC dittos and the classic wobble where nana gets repeatedly knocked away occured.

She reunites with Popo when they are both standing on the ground (i.e. anything but tumble/knockdown) and they are within close proximity (~less than one character length away).

 

[LDSenpai]

What are some practical desyncs I should be practicing? I know things like Nanapult and Blizzard into grab, other than that, what is practical to use in an actual match?

 

[Samwisely]

http://www.twitch.tv/smash_mn/v/26658506?t=108m35s

Having a crazy hard time with Marth right now. I can't figure out when it's safe to move in, other than miss-spaced Fsmashes, or obvious laggy moves. I feel like whenever I move there's a sword on me, and my projectiles don't do enough to pin him down or force unsafe options.

In the posted set I just get messed up in neutral. Dropped wobbles are from anxiety and being in my own head, but the neutral game was so rough. Still trying to figure out what to do. Eh footage from a small local tournament ( >20 entrants), but it's what I need help with.

 

[Smasher89]

What are some practical desyncs I should be practicing? I know things like Nanapult and Blizzard into grab, other than that, what is practical to use in an actual match?

Anything you can learn to do consistenttly and not mess up, meaning a ton of desynchs if you really think about what you are doing when playing 2 characters against 1.
A few examples, pivot, landlag, lcancel, platform, taunt and up b oos deynchs are a few of them. The ammount of options and choices is what makes this character so much fun to play!

 

[Hiiro]

So, this long-time lurker turned smashboards user has some questions about the egde-cancelled belay,

or the nana-rocket (took the term from thread I found posted by PEEF! 5 years ago, also the quote is from there.)

This also explains weird ledge anomalies.

For example, everyone has tried to upb and had nana fail and just do nothing while popo grabs the ledge. I'm calling this a "dud-rocket". This is caused by the same phenomenon as the nana-rocket. Because Nana teleports to you instantly, all you have to do is follow the above steps but postpone your belay until right before the frame clock runs out and popo snaps to the ledge. This will cause nana to come to your arms, but because the animation that throws her didn't have time to be completed before you snap to the ledge, she will simply fall off the side or be left standing still on the edge of the stage.

On yoshis, you can do a cool little glitch where after successfully nana-rocketing her to a side platform, you can continually dud-rocket and she will teleport to you, then instead of falling off the side when you snap to the ledge, she will teleport right back to where she was standing as if nothing happened.

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Now that we all have a more clear understanding of how Nana-rockets and dud-rockets work, it's time to come up with some possible uses.

We´ve all probably seen the nana-rocket put to good use wether it was in combo or a kill of some floaties/or others.
Nevermind that.

While in the "lab" I somehow discovered I could, at this point pretty consistently, do the "dud-rocket", meaning in my case:

edge-cancelled belay, while nana doesnt get catapulted up in the air, but instead just gets teleported to the edge (and then standing idle).

Has anybody ever played around with this?

My usual follow up to her standing idle is --> get-on-stage attack --> when this happens next input for nana to do whatever (smash,grab,shield etc.)

Opinions? New edgeguard option?


greetings Hiiro

 

[Smasher89]

I guess it could be a mixup to the regular invinsible nana at the ledge, like if they go for a high punish, teleport nana to the ground and then maybe being able to do something.

 

[cemo]

i've had nana standing on stage about to get hit, then the belay cancel teleports her away and then back.
not done on purpose but it was pretty cool, and people are always confused by it regardless

 

[Army805]

Can someone go over desyncing off Falco's lasers? Are we inputting the nanapult/whatever once Popo is flinching from a laser?

 

[ilysm]

One more q about d-throw -> dair: what benefits exactly does a SH dair give as opposed to a FH dair? I know that the SH dair chaingrab is purportedly better and more difficult to escape, but I'm wondering specifically what advantages it gives in terms of percentage, DI, character weight/fall speed, or other things. I'd like to know the real reason why a SH dair is more optimal, basically. Thanks for the help!

edit: didn't realize kyu puff answered part of my question above, sorry!

