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Ganondorf 2.1-3.0 Video Archive [Closed]
- Thread starter Zujx
- Start date
Ya that was straight disrespect. Kudos to you.
more of my Ganondorf!
vs Ness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts0gE4HMyTY&list=PLAIIMiVssmgoneLqnO4mpVcF3g2hL6-S4&index=8
vs Marth (1st match only)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thwL_4nXZyY&list=PLAIIMiVssmgoneLqnO4mpVcF3g2hL6-S4&index=17
Critique is quite welcome
vs Ness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts0gE4HMyTY&list=PLAIIMiVssmgoneLqnO4mpVcF3g2hL6-S4&index=8
vs Marth (1st match only)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thwL_4nXZyY&list=PLAIIMiVssmgoneLqnO4mpVcF3g2hL6-S4&index=17
Critique is quite welcome
Switching out from Ganon? Blasphemy!
Also, are you guys just like...recording your matches off from twitch for your youtube uploads or something?
There's absolutely no reason there should be any lag, they should be saving the matches from the capture card onto a storage device.
But anywho, onto the actual matches.
As the people commentating said, you challenged Ness' upB too many times and lost every single time. You either need to go at it right away (very risky) or wait until the end to punish.
Also, SDI-ing out of PK fire is critical for fighting against Ness
Against the Marth, there were a few times you could've tried recovering high in order to avoid being edgehogged. You'd probably still get punished for it, but at least it wouldn't be a stock.
And speaking of edehogging, you never went onto the ledge to do the same to him. It's fairly easy to edgehog Marth.
Also when he's up on the stage waiting to fsmash your recover, you gotta sweetspot the ledge, else you're just gonna eat it.
Yeah I don't know why I keep forgetting to ledge hog Marth.
What I should've done that first match with Ness was actually go for the side B on that last stock edge guard. I'll need to keep my port priority lower from now on lol.
Yeah I've been taking the matches on twitch and sending them straight to youtube. just really easy that way. the audio delay is hit and miss, sometimes there's none and sometimes there's a slight bit. I'm gonna try to have that fixed next time.
What I should've done that first match with Ness was actually go for the side B on that last stock edge guard. I'll need to keep my port priority lower from now on lol.
Yeah I've been taking the matches on twitch and sending them straight to youtube. just really easy that way. the audio delay is hit and miss, sometimes there's none and sometimes there's a slight bit. I'm gonna try to have that fixed next time.
Your second match against Ness is pretty much unwatchable due to the video freezing up, I really don't recommend doing it that way.
Also yeah, freakin port priority. I never know if I should bring that up if my opponent is already plugged into port 1 before we start, since then they'll expect me to Ganoncide. Though I suppose them knowing and still being able to pull it off if the opportunity arises is better than not being able to do it at all at a last stock situation. But if I want to use it when I'm a stock up, it'd be better if they didn't know...blargh, I hope the PMBR fixes it soon.
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oh god, dat randall...
BladeOFLucas
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2013
- Messages
- 249
Seriously dude, everybody uses secondaries. M2K uses secondaries, heck does M2K have a primary? Certain characters just aren't good for certian MU's why you hatin on G-dorf
bandi
Smash Cadet
One must become Ganon, to truly fist your opponent into nemesis.
I was yesterday at a small tourney. Played some Melee and afterwards P:M. I've gotten quite good since I've started my little thread searching for a scene. I was even able to win against Melee players who are in for the fun for at least 3-5 + years (In P:M of course, still get bodied in Melee). The point is, I've gotten only so good, because I always played Ganon, without ever thinking to decide for a second character even if that meant that my opponent is going to counter-pick my Manondorf. I've lost countless battles with him, but only throughout that experience I was able to accquire a taste for Ganondorf.
People here are complaining that Ganondorf is lowtier, that he is ****. That is partially true, however there is still much to find about Ganon in the first place. People who tend to switch character, don't believe enough in him. That's the reason someone has yet to reach Grand Finales with Ganon only. It is hard as ****, bit it is possible. Ganon is all about fu**ing with your opponents head. Master that, and you shall get a harem worth a thousand of WPs hitting a spacie.
In that manner : Shoutouts to ya'alls Ganon mains - don't ever dare to switch him in a tourney, otherwise WP yourself in the nuts for your blassphemy.
