Ganon META Thread : discussions and suggestions go here !

[ViewtifulHoe242]

on the topic on better victory poses the soul calibur series has some of the coolest victory poses and lines ever.
i could imagine ganon or mewtwo using some of cervantes or nightmares lines.

Spoiler

I shall show you... the end of days!
It doesn't matter... how much you struggle!
You shall have a taste... of my cursed sword.
Drown in the cesspool of darkness.
You cannot defeat me, now or ever!
Wallow in your despair!
Power flows through me.
No one can stop me!
Stop struggling!
There won't be anything left of you.
Taste the pain I have endured!
I am immortal! Can you say the same?

Spoiler

some of these fit ganon so good its scary... too bad no one talks in the legend of Zelda games.

 

[Alter Requiem]

as a massive soul calibur fan since soul edge, i would find it jarring as hell to have ANY character from that game speaking through mewtwo. if anything, just rip lines from Pokemon: the first movie. also ganon doesnt talk lol

at least not since these days rofl

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

when i dig deeper in brawl sfx modding, i'll have to try this out for the the dorf and show you guys how it turns out.
would be easier to just kidnap m2 and ganons voice actors and make them say the lines but noooo its illegal

 

[Alter Requiem]

does anyone even know what an actual voice for ganon would sound like? i have a feeling he would end up sounding like the talking mucus in those mucinex commercials.

 

[SixSaw]

does anyone even know what an actual voice for ganon would sound like?

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

Heh! What does the Fox say? TRADITIOOOOON!

Anyway... I'm not as familiar with TP Ganon, so I automatically think of his voice in Zelda 64.

 

[Alter Requiem]

I think his Warlock Punch animation (darkness effect and all) should replace his Fsmash animation. By doing this he gets a unique to him fsmash and he sort of "keeps" warlock punch but it would be useful now. He totally should receive a unique N Special. What ever it may be it would be better than what he has now.

Just threw this together. think it works for it.

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Fsmashedit

 

[Nguz95]

We need the smoke weed everyday voice clip back.

 

[Yanoss1313]

We need the smoke weed everyday voice clip back.

agreed

 

[bandi]

Don't really know if it was mentioned, but it's just a suggestion from my side.

You all know Ganons Up-Taunt, right?
What if Ganons Up-Taunt would be exchanged with neutral B. In this case Ganons new B does some sort of Nayru's love while also being prone to combo and reflecting projectiles.
As for aesthetics imagine a dark/thunder-ish aura surrounding Ganon when executing his B.

As for the power-up idea: One might use Side-Taunt to use the charge for power-uppin'. Lucario has the combination of A+B/Up-Taunt gain a charge. Why shouldn't Ganondorf have something similar?

 

[Nguz95]

I think he just needs the smoke weed everyday clip and he would be good.

 

[CORY]

give him his utaunt laugh as a hidden taunt on his dair.

that's all ganon needs.

 

[SixSaw]

The warlock punch sfx would be better imo. Or an actual thunder clap. Or an organ solo.

 

[Nate "Yaks" Gath]

Okay, here's my analysis.

Ganondorf as a Character

Weaknesses: Poor mobility:

The thing is that if you utilize Gannon's waveland you get a much more forgiving mobility even though his wavedash is considerably good but his waveland actually causes little no lag so that you can use your air priority and mobility to the advantage when moving about the stage. Improving tech skill is hard but rewarding once you get everything down.

 

[Coastward]

decided to start posting in this thread because apparently my ganon is good in PM.

hi.

 

[Yanoss1313]

decided to start posting in this thread because apparently my ganon is good in PM.

hi.

hi

 

[teluoborg]

Dat ain't social.

But hi.

 

[Nguz95]

decided to start posting in this thread because apparently my ganon is good in PM.

hi.

Waz gud?

 

[Coastward]

anyone else from toronto or the GTA?

