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General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

finalark

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The game will probably be decent, but I can't say I am hype or have certain expectations of it. I just want the game in my hands. Either way, if things come out as planned, FFXV and Persona 5 makes 2016 a pretty good year.
I'm really hoping we get that 2016 release date for FFXV and P5. I was originally planning on getting a PS4 this year to play MGS5 but the reality of paying $400 for a console plus $60 for the game when there wasn't a whole lot I was interested in kicked in.

Right now FFXV, KHIII and Shenmue III are my next-gen exclusive power trio. I'll probably end up getting a PS4 once of those comes out.

I would have added the FFVII remake to that list, but we probably won't be seeing it on store shelves until 2018-2020 seeing how Square takes their sweet time on big releases.
 
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Atrabilious

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I wouldn't mind an outfit redesign for the FF15 cast. The only one I liked was Gladiolus, suited him just fine. Noctis would be alright if he ditched the single glove and wore full length trousers. The other two were pretty naff in my opinion.
 

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I'm debating over whether I should continue playing FFX, or if I should ask my friend at college to lend me his copy of FFXII. I'm not really a fan of the gameplay in FFX, but I think the storyline is interesting enough to continue playing through.

But everything about FFXII and Ivalice is just so interesting to me. I love reading about the lore in that world.
 

finalark

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I'm debating over whether I should continue playing FFX, or if I should ask my friend at college to lend me his copy of FFXII. I'm not really a fan of the gameplay in FFX, but I think the storyline is interesting enough to continue playing through.

But everything about FFXII and Ivalice is just so interesting to me. I love reading about the lore in that world.
XII's game play is pretty divorced from X's. It has a much more nonlinear approach to how you explore the world with a ton of completely optional side quests to do. That being said, the licence board system is kind of hit and miss IMO, and the combat basically boils down to an offline MMO (really, XII's game play is basically a single player XI) but it's still a wonderful, if overlooked, game. If X's not doing it for you then I'd say give XII a shot.
 

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XII's game play is pretty divorced from X's. It has a much more nonlinear approach to how you explore the world with a ton of completely optional side quests to do. That being said, the licence board system is kind of hit and miss IMO, and the combat basically boils down to an offline MMO (really, XII's game play is basically a single player XI) but it's still a wonderful, if overlooked, game. If X's not doing it for you then I'd say give XII a shot.
Dunno about how good the license board system will work for me, but I like nonlinear gameplay in RPGs. Xenoblade Chronicles is starting to become one of my favorite RPGs of all time, so if FFXII's gameplay is anything like that then I'm sure I'll like it.

If anything, it's got to be better than FFXIII, which I hated for how linear it was.

 
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finalark

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Dunno about how good the license board system will work for me, but I like nonlinear gameplay in RPGs. Xenoblade Chronicles is starting to become one of my favorite RPGs of all time, so if FFXII's gameplay is anything like that then I'm sure I'll like it.

If anything, it's got to be better than FFXIII, which I hated for how linear it was.

Xenoblade is basically XII-2 in terms of game play, so if you dig that then you'll probably have a good time with XII.
 

Minato

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I loved FFXII's gambits but I disliked Xenoblade's battle system (despite liking the game). I usually hear the opposite or that they like both. But yeah, FFXII gives you a lot of side stuff you're able to do. I played the Japanese International version recently. With the ability to speed up the game in that version, I was able to level up and explore areas I had access to. I was pleasantly surprised with what the game allowed me to do at each point.

I feel like X's gameplay enjoyment goes in a bell curve. It slowly gets more fun as you go along. But once you've unlocked your 3rd or 4th section of a sphere grid, it gets boring, and the strategy with the enemies feel repetitive.
 

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I loved FFXII's gambits but I disliked Xenoblade's battle system (despite liking the game). I usually hear the opposite or that they like both. But yeah, FFXII gives you a lot of side stuff you're able to do. I played the Japanese International version recently. With the ability to speed up the game in that version, I was able to level up and explore areas I had access to. I was pleasantly surprised with what the game allowed me to do at each point.