I was yesterday at a small tourney. Played some Melee and afterwards P:M. I've gotten quite good since I've started my little thread searching for a scene. I was even able to win against Melee players who are in for the fun for at least 3-5 + years (In P:M of course, still get bodied in Melee). The point is, I've gotten only so good, because I always played Ganon, without ever thinking to decide for a second character even if that meant that my opponent is going to counter-pick my Manondorf. I've lost countless battles with him, but only throughout that experience I was able to accquire a taste for Ganondorf.
People here are complaining that Ganondorf is lowtier, that he is ****. That is partially true, however there is still much to find about Ganon in the first place. People who tend to switch character, don't believe enough in him. That's the reason someone has yet to reach Grand Finales with Ganon only. It is hard as ****, bit it is possible. Ganon is all about fu**ing with your opponents head. Master that, and you shall get a harem worth a thousand of WPs hitting a spacie.
In that manner : Shoutouts to ya'alls Ganon mains - don't ever dare to switch him in a tourney, otherwise WP yourself in the nuts for your blassphemy.
Hungry Headcrab
Smash Ace
Ha, this is hilarious.
Still though, there's no shame in having secondaries. There are a lot of amazingly fun characters in this game to pick up, and Ganon has his fair share of bad matchups to watch out for.
That said, I'm a Ganon purist myself (except for friendlies, obviously), so I think I get where you're coming from. Gotta keep that flag flying for Ganondorf the Manondorf!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSlvtxXYMvE
Here's Secret Sauce's Ganon. He's mainly a melee player, but he did take Ganon to 5th place in this tournament.
Here's Secret Sauce's Ganon. He's mainly a melee player, but he did take Ganon to 5th place in this tournament.
bandi
Smash Cadet
His Ganon is not bad at all! Although he wrote in the comments, that he chocked and didn't play really well. Keep 'em coming, we need more Ganon Videos!
Ganon match from last week's weekly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzERxYASIIw&list=PLAIIMiVssmgoNMbsRMGs5fDScHYBSAYwv&index=3
I was expecting to lose but surprisingly did really well. Still have a bad habit of not taking the most efficient option but I'm getting there. The guy I played against is a really solid melee player.
Also I love fighting spacies with Ganon. The neutral is still a little frustrating but the punish is so satisfying.
Edit: My own comments to make after watching:
Need to arty vortex more. Very good at shutting down Falcon's approach and nifty at closer range, definitely a lot less risky and a stronger punish option than the classic melee Ftilt.
Should go for uair/reverse uair a lot more often for edge guarding.
Should be a lot more comfortable with hogging the ledge, because even if Falcon lands on the stage with up B, he has really bad ending lag and ledge hop uair/fair/side B are pretty much guaranteed.
Wizard's foot edge guard might be good if Falcon is recovering from below.
After grounded side b, dash dance camping into dash attack (if Falcon rolls) or grab (if he techs in place or get up attacks) appears to be guaranteed. Tech roll might be short but he does it quick enough that punishing with wiz kick on reaction is really tough.
This match up is so much better in PM than melee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzERxYASIIw&list=PLAIIMiVssmgoNMbsRMGs5fDScHYBSAYwv&index=3
I was expecting to lose but surprisingly did really well. Still have a bad habit of not taking the most efficient option but I'm getting there. The guy I played against is a really solid melee player.
Also I love fighting spacies with Ganon. The neutral is still a little frustrating but the punish is so satisfying.
Edit: My own comments to make after watching:
Need to arty vortex more. Very good at shutting down Falcon's approach and nifty at closer range, definitely a lot less risky and a stronger punish option than the classic melee Ftilt.
Should go for uair/reverse uair a lot more often for edge guarding.
Should be a lot more comfortable with hogging the ledge, because even if Falcon lands on the stage with up B, he has really bad ending lag and ledge hop uair/fair/side B are pretty much guaranteed.
Wizard's foot edge guard might be good if Falcon is recovering from below.
After grounded side b, dash dance camping into dash attack (if Falcon rolls) or grab (if he techs in place or get up attacks) appears to be guaranteed. Tech roll might be short but he does it quick enough that punishing with wiz kick on reaction is really tough.
This match up is so much better in PM than melee.