 

[941]

Like you said, it's usually harder to escape. FH dair usually doesn't work on short characters like Fox, and can usually be DIed out of, where SH dair will always hit with proper timing, meaning the opponent will likely have to SDI the dair to get out.

 

[OddishGuy]

Alright dudes, the final projects are all done and I'm not studying for those tests for a while so I'm being productive in a different way today.

First off, I swore I was going to fix the slip-hog gfy forever ago, and I finally did that today. For those of you who missed the first post, the idea is to WD back in shield to force a tumble called missfoot, this makes it so Nana can't jump away. Since Nana can't jump away, she'll grab the ledge once Popo let's go. This is similar to the Up-B OoS Nana edge-hog scenarios, but it's a much faster setup.

Here you go

Link in case gfy doesn't load here: http://gfycat.com/UnsteadyPleasantAplomadofalcon

I was asked about the speediness of the ledge-grab by Derf, I took three seconds out of my day to finally test this and grabbing the ledge with slip-hog is the exact same speed as grabbing it with a WD back, 13 frames. Grabbing the ledge with a Ramen Noodle is the exact same speed as grabbing it with a FF'd slip-hog (Slip Noodle?), 5 frames.

It's worth noting that Nana does NOT FF the sliphog, so she will always grab on frame 13 at the earliest. If you don't FF though, Popo can't let go until he's been on the ledge for 8 frames, so Nana grabs the ledge on frame 15 if you let go frame perfectly. If you FF'd and let go, you have a 6 frame window to let go and have Nana grab the ledge frame perfectly.


A long time ago, in a chat room far away, Kyu mentioned non-rising ice blocks (I'm calling these NIBs because it's easy to type and funny sounding). So you could shorthop ice block without getting popped up, or in general use, you could land with iceblocks.

This is a one use technique, so the next time you SH iceblock or something, you'll get popped up like usual. These still have the landing lag from iceblocks because it's a special move. If you jump before using the iceblocks, the NIBs are gone and the next aerial iceblock you use will pop you up.

Here's the setup

Link in case gfy doesn't load: http://gfycat.com/HarmlessMeanAsiantrumpetfish

At first I do a SH ice-block to demonstrate the rise, then I go into the setup.
How it works: Whenever you use an iceblock you get popped up, however the next time in the air you use the iceblock you continue falling with it. You probably won't notice this unless you use iceblocks after getting Upsmashed on DL. The way this works is by telling the game that you're still kind of in the air/on the ledge, since being on the ledge doesn't refresh the iceblock pop either.

How to execute: Do a rising iceblock, grab ledge, avoid jumping(this means no tournament winner, no ledge jump Nair/Upair/whatever onto the stage, and no ledgedash).
To get Nana to do it, you have to DJ iceblock, grab ledge (Nana would jump here, but can't), let go of ledge so Nana can get up, and then you regrab the ledge and get up.
If Nana does a tournament winner, that sucks and she can't NIB anymore. You may have to stall if Nana does a roll or attack, so you can DJ and then airdodge up for more hang time before you regrab the ledge.
If you Up-B stall, Popo can still NIB, but Nana cannot NIB.

Application: NIBs are generally better than regular iceblocks. Landing with an iceblock means that you can convert off of it much more effectively since it's faster than regular SH iceblock and standing iceblock.
NIBs also mean that you can attack with the hammer swing of iceblocks, even on the ground. You could SH NIB to grab on fast-fallers at 0%, for example.
http://gfycat.com/IckyBelatedCoyote
Basically the only time you can reliably set this up is when your opponent is respawning. The problem is that you have to avoid the respawned, invincible opponent without jumping/WDing if you want to keep your NIBs, and rolling and shield can only do so much.
The other way is just to be aware that if you recover with an aerial iceblock, you can ledge jump with a NIB, or just do a regular get up and try to use the NIB onstage.
NIBs are cool.

All credit to Kyu for showing that this exists in the first place.


If anyone asked for data/gfys that I've ignored in the past, LMK now and I'll try to crank them out soon.

I'm pretty horrible at moonwalks, but here's my attempt at a sticky walk to appease you all, thanks for reading ^_^/

http://gfycat.com/DisgustingMadKrill

PS: Thanks gfycat for naming my sticky walk thing disgusting, mad krill. You have such a way with words.