I feel like X's gameplay enjoyment goes in a bell curve. It slowly gets more fun as you go along. But once you've unlocked your 3rd or 4th section of a sphere grid, it gets boring, and the strategy with the enemies feel repetitive.
I totally agree with this bit on X. Having just platinum'd it i can say the further you get the more dull the system gets. Especially towards the end once you're solely aiming to complete the grid just to beat those last two megabosses.
 

Muscle_Senpai

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XII's game play is pretty divorced from X's. It has a much more nonlinear approach to how you explore the world with a ton of completely optional side quests to do. That being said, the licence board system is kind of hit and miss IMO, and the combat basically boils down to an offline MMO (really, XII's game play is basically a single player XI) but it's still a wonderful, if overlooked, game. If X's not doing it for you then I'd say give XII a shot.
The license board is 1000% improved in the international version with the zodiac system.
 

Muscle_Senpai

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If only Sqeenix would give it an international release.
The translation is done I believe, dude just took all the text edits from the US FFXll and copied it over, of course the text for the actual license board introduction is wrong because of that but I feel that's pretty minor as you can just as easily "how 2 zodiac job system"
 

Minato

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I love IZJS's license board. My only issue is you can complete it so much faster. Also a complaint I've always had with XII is you can lock yourself out of licenses because of Esper and Quickening licenses :/
 

finalark

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I beat FFX-2 a while back and have been meaning to post my thoughts on it, so here we go!

I avoided X-2 like the plague for years and now that I've finally decided to actually give it a chance, I think it's actually a pretty good game. Not a good story but a good game.

Started with stuff I liked, the game play. There's a lot of good ideas in here that I kinda wish Squeenix would revisit. I like having access to the airship from the get-go. It makes the game feel open ended and I like that no matter where you go there's almost always something for you to do there. You could probably dump a good four or five hours into the game before your even tackle the first mandatory story mission.

The battle system is a ton of fun, and I feel like XIII took notes from it but did it wrong. Switching jobs mid-battle is a neat idea that allows for a number of different strategies. The way it ties into the garment grid is really neat. I like how each grid provides different passives, actives and boosts allowing some great character building options. On a side note, I like how the characters change costumes with they change jobs (not the animations, I ended up turning those off, but the concept). It reminds me of FFV, which I imagine this game took some inspiration from.

I do have a few criticisms, though. First, the game introduces the ability to climb on ledges and jump around from place to place. You'd think that this would be used to create interesting and exploitable areas but since so many of the game's maps are recycled from FFX it ends up getting extremely underutilized. Second, is that this game is laughably easy. Like, this is probably one of the least challenging FF games I've played. Even if you don't use the extremely powerful Special Dresspheres you can blow through the game no problem. The challenge does ramp up suddenly at the very end of the game, however. But at that point it just makes the difficulty curve feel like you're running headfirst into a brick wall.

Now let's talk about the story.

Oh boy, never in my life have I felt like a sequel misunderstood its source material as badly as X-2 does. Before I rip into the story, I will confess that it does have some good sequel moments. My personal favorite scene is when the Gullwings visit Zanarkand and Yuna is applauded that a once sacred site has been turned into a tourist attraction (It's like someone on the writing team actually remembers that Yuna was once an extremely devout woman!). There's also the matter of different factions rising up and fighting to fill the power void that Yeven left after it collapsed, which would make for a fantastic sequel but it horribly out of focus for really stupid reasons.

The story's got some neat concepts, but focuses on all the wrong places. The game presents us with the previously mentioned Youth League VS. New Yevon VS Machine Faction story but instead chooses to put its attention on cheesy treasure hunting antics. Then, suddenly there's this guy who looks exactly like Tidus who wants to activate this giant robot that will blow up Spira, and both the treasure hunting and factions stories are pushed aside for that. The game then awkwardly bounces around between the three stories until it ultimately settles on the Tidus-Look-Alike story.