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good job on his fox! you took the biggest dump on his head ever!
against the falcon, you went for flame choke a bit too much in neutral. you didn't get punished too hard for it, at least not often, but you were really reaching and if he had a bit more experience with your range on it, he could've baited you hard with dash dancing and you would've been eating knees/etc... all day : /
i was going to mention edgehogging, but you noticed it yourself. otherwise, i'm not sure what you want to use to edgeguard falcon from the stage. against ganons you want to angle ftilt down (stanky leg), since it's super hard to sweetspot against that. i think falcon has slightly better animations to avoid that, though. maybe a super low fair, to hit through the stage? i think your best option is to just edgehog into punish, though...
against the falcon, you went for flame choke a bit too much in neutral. you didn't get punished too hard for it, at least not often, but you were really reaching and if he had a bit more experience with your range on it, he could've baited you hard with dash dancing and you would've been eating knees/etc... all day : /
i was going to mention edgehogging, but you noticed it yourself. otherwise, i'm not sure what you want to use to edgeguard falcon from the stage. against ganons you want to angle ftilt down (stanky leg), since it's super hard to sweetspot against that. i think falcon has slightly better animations to avoid that, though. maybe a super low fair, to hit through the stage? i think your best option is to just edgehog into punish, though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5NopsPlOf4
disclaimer: this isn't me at all.
i just found this looking through my youtube suggestions. that j-slo guy is pretty cool : o
disclaimer: this isn't me at all.
i just found this looking through my youtube suggestions. that j-slo guy is pretty cool : o
bandi
Smash Cadet
Here's my first recording. I'm playing against a veteran melee player who got interested in P:M. I recorded about 2:30h worth of footage of me getting my s***handed.
Before critizing my ass unto oblivion i'd like to emphasize that it was my first time playing against Mario. I'm trying a lotta stuff out, in order to get the hang of the MU.
Another thing was, that I wasn't clearly thinking because just the other day I read this thread http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-needs-to-be-closer-to-melees-version.351757/#post-16571317
It kinda resounded within me - maybe he's trolling, or perhaps he's bloody right. I'm very interested to see perspective of Ganondorf, tbh. Anyhow - here are 3 matches with me playing against Mario. There were a lot of things I did wrong
if there is interest to be found, i'll upload new material. Hf!
Edit : Rewatched my Video and noticed that my execution isn't always spott on, as well as my DI.
Before critizing my ass unto oblivion i'd like to emphasize that it was my first time playing against Mario. I'm trying a lotta stuff out, in order to get the hang of the MU.
Another thing was, that I wasn't clearly thinking because just the other day I read this thread http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-needs-to-be-closer-to-melees-version.351757/#post-16571317
It kinda resounded within me - maybe he's trolling, or perhaps he's bloody right. I'm very interested to see perspective of Ganondorf, tbh. Anyhow - here are 3 matches with me playing against Mario. There were a lot of things I did wrong
if there is interest to be found, i'll upload new material. Hf!
Edit : Rewatched my Video and noticed that my execution isn't always spott on, as well as my DI.
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That third match was really awesome on your part. Terrific follow ups off aerial side B.
It seemed like Mario was able to DI far enough away off aerial side B towards the end of that match that you couldn't hit with jab. It looked like the hitstun and airtime was just enough to fit in an ftilt though.
Also, if you're close enough to the edge that you can go all (or mostly vertical) with up B, it might not be a bad idea to reverse the up B so that if mario capes you, you end up back on the stage. Happened once.
Overall, your movement looks pretty fluid. That Mario didn't spam fireballs as much as he could've though lol.
It seemed like Mario was able to DI far enough away off aerial side B towards the end of that match that you couldn't hit with jab. It looked like the hitstun and airtime was just enough to fit in an ftilt though.
Also, if you're close enough to the edge that you can go all (or mostly vertical) with up B, it might not be a bad idea to reverse the up B so that if mario capes you, you end up back on the stage. Happened once.
Overall, your movement looks pretty fluid. That Mario didn't spam fireballs as much as he could've though lol.
bandi
Smash Cadet
Well, thanks
! But as said before, I took the first 20minutes off the recording and quickly sumed up the "best" parts. There are still videos were I really mess up some basic stuff and my inner self goes crazy. I think I'll upload them somehwere out the line to get more con(de)structive critic.I'll try to implement that tool into my gameplay. Seems overall a better idea to sweetspot the ledge with reversed Up-B.