 

[Vanitas]

Alright dudes, the final projects are all done and I'm not studying for those tests for a while so I'm being productive in a different way today.

First off, I swore I was going to fix the slip-hog gfy forever ago, and I finally did that today. For those of you who missed the first post, the idea is to WD back in shield to force a tumble called missfoot, this makes it so Nana can't jump away. Since Nana can't jump away, she'll grab the ledge once Popo let's go. This is similar to the Up-B OoS Nana edge-hog scenarios, but it's a much faster setup.

Here you go

Link in case gfy doesn't load here: http://gfycat.com/UnsteadyPleasantAplomadofalcon

I was asked about the speediness of the ledge-grab by Derf, I took three seconds out of my day to finally test this and grabbing the ledge with slip-hog is the exact same speed as grabbing it with a WD back, 13 frames. Grabbing the ledge with a Ramen Noodle is the exact same speed as grabbing it with a FF'd slip-hog (Slip Noodle?), 5 frames.

It's worth noting that Nana does NOT FF the sliphog, so she will always grab on frame 13 at the earliest. If you don't FF though, Popo can't let go until he's been on the ledge for 8 frames, so Nana grabs the ledge on frame 15 if you let go frame perfectly. If you FF'd and let go, you have a 6 frame window to let go and have Nana grab the ledge frame perfectly.

This is really cool! Wouldn't Fox still have the option to up-b high and then drift back to the edge? Judging from this gfycat, it looks like Nana won't occupy the edge for that long.

EDIT: you COULD ledge hop waveland back on the platform with Popo...but it wouldn't cover all the options then =/

 

[OddishGuy]

This is really cool! Wouldn't Fox still have the option to up-b high and then drift back to the edge? Judging from this gfycat, it looks like Nana won't occupy the edge for that long.

EDIT: you COULD ledge hop waveland back on the platform with Popo...but it wouldn't cover all the options then =/

If Nana rolls or does a getup attack it might be enough to cover that since those stay out for years, but if you FF the Bair like my scrubby self didn't, you can catch the drift back with the D-smash.

Ledge dash should allow you to cover everything as well, probably better. Nana edge-hogs low still, ledgedash D-smash or grab covers straight and upwards angles. The straight option is the hardest to cover here because if you're off on your timing and run out of invincibility you get burned and/or Sakurai combo'd, whereas Bair nets you a nice trade.

If by "ledge hop" you mean tournament winner, then Nana won't be able to grab the ledge =[
If you mean let go and DJ, then you could cover all options if you had ridiculous reaction time. Cover straight with a reaction Bair, cover barely high angle with waveland D-smash or late Bair, cover high high angle with waveland back to ledge.

IDK if it's possible to react to them going straight though.

 

[Smasher89]

About that falling iceblock tech, i remember there was talk about another one a few years back in this thread. Cant remember exacly how it worked but I think side b was part of it, prob side b oos or something like that.

 

[Army805]

Alright dudes, the final projects are all done and I'm not studying for those tests for a while so I'm being productive in a different way today.

First off, I swore I was going to fix the slip-hog gfy forever ago, and I finally did that today. For those of you who missed the first post, the idea is to WD back in shield to force a tumble called missfoot, this makes it so Nana can't jump away. Since Nana can't jump away, she'll grab the ledge once Popo let's go. This is similar to the Up-B OoS Nana edge-hog scenarios, but it's a much faster setup.

Here you go

Link in case gfy doesn't load here: http://gfycat.com/UnsteadyPleasantAplomadofalcon

I was asked about the speediness of the ledge-grab by Derf, I took three seconds out of my day to finally test this and grabbing the ledge with slip-hog is the exact same speed as grabbing it with a WD back, 13 frames. Grabbing the ledge with a Ramen Noodle is the exact same speed as grabbing it with a FF'd slip-hog (Slip Noodle?), 5 frames.