This is a major problem, it feels the game doesn't know what it wants to be. IMO the best story here is the factions story, since it focuses on what a squeal should: how the world reacts the the events of the first story and the repercussions of the character's actions. Unfortunately, since the first third of the game is focused on treasure hunting antics, is never as developed as it should be. There's a part near the beginning of the game where you have to give a sphere to either New Yeven or the Youth League. The game treats this like some kind of moral dilemma but it falls flat on its face because the faction story is so underdeveloped at that point that you feel like your choice is meaningless since you have no idea what these factions are and what they stand for.

My biggest issue wit the story is the Shuyin plot. As I mentioned before, the guy looks exactly like Tidus and wants to activate a big gun to kill everything because his lover was killed during a major conflict long. My main issue with this story is that is it not a very good sequel story, but it effectively puts the potentially morally complex faction story on the back burner for a generic "new threat" kind of story. Although my biggest gripe with the Shuyin story is that it is never once explained anywhere in game why he looks like Tidus. From what I've read, the director says that it's a "coincidence." This pretty much means that Shuyin's appearance is to give Yuna motivation to pursue him. This effectually means that Yuna is a woman who supposedly cares deeply for Spira and its people but the writer's can find a way to motivate her to help unless her lover is involved and CHOO CHOO ALL ABOARD THE UNFORTUNATE IMPLICATIONS TRAIN!

That brings me to my final issue with the story: characterization. In FFX, Yuna was a very religious woman who cared deeply for the well being of Spira and was willing to sacrifice her life to protect them. Even when she found out that her religion was a sham she never gave up in her steadfast desire to protect the world that she loved, looking for way to deal with Sin. Suddenly, in X-2, she's basically be turned into little more than a thief who can't be bothered to get involved in the larger world unless there's some profit tied to it (admitted, this aspect of her character seems to change from scene to scene). It doesn't help that she's gone from being quiet and thoughtful to playful with an attitude. The worst part is, Sqeenix knows that she's very OOC in this game and has every character comment on it.

Poor Rikku got her characterization butchered to make her fit into the "dizty girl" archetype. This irks me in particular because Rikku was one of my favorite characters in FFX. Seeing someone who once had competent leadership and craftsmanship skills, as well as smarts with machines and even some level of diplomacy despite her quirky personality suddenly running around like an idea spouting nonsense and being too stupid to understand new kids Shina's intentions is just jarring beyond belief. As far as other characters go, Paine is a horribly generic produce of the times, the faction leaders are very forgettable and I don't think I've ever hated a FF character as much as I hate Brother.

TL;DR version: FFX-2 is a solid game, but a horrible story.
 

Minato

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It's too bad. You can tell Square hit that phase where they just didn't want to take too many chances on new IPs, so they made more spinoffs and sequels. Thankfully Square is going for more B tier and C tier games instead of just few high budget games with development hell. Thank goodness for Bravely Default for making them see the light.

As for FFX-2, I still need to play it. I'll pick up the HD/Vita version sometime down the road. It's just not a high priority.
 

finalark

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It's too bad. You can tell Square hit that phase where they just didn't want to take too many chances on new IPs, so they made more spinoffs and sequels. Thankfully Square is going for more B tier and C tier games instead of just few high budget games with development hell. Thank goodness for Bravely Default for making them see the light.
There's also that studio they put together specifically for JRPG development. I'm really hoping we get more details on the first game next E3.

As for FFX-2, I still need to play it. I'll pick up the HD/Vita version sometime down the road. It's just not a high priority.
Honestly, don't go out of your way for it. The only reason why I played it was because it came bundled with the PS3 version X and I felt like since I now owned a copy I should at least give it a chance.

If you ever do manage to get around to playing the game don't expect to spend that much time with it. Unless you're crazy about the side content the game is really easy and really short. I think my run time was a little over 20something hours.
 

RetroBro

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I could do with an entire redesign of FF15's cast. Four over the top metrosexual males is just puke worthy to me at this point. I could do with a Kimahri, Quina, Cait Sith, or Umaro. Sorry if I offend anyone. I'm a long time Final Fantasy fan, and.. it's just gone downhill for me in the past 5 years.
 

finalark

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I could do with an entire redesign of FF15's cast. Four over the top metrosexual males is just puke worthy to me at this point. I could do with a Kimahri, Quina, Cait Sith, or Umaro. Sorry if I offend anyone. I'm a long time Final Fantasy fan, and.. it's just gone downhill for me in the past 5 years.
Well, if you want beastmen in your FF games XIV has an entire race of playable cat people and dragon people.