 

[CORY]

had a sort of random thought.

background: guilty gear has throw invuln moves (pretty universal, usually 6k). what if ganon had throw invuln frames on his utilt startup? (or really any particular move. i just went with utilt since it seems lacking a niche, since "really good kill move" is filled by most of ganon's everything else...).

would that actually help him any? my thought process is something like: when he gets you in shield and lands an aerial, he pretty much lcancels into jab, then uses ftilt to space after that. against someone with a larger grab range, that doesn't really work well. so, what if he had a mixup? i don't think it works as well in the real world as in my head, but that's why i'm just tossing it out there.

 

[Alter Requiem]

im wondering what else you could throw into that combo to mix it up enough to not get tethered.

 

[batistabus]

Ganon is super fun. Even if his recovery is balls and he really has to commit to combos, the challenge and how hard he hits are really appealing to me. However, dealing with projectiles is not fun, and there's not really anything Ganon can do about them in most situations.

So...what if Ganon had passive light-armor? It could basically function like Bowser's crouch armor, except it would be active at all times (up to a certain percent like Bowser's). Even if this required a few nerfs to balance out, I still think it could preserve what's fun about Ganon without changing his move-set in a weird way, and it would only really help him in the matches he already struggles a lot in. It would be better to just make him immune to projectiles up to a certain knock-back/damage value, but I don't know if that's even possible to program. He's the King of Evil and he's sturdy, so this trait could make sense with his character.

This is all hypothesizing...it could end up making him broken and stupid. Just something that crossed my mind.

 

[SixSaw]

Being able to run through Falco's lasers or Mario's fireballs would be soooooo much fun. Passive armor is a cool idea. It doesn't sound like it would be that op provided it didn't work on anything stronger than flinch hits, but what do I know.

 

[teluoborg]

I admit it would be fun... from Ganon's point of view.

I don't think it's healthy to negate some character's tool just because they are annoying. Having a move that negates them is a thing, having a passive armor that permanently negates them is another and a step too far imo.

Ganon needs a way to deal with projectile, not a way to ignore them.

 

[King of Hoboz]

I'm not the Ganon main here, but, I worry for our Lord and Conqueror.

Say, do we have any news from the PMBR if they've experimented with any suggestions here maybe? If Ganon's on the draft board to get changed, it'd be nice to theory craft with direction.

 

[batistabus]

I don't think it's healthy to negate some character's tool just because they are annoying.

Having a move that negates them is a thing,

having a passive armor that permanently negates them is another and a step too far imo.

Projectiles are annoying for every character. It goes a bit farther than that for Ganon.

Such as? What do you suggest?

I didn't say permanently. It could be like how Bowser's armor becomes less effective when he has more damage. It wouldn't have to be all projectiles either.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Teluoborg mentioned putting my idea on this thread, so I'll just elaborate on it here.

So, ever heard of what Lex Luthor did in Injustice? His special ability was clicking some buttons and getting persistent armor that lasts until the next time he got hit. What if...Ganon had that instead of Neutral B. It'd vastly shift the dynamic of a few match-ups by allowing him to force approaches and get more safe options against projectiles and pressure.

There's a few ways to go about how this 'Dark Aura Armor' would work. You could have it so that charging the neutral b longer grants more degrees of knockback resistance. A brief swig of armor could resist a tilt at a low percent, and a bit longer could resist more. The other option is to have it resist any hit, but restrict the netural B use through a cooldown. Either could work.

There'd be loads of situations where this move could create interesting situations, as well as plenty of things that could easily defeat it as to not create some lopsided dynamic which would break Ganon.
On the negatives of it, it would vanish on any hits, including a few brief hits of Fox Lasers, making Ganon still vulnerable to multi-hit; which is fair. Ganon shouldn't have a end all be all to projectiles and pressure.

But! It'd make Flame Choke and Aerial trades even better. Armor up, throw the Flame Choke and now you have 2 sets of armor, Aura+Grab armor. Aerial trades lead to you out right winning with no need to recover.