It's worth noting that Nana does NOT FF the sliphog, so she will always grab on frame 13 at the earliest. If you don't FF though, Popo can't let go until he's been on the ledge for 8 frames, so Nana grabs the ledge on frame 15 if you let go frame perfectly. If you FF'd and let go, you have a 6 frame window to let go and have Nana grab the ledge frame perfectly.


A long time ago, in a chat room far away, Kyu mentioned non-rising ice blocks (I'm calling these NIBs because it's easy to type and funny sounding). So you could shorthop ice block without getting popped up, or in general use, you could land with iceblocks.

This is a one use technique, so the next time you SH iceblock or something, you'll get popped up like usual. These still have the landing lag from iceblocks because it's a special move. If you jump before using the iceblocks, the NIBs are gone and the next aerial iceblock you use will pop you up.

Here's the setup

Link in case gfy doesn't load: http://gfycat.com/HarmlessMeanAsiantrumpetfish

At first I do a SH ice-block to demonstrate the rise, then I go into the setup.
How it works: Whenever you use an iceblock you get popped up, however the next time in the air you use the iceblock you continue falling with it. You probably won't notice this unless you use iceblocks after getting Upsmashed on DL. The way this works is by telling the game that you're still kind of in the air/on the ledge, since being on the ledge doesn't refresh the iceblock pop either.

How to execute: Do a rising iceblock, grab ledge, avoid jumping(this means no tournament winner, no ledge jump Nair/Upair/whatever onto the stage, and no ledgedash).
To get Nana to do it, you have to DJ iceblock, grab ledge (Nana would jump here, but can't), let go of ledge so Nana can get up, and then you regrab the ledge and get up.
If Nana does a tournament winner, that sucks and she can't NIB anymore. You may have to stall if Nana does a roll or attack, so you can DJ and then airdodge up for more hang time before you regrab the ledge.
If you Up-B stall, Popo can still NIB, but Nana cannot NIB.

Application: NIBs are generally better than regular iceblocks. Landing with an iceblock means that you can convert off of it much more effectively since it's faster than regular SH iceblock and standing iceblock.
NIBs also mean that you can attack with the hammer swing of iceblocks, even on the ground. You could SH NIB to grab on fast-fallers at 0%, for example.
http://gfycat.com/IckyBelatedCoyote
Basically the only time you can reliably set this up is when your opponent is respawning. The problem is that you have to avoid the respawned, invincible opponent without jumping/WDing if you want to keep your NIBs, and rolling and shield can only do so much.
The other way is just to be aware that if you recover with an aerial iceblock, you can ledge jump with a NIB, or just do a regular get up and try to use the NIB onstage.
NIBs are cool.

All credit to Kyu for showing that this exists in the first place.


If anyone asked for data/gfys that I've ignored in the past, LMK now and I'll try to crank them out soon.

I'm pretty horrible at moonwalks, but here's my attempt at a sticky walk to appease you all, thanks for reading ^_^/

http://gfycat.com/DisgustingMadKrill

PS: Thanks gfycat for naming my sticky walk thing disgusting, mad krill. You have such a way with words.

So do the ice blocks "recharge" the little height gain the same as marth's side b or is it different? (Marth's side b if you jump and land with aerial lag or doing a special you still don't get the charge)
Also is there some sort of auto fast fall property to ice blocking in the air? I've always thought this but it's always been a tad confusing. Thanks.

 

[OddishGuy]

About that falling iceblock tech, i remember there was talk about another one a few years back in this thread. Cant remember exacly how it worked but I think side b was part of it, prob side b oos or something like that.

OMFG that setup is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY easier.

Alright, so you can iceblock in the air and then land with side-B and it will cause you to have a NIB. You can also do it with a landing blizzard. Offstage iceblock to belay where Nana just barely lands onstage and Popo grabs ledge works too.

Onstage DJ iceblock to landing blizzard or offstage iceblock to landing squall seem to be the fastest ways to set it up for both climbers.

Thanks man, that setup is an absolute blessing! :D

So do the ice blocks "recharge" the little height gain the same as marth's side b or is it different? (Marth's side b if you jump and land with aerial lag or doing a special you still don't get the charge)
Also is there some sort of auto fast fall property to ice blocking in the air? I've always thought this but it's always been a tad confusing. Thanks.