Again, thanks mate! Makes me feel good that my time invested in this game pays off by someone giving compliments, if I may say so. Few months ago I made my first post here on the P:M boards searching for a scene in Austria. See where that got me =)! You really made my day man! (They still don't take P:M all too seriously :-/)
Tee, that player i was "sparing" with, is a melee Samus main and plays her roughly for about 5-6 years. The parts where he didn't spam fireballs was to see what I was going to do - as you see, his defensive fundamentals are quite overwhelming. His playstyle is throughly intelligent. He could've done of course better(as well as me), however it's his second time playing Mario in P:M. Big kudos to him and to Kadano, who made this recording possible.
shwickid222
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 226
Ill post my ganon vs ness fights. And my ganon vs ivy fight
shwickid222
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 226
dude, your movement looks super spot on, good ****. you're also on point for your tech reads and punishes.
the biggest thing i'd say that was holding you back in the ivy match is that you'd get off the ledge too soon. you should hang there longer, especially if she's forced to upb tether it. the tether can't hurt you if it's grabbing the ledge, so you can just chill out and try to react to ivy pulling up and going into the forced jump. that might've gotten you the one kill you needed to win round one.
the biggest thing i'd say that was holding you back in the ivy match is that you'd get off the ledge too soon. you should hang there longer, especially if she's forced to upb tether it. the tether can't hurt you if it's grabbing the ledge, so you can just chill out and try to react to ivy pulling up and going into the forced jump. that might've gotten you the one kill you needed to win round one.
shwickid222
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 226
Thanks cory I've improved soo much. I will win a damn tourney as ganon. Mark my words lol
what region do you play in?
shwickid222
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 226
I feel like on ps2 you were just trying to be flashy bandi. And remember... a fast ganon isn't always a smart ganon. Gj though.
shwickid222
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 226
I'm midwest. I'm fron trenton mi.
bandi
Smash Cadet
True dat.
Well, tbh - i'm very quircky. Always moving around and dash dancing like DK on crack iM able to keep my concentration whilst not losing momentum.
Whenever I get comboed ( hope i wrote that right) I immediatly go to auto pilot.
So after dropping Bowser I've picked up my former melee main Ganon. Having a blast playing him, working on better utilizing his new options as well as shaking the rust from my previous Ganon experience. Here's some vids from a smashfest yesterday, feedback is always appreciated.
vs Riff (Falco)
vs Amsah (Ivysaur)
vs Amsah (Ivysaur)
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Scuba Steve
Smash Ace
Good stuff, man! You've already started making good use of Ganon's new tools in PM, especially flame choke. You got a little overzealous with it at times, but I haven't seen a Ganon yet who isn't at least a little bit guilty of that. One thing you could try implementing into your game is using the new and improved nair. It's probably a result of maining Ganon in Melee, where Ganon's nair is near useless, but I noticed that you didn't throw a nair out once. Ganon's nair has a very lenient auto-cancel window and it has many more active frames than it did in Melee. With the low landing lag of the auto-cancelled nair, you can throw out tilts and jabs very quickly upon landing. A Ganon player named Arty uses this A LOT and it really showcases the utility to Ganon's new nair. It works wonders against people who aren't familiar with it because you can just throw out a nair close to them and they will instinctively run in to try to punish the whiffed aerial only to receive a boot to the face.
You can watch Arty use it here in his set against SFAT at The Big House 3. Set starts at about 1:54:00
http://www.twitch.tv/umsmash/b/469578532
Also, try to get some vids up where you get beat pretty soundly! You'll be able to get much better feedback when you're being exposed. For the most part, you were giving the guys in these vids a beatdown!
You can watch Arty use it here in his set against SFAT at The Big House 3. Set starts at about 1:54:00
http://www.twitch.tv/umsmash/b/469578532
Also, try to get some vids up where you get beat pretty soundly! You'll be able to get much better feedback when you're being exposed. For the most part, you were giving the guys in these vids a beatdown!
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Nice job ace, that Dthrow to dunk on Ivy 3rd match was beautiful. One advice I have is that you should refrain from abusing the ledge drop jump waveland when on the edge, because you got punished for it way too often. It's cool and stuff and it feels good to do, but it's punishable. Else just work on your timings and yeah, use more SHFF Nairs.
Amsah got so greedy at the end of that second match haha.
I dunno if that was your setup or someone elses, but it appears to be running 3.0, so whoever it belongs to should get on updating to 3.02.
Anywho, that was some super solid play. Those ledgeguards, damn. You used Wizard's Foot to land on stage a couple times though, which rarely ends well unless you ledgecancel it (which can be very useful in surprising your opponents). There was also that one Flame Choke you used a distance away from the stage to recover, but I'm sure you realized that's not a good idea.
I dunno if that was your setup or someone elses, but it appears to be running 3.0, so whoever it belongs to should get on updating to 3.02.