Personally, the only complaint I have with XV's cast is that their costumes make them all look kind of samey to me.
 

RetroBro

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Well, if you want beastmen in your FF games XIV has an entire race of playable cat people and dragon people.

Personally, the only complaint I have with XV's cast is that their costumes make them all look kind of samey to me.
That wasn't my point. The hyper realistic themes are just nauseating at this point. The characters need to be varied. They need to put the "fantasy" back in the characters of the show. Yes, there's obviously some fantasy elements that remain, but they've deviated from the path so far I can hardly tell it's a Final Fantasy anymore. The only Final Fantasy I have not played is FF5/FF11 (Which I've been meaning to play FF5).

Final Fantasy has always pushed the limits of graphic potential for each system, but that doesn't mean you have to lose your artistic direction. But I digress.
 

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^ You mean to say, the series has completely blended in with other IPs, and lost its uniqueness. The XV Cast doesn't stand out as much as say, Cloud, Squall, or Terra?
 

finalark

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^ You mean to say, the series has completely blended in with other IPs, and lost its uniqueness. The XV Cast doesn't stand out as much as say, Cloud, Squall, or Terra?
Personally, I don't feel like the cast of XV lost it's uniqueness or comes off as any other IP. On their own, each of these characters still look like FF characters to me. I just feel like their uniformity makes them all look the same.

I have the same issues with the redesigns the VII cast went through for Advent Children TBH.
 

Ryu Shimazu

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Personally, I don't feel like the cast of XV lost it's uniqueness or comes off as any other IP. On their own, each of these characters still look like FF characters to me. I just feel like their uniformity makes them all look the same.

I have the same issues with the redesigns the VII cast went through for Advent Children TBH.
While I don't feel like Advent Children looked too bad, I definitely see this issue with XV. XIV has some good designs too, which is odd because XIII was rough to me too. i guess they had different teams?

Anyways, off topic but I fell back to FFXIV. I'm making a more conscious effort to not become an mmo fiend, though. So far it's been fun taking it on a casual scale, i'm on Balmung if anyone is there.
 

Minato

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For a game that wants to mix fantasy with reality, the outfits for all the guys makes sense to me. They all come from pretty much the same place. It'll help look less typical JRPG flash besides the hair too, so I'm fine with it like that in this game.

And yes, XIV definitely had different people working on it. Final Fantasy consists of multiple teams.
 

RetroBro

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I'll just agree to disagree then.

I'm a traditional FF fan, the new games just aren't my thing. The hyper realism aesthetic+slow withdrawal from traditional RPG conventions has just alienated me. FF12 (felt very star wars-esque with its fantasy setting) got a pass for me because of the interrelations it had with tactics and tactics advanced, but FF13 was the nail in the coffin.

I've went from "Absolutely buying FF15 no doubts in my mind" ---> "Well... I guess I can deal with this" ---> "I'm not sure if I'm buying the game anymore."

And with them recreating FF7, I fear for them to lose some of the humor and personalities that were actually developed in the game. I sincerely hope they don't take Advent Children Cloud and shove him into the game. Because that was not his personality in the game.
 

finalark

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I'll just agree to disagree then.

I'm a traditional FF fan, the new games just aren't my thing. The hyper realism aesthetic+slow withdrawal from traditional RPG conventions has just alienated me. FF12 (felt very star wars-esque with its fantasy setting) got a pass for me because of the interrelations it had with tactics and tactics advanced, but FF13 was the nail in the coffin.

I've went from "Absolutely buying FF15 no doubts in my mind" ---> "Well... I guess I can deal with this" ---> "I'm not sure if I'm buying the game anymore."
IMO FF started moving towards a more realistic style with FFVIII. It was the first game to throw the cartoony graphics of VII backwards out the window in favor for more realistic models and environments.