The NIBs go away once you jump and land on stage, even with WDing and such.
For example, you can get launched off stage, and as long as you grab ledge instead of jumping onstage you should keep your NIB. But I guess you could squall onstage and have it work out, as I just learned =P

 

[Kyu Puff]

OMFG that setup is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY easier.

Alright, so you can iceblock in the air and then land with side-B and it will cause you to have a NIB. You can also do it with a landing blizzard. Offstage iceblock to belay where Nana just barely lands onstage and Popo grabs ledge works too.

Onstage DJ iceblock to landing blizzard or offstage iceblock to landing squall seem to be the fastest ways to set it up for both climbers.

It works with anything that isn't normal landing or landfallspecial (so landing with any aerial also works). In between stocks, jumping Ice Block offstage -> Squall back on is probably the fastest setup.

 

[OddishGuy]

It works with anything that isn't normal landing or landfallspecial (so landing with any aerial also works). In between stocks, jumping Ice Block offstage -> Squall back on is probably the fastest setup.

It works with aerials too! @_@
So DJ iceblock to landing Dair or Nair should be a super fast setup, but I guess if platforms are in the way going off with iceblocks into a squall recovery is fastest.

I love this thing man.

 

[Andeross]

Hey guys, first time popping into the general chat, Looking to get a set critiqued on my thread.

Here : http://smashboards.com/threads/low-...eneral-tips-observation-of-bad-habits.426364/

Otherwise, do you guys have any tips on the ICs vs Falco matchup?

 

[Smasher89]

Andeross- Take control over the neutral, a falco should not be respected enough so he can shielpressure you like he wants. Also, shielding the laser gives you more stun, due to how shieldstun works.

 

[Fugibean]

That NIB tech is crazy. Has anyone thought about if there is a way to make the NIBs permanent? Or that completely ridiculous based on the game mechanics? I feel like ice blocks would become such a better projectile because they could be done so much faster.

 

[Smasher89]

Maybe theres a way, but if there is I dont know how to do that. Platformcanceled iceblocks are kinda fast though, i guess desynched shielddropped platformcanceled iceblocks might be the fastest way to spam them though.

http://www.twitch.tv/tourneylocator

Wobbles waiting in grand final atm. sfat vs westballz in losers final.

 

[S2rulL]

CONGRATS TO WOBBLES FOR BEING THE BAMF ICS MAIN WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE

 

[ilysm]

This is likely going to sound very stupid, but has anybody ever tried wobbling while Nana is pummeling during a handoff to keep the opponent from mashing out? I haven't gotten a chance to test it myself yet, but it seems like it'd be possible for someone with good reaction time. Ftilt might be easier to use as you can just walk forward without inputting the ftilt on reaction to the throw. Maybe this isn't worth pursuing; just a random thought I had.

 

[S2rulL]

This is likely going to sound very stupid, but has anybody ever tried wobbling while Nana is pummeling during a handoff to keep the opponent from mashing out? I haven't gotten a chance to test it myself yet, but it seems like it'd be possible for someone with good reaction time. Ftilt might be easier to use as you can just walk forward without inputting the ftilt on reaction to the throw. Maybe this isn't worth pursuing; just a random thought I had.

isn't nana pummelling during a handoff all down to rng? even then, if she did more than two pummels, she'd either throw the opponent or the timing would be off leading to a grab release, i'm sure

 

[ilysm]

It is RNG. Nana will do in between 0 and 4 pummels, so it would have to be reactionary. If it could be done, however, I don't see why the timing would eventually be off.

 

[OddishGuy]

This is likely going to sound very stupid, but has anybody ever tried wobbling while Nana is pummeling during a handoff to keep the opponent from mashing out? I haven't gotten a chance to test it myself yet, but it seems like it'd be possible for someone with good reaction time. Ftilt might be easier to use as you can just walk forward without inputting the ftilt on reaction to the throw. Maybe this isn't worth pursuing; just a random thought I had.

So, I found a way to IMPROVE THE HANDOFF.