Anywho, that was some super solid play. Those ledgeguards, damn. You used Wizard's Foot to land on stage a couple times though, which rarely ends well unless you ledgecancel it (which can be very useful in surprising your opponents). There was also that one Flame Choke you used a distance away from the stage to recover, but I'm sure you realized that's not a good idea.
Thanks guys. I've seen some Arty vids but I keep forgetting nair is pretty good now.
I keep thinking 'oh aerial downB is safer now, let's use it to get to the ground' but unless you hit with it or ledgecancel you're still boned lol. And I'm pretty sure that sideB was supposed to be a downB (which was still a bad idea because of how close to the stage I was).
Some more friendlies vs Faab which I had to edit because of us messing around too much:
vs Roy
I suck at edgegaurding Roy... Any tips?
vs Samus
It was my setup, upgraded it to 3.02 today.
I keep thinking 'oh aerial downB is safer now, let's use it to get to the ground' but unless you hit with it or ledgecancel you're still boned lol. And I'm pretty sure that sideB was supposed to be a downB (which was still a bad idea because of how close to the stage I was).
I wasn't planning to go down with him with that dunk (I was aiming for a ledgeslam) but hey I guess it kinda worked out.
Well one of the dudes I'm playing is Amsah, european melee legend who actually has a decently developed Ivysaur, within my country I'm not really gonna find much better competition. But yeah I agree and I won't refrain from posting matches where I get wrecked, have another tourney in two weeks.
Some more friendlies vs Faab which I had to edit because of us messing around too much:
vs Roy
I suck at edgegaurding Roy... Any tips?
vs Samus
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Scuba Steve
Smash Ace
Roy is just pretty awkward to edgeguard in general. His up-b seems to beat out pretty much everything I've ever thrown at it. Roys usually like to use it to interrupt people's edgeguards because it's so hard to punish on hit. The best I've ever really gotten out of challenging it is a trade, but I have seen M2K use a reverse bair with Fox to stuff Roy's up-b at Apex. As for why that worked, I have no clue. Most of the time, I'll just try to go for a ledge hog if I knock them far enough away, but if I can't do that, I'll concede the ledge and just try to wall them out near the edge with nairs and tilts.
ShadowGanon
Smash Lord
Scuba Steve
Smash Ace
I know this is mostly a joke, but Ganon's grab range is terrible for things low to the ground and won't be able to grab Roy unless he does a really terrible job of sweetspotting. Even then, good Roys will wait until the other player commits to a jump before they up-b. Sethlon does it all the time.
shwickid222
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 226
shwickid222
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2013
- Messages
- 226
I'm the guy with the tats
Scuba Steve
Smash Ace
One thing you can do to help with the PK Fire is to fight the urge to shield it. Even if you shield it and manage to get away from it without taking damage, you concede a lot of ground in the neutral game doing so. When you are focusing on getting away from the big pillar of fire, Ness will take the opportunity to get into a better position to lay down the hurt. I'm not suggesting that you should let yourself get hit by it rather than shield it, rather you should make it your goal to use your movement to avoid the PK Fire as much as possible.
Another thing you can improve on in this match-up, your DI on his throws. Your DI was like downright awful on those back throws half the time. Both of Ness's most frequently used throws in this match-up, back throw and down throw, have pretty lenient windows on which you can react and DI accordingly. For Ness's back throw, which will mostly be used at kill percents, the optimal DI is really just whatever puts you closest to the top corner. Ness's down throw is a bit trickier. Like many characters in PM, Ness's down throw pretty much has a guaranteed follow up at a wide range of percents. What follow up you can be hit by is determined by the way you DI. If you DI into Ness, you'll pop up directly above Ness and you will probably eat a nasty back air, like you did many times. If you DI away it seems like you can get hit by either fairs, nairs, or some magnet shenanigan stuff that I don't know about because Ness is weird as ****. Which way you DI should really be decided on what you want to get hit by. If your back is to the ledge and you get grabbed, you should also be wary of DI'ing away from Ness because offstage dairs are also a possibility.
You also seemed unsure of what aerials to use against PKT2. You want to avoid trading with PKT2 as much as possible, simply because it hits really freakin' hard. I've had the most success in stuffing it with bairs. Ganon's bair has a strangely huge amount of priority and the hitbox stays out for a good while. When trying to hit Ness out of his PKT2, make sure that you hit him in the later part of the trajectory because he has invincibility in the first part of it.
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