The more I look at XV, the more it reminds me of VIII, which is a game I like but would never classify as a favorite. Although I am really digging the game's (b)road trip since it has the potential for character driven drama and some goofiness.

Although I'd argue that moving away from traditional RPG conventions is less a problem with FF and more a problem with the JRPG genre as a whole. I've said this before, but I'll say it again for the sake of this discussion. The reason why JRPGs suffered so hard in the HD era is because (outside of handhelds) devs focused too much on trying to reinvent the genre in an attempt to keep JRPGs relevant instead of focusing on making great games by building off of what already worked.

And with them recreating FF7, I fear for them to lose some of the humor and personalities that were actually developed in the game. I sincerely hope they don't take Advent Children Cloud and shove him into the game. Because that was not his personality in the game.
We're still getting the cross dressing scene, so there's hope.

Although if you haven't seen AC Complete I really recommend it. It fixes most problems I had with the original film and feels much closer to the original game as apposed to a pretty action flick cashing in on 2000s trends.
 

Minato

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I'm more of a classic FF fan too, but I'm fine with the character designs fitting the overall direction of the game. Same goes for the all male cast. If the story leads to what is an all male cast, I'm ok with them giving that a try. Shoehorning in the young kid, the creature/monster, etc is unnecessary if they're just the playing the token role. Of course I wouldn't want all future FFs to be like XV, but I'm interested to see how XV plays out.

I'm not too worried about the FFVII remake on characters. The personalities in Advent Children were the result from what happens between the game and the movie. Kingdom Hearts pretty much based those personalities off of AC. Cloud's personality in Crisis Core pretty much fell in line with how Cloud should've been at that time, so we should be alright. I'm expecting a ton of changes in the remake actually, but I still think the spirit of FFVII will still be there.

As for XV again, S-E's going to have to release an amazing trailer again like it re-reveal if it wants me to get hyped to play it asap. The trickle of information they're giving out's been wearing me down. Nothing too exciting to make me want to buy a PS4 right away. The new KH thing is neat, but I haven't even finished BBS. I'm also not going to buy a console for just that prologue when I could play it at a friend's.
 

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We're still getting the cross dressing scene, so there's hope.

Although if you haven't seen AC Complete I really recommend it. It fixes most problems I had with the original film and feels much closer to the original game as apposed to a pretty action flick cashing in on 2000s trends.
Yes I definitely agree with the assessment of AC complete, it fills in a lot of the holes that the original movie had. Especially why Cloud is all emo again after being alright at the end of the game.

Considering how a lot of people are worrying about FF's direction lately, I can't wait for Final Reality 1. Coming out 2020 :D
 

finalark

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Yes I definitely agree with the assessment of AC complete, it fills in a lot of the holes that the original movie had. Especially why Cloud is all emo again after being alright at the end of the game.
The extended screen time given to Denzel also does wonders for the movie. In AC Complete his personality and relationship with Cloud and Tifa is really fleshed out, making him feel like a character rather than the original where he's a walking plot device that we're supposed to care about because the script said so.

Also, showing how badly geostigma wrecks the body makes Cloud's attitude a bit more understandable. It doesn't just give you mildly inconvenient buses, it's like super cancer but worse.

Considering how a lot of people are worrying about FF's direction lately, I can't wait for Final Reality 1. Coming out 2020 :D
I'm more curious to know what Squeenix has planned for FFVII's 100th anniversary in 2097.
 

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The extended screen time given to Denzel also does wonders for the movie. In AC Complete his personality and relationship with Cloud and Tifa is really fleshed out, making him feel like a character rather than the original where he's a walking plot device that we're supposed to care about because the script said so.

Also, showing how badly geostigma wrecks the body makes Cloud's attitude a bit more understandable. It doesn't just give you mildly inconvenient buses, it's like super cancer but worse.
Yea now we actually got to know how he came to be under Cloud and Tifa's care, and how Cloud was trying to find a cure for it. Although he contracted it himself, adding to his list of 'failings'.