*thunderous applause*

So it's biggest weakness is that Nana does a random # of headbutts during her segment of the chaingrab, which gives people time to escape it. Well, no more! When she headbutts, you can just jab in between them and you should be able to lock them into place using the same principle as the jab variation of the infinite. So you can do your normal filler damage while you are holding them--I like tilts--and then give them to Nana. Confirm that she isn't going to throw right away, and time your jabs in between the headbutts.

You can use tilts SORT OF, but the problem is she headbutts as quickly as she can, which doesn't work for syncing up the tilt/headbutt to keep them locked in an infinite.

It's tricky, but I'm getting better at it. I will be testing it against players soon to see if I can just lock them permanently (and also speed up the handoff process by adding more damage).

 

[ilysm]

Yo, this is cool. Thank you!

 

[Smasher89]

Lol, reading that makes me feel so dumb missing that, there's probably so many ways to improve ICs consistency!

That said, maybe downtilt is better since it usueally pops the opponent up not allowing for buffering anything against the jab.

 

[smasherslv]

Hi guys, I ask for help because I always have problem with this marth, I think it´s not the MU, cuz I can beat the others marths in my region, but this one always means a lot of troubles for me he does not have a lot of tech skill but he has good readings and he knows my patterns, he spam a lot of fairs.

This is a recent video againt that marth, I suggest turn of the audio, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP5MD5pGRhY

Other thing I don´t know why I always fail the wobblings in tournaments, I need more consistency, in friendlies I don't have troubles, maybe the nervouses?

P.S. Please excuse me for my english.

 

[OddishGuy]

Hi guys, I ask for help because I always have problem with this marth, I think it´s not the MU, cuz I can beat the others marths in my region, but this one always means a lot of troubles for me he does not have a lot of tech skill but he has good readings and he knows my patterns, he spam a lot of fairs.

This is a recent video againt that marth, I suggest turn of the audio, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP5MD5pGRhY

Other thing I don´t know why I always fail the wobblings in tournaments, I need more consistency, in friendlies I don't have troubles, maybe the nervouses?

P.S. Please excuse me for my english.

Some of the smaller stuff is that you could rack up some free damage with iceblocks. You didn't really camp all that much.
Taking to the air is not that great against Marth and you got punished for a lot of your full jumps. His aerials have range like mad, so just sticking to the ground and punishing the landing should be fine.

Most importantly is USE THE SHIELD. The Marth grabbed you like 2 times. He didn't need to grab because you never stayed in shield for more than a moment. You got punished for jumping and rolling out of shield when you should have been getting a punish if you had just waited a moment and reacted to what he did. You can shield grab Fair if you space it right, you can WD OoS and grab if he F-smashes or F-tilts your shield, you can punish him a ton if you just shield.
You don't even need to be passive. Just WD towards him and shield. You can start tracking what he does. If he tilts or smashes you you can WD OoS for a free grab. If he runs or jumps away you gain center stage and start using those iceblocks we mentioned earlier, don't let him land easily. If he does nothing and just waits like he did a lot, you can just grab him.

There were times when he just waited for you to panic. Really practice your out of shield options and he won't ever be able to do that again. There were times where you were facing away in shield so he didn't worry about the grab, but you can Bair OoS and hit him here. Other times he was just waiting for a roll, but a WD OoS would have been too fast for him to catch.

Offense against Marth is mostly about blocking and counter attacking, other than that it gets really campy.

Good luck dude, I'm sure you'll get him next time ^_^/

 

[smasherslv]

Thanks for your help, in resume, do more Ice blocks and oos stuffs, got it I´ll try, and I will try to avoid rolling unlike if it for desych sake. thanks again.

This is another fight, this time agains a ff, I think i don´t need to struggle to much with them. As you could see I´m not too bad with desych, sopo even, my problem is that I like attack recklessly, my bad. It´s just 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc5PVDe-eEk

 

[941]

The thing that stood out most in that game is that you didn't convert a lot of punishes. I suggest practicing down throw > down air chain grabs and down throw tech chasing fast fallers. Up throw can work, but you shouldn't do it when they can land on a platform.