There was also the small sequence of Zack and Cloud when he is about to give up. And obviously it had a longer fight sequence with the original Omnislash making an appearance, before the buffed up Fusion Sword Omnislash :D
 
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Carrill

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This is a bit random but does anyone else want to see Agni's Philosophy become an actual Final Fantasy game?
 

finalark

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This is a bit random but does anyone else want to see Agni's Philosophy become an actual Final Fantasy game?
When Sqeenix first showed Agni's Philosophy I thought for sure there was going to be a surprise reveal at the end of the trailer that it was actually a teaser for FFXV.

Well, there's always FFXVI.
 

Minato

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I actually have no interest in it. The design and the world just didn't appeal to me at all for some reason.
 

Carrill

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For me, the thing that appeals to me the most about Agni's Philosophy is the fact that it had a female protagonist that they weren't trying overly hard to make badass. I enjoyed Lightning but the way Square Enix kept trying to convince us that she was a strong, independent woman was a missed opportunity in actually making her a sympathetic character.

I'd like to see it become Final Fantasy XVI.
 

finalark

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The thing I loved about it was the world. I never really felt like there were a ton of animeisms/JRPGisms/fantasyisms that were there just for the sake of being there. I could really buy into this world as a real place. The fact that Agni reacts like a real person would really supports this. IMO the only thing that damages the believability of the world is the fact that at the end of the tech demo we go from a shanty town to a big shiny Sci-Fi city in the background. A bit too JRPGish for me, but otherwise I was really grabbed by the demo.

If Sqeenix doesn't do something with this it will be a mistake.
 

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Yeah. I also really enjoyed how it didn't seem like a stereotype of a JRPG.
 
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I'm hoping they do something with Agni's Philosophy. Sounds odd to say I want a game out of it considering how short those two trailers/demos were, but the aesthetics of it appealed to me. Something about all the magic and whatnot against the backdrop of a shanty town was cool, distinct enough to be fantastical but not so wild that it screamed standard jRPG-faire.

Plus Agni, if that's her name anyway, just has a really cool design.
 
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Carrill

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A new Dissidia Arcade trailer was released.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0oTJiy6j8g

Normally, I'd be all over a game that would allow me to play as Terra Branford but I'm not completely sold on the fighting mechanics quite yet. I also hope that you can do 1v1 still.
 
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finalark

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I'm really hoping we get some form of local multiplayer in this and that it's not all 3v3 online.

Also, still hoping we'll see playable villains and non-protagonists (Shantotto and Y'shtola aside) soon. I really want my main man Laguna back.
 

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When's Vivi?!

I'm still disappointed FFIX and FFVI didn't get new characters in Duodecim. Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing some vids of this game in action. I'm hoping there's some big changes from the gameplay in the psp games, they were fun, but it seemed any serious play would slow things down big time and it was way to focused on dodging. Being 3v3 will probably help that actually, but I still hope they rework things if they want to add a 1v1.
 

finalark

SNORLAX
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I'm still disappointed FFIX and FFVI didn't get new characters in Duodecim.
I'm pretty sure the reason why we didn't get new FFVI reps is because FFVI is generally considered one of the weaker FFs among eastern fans, or so I've heard.

I imagine we didn't get Vivi because the devs thought he would be too similar to Shantotto.
 

Rutger

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I'm pretty sure the reason why we didn't get new FFVI reps is because FFVI is generally considered one of the weaker FFs among eastern fans, or so I've heard.

I imagine we didn't get Vivi because the devs thought he would be too similar to Shantotto.
I'd imagine time played the biggest role.

I'm not sure who would be the best pick for FFVI. Locke or Celes I guess, Celes is very similar to Terra but they could play up her melee side more or something. They could always go for someone else for gameplay variety.

I don't think there's much of a problem with Vivi being like Shantotto, many spells are already reused in different ways. However if time was limited I can see that being a reason for leaving him out. I'd be okay with any other FFIX character though.

Whatever happens, I hope they keep adding to this new game for a while, there's a lot of characters they can work with.
 
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