Lastly, it creates a new dynamic against characters who don't hold good projectiles. For them, the easiest way to defeat the aura is to grab Ganon, and approaching Ganon is a scary proposition.

^ This was my suggestion just 1 page ago. It's basically a temp armor. Teluoborg expands on it on page 5 also.

 

[CORY]

from what i've heard through the grapevine, ganon is "being looked at", which doesn't necessarily mean much more than what we've heard on the boards. specifically, if any changes would happen they would be in relation to his neutral/approach game (improving it slightly, maybe toning down his power so he's less polarized in that way) and/or helping him deal with pressure.

zero concrete info other than that, though.

personally, i've been thinking about what could be fun (and/or useful : p) for ganon, other than my shot in the dark "grab invuln on moves" line. someone posted some link to something they did in melee, where ganon slammed the ground and made a HUGE earthquake that knocked characters down into forced tech and that stuck with me, it just seems something the triforce of power would do.

but, it had warlock punch length startup, so that doesn't help much, since it'll just get knocked out by any projectile, or the opponent can just super easily jump as it goes off. so, my thought process led me to: what if he could charge it up. so, if you double tapped, you got a quick-ish one that only had a small range, like maybe ftilt range on either side. the charge cancel could be pretty quick, so you could use it to goad campy players into you.

as it charged up, the radius for the earthquake increased up until something nutty, like, entire battlefield main platform length, and at higher levels it could have a projectile protection of some sort. using it in the air would make him plummet straight down (THREE WAYS TO GANON-CIDE!) and would make the earthquake as he landed or something.

i've got it a bit better planned in my head, but just throwing it out there. basically:
charging it would make people want to approach ganon, since who wants to deal with a shockwave the size of bf? if you let him charge it, he gets a shockwave the size of bf that acts like dk's ground pound.

 

[Yanoss1313]

from what i've heard through the grapevine, ganon is "being looked at", which doesn't necessarily mean much more than what we've heard on the boards. specifically, if any changes would happen they would be in relation to his neutral/approach game (improving it slightly, maybe toning down his power so he's less polarized in that way) and/or helping him deal with pressure.

zero concrete info other than that, though.

personally, i've been thinking about what could be fun (and/or useful : p) for ganon, other than my shot in the dark "grab invuln on moves" line. someone posted some link to something they did in melee, where ganon slammed the ground and made a HUGE earthquake that knocked characters down into forced tech and that stuck with me, it just seems something the triforce of power would do.

but, it had warlock punch length startup, so that doesn't help much, since it'll just get knocked out by any projectile, or the opponent can just super easily jump as it goes off. so, my thought process led me to: what if he could charge it up. so, if you double tapped, you got a quick-ish one that only had a small range, like maybe ftilt range on either side. the charge cancel could be pretty quick, so you could use it to goad campy players into you.

as it charged up, the radius for the earthquake increased up until something nutty, like, entire battlefield main platform length, and at higher levels it could have a projectile protection of some sort. using it in the air would make him plummet straight down (THREE WAYS TO GANON-CIDE!) and would make the earthquake as he landed or something.

i've got it a bit better planned in my head, but just throwing it out there. basically:
charging it would make people want to approach ganon, since who wants to deal with a shockwave the size of bf? if you let him charge it, he gets a shockwave the size of bf that acts like dk's ground pound.

That's actually one of the most interesting ideas I've seen for his B, giving him a high threat chargeable like that (aka: dk or samus) can really help encourage people to approach you.

 

[CORY]

so, the better planning in my head:

three levelsfour levels (for simlicity).
level one is uncharged, just slam that ground. probably have no kind of projectile safety or anything. smallish shockwaves on either side of him, like, maybe half ftilt range?

level two, charging for so long, shockwaves get bigger, like full ftilt range.

level three, maybe halfway through the charge: you get the first shockwave, followed quickly by a second one, just past the first one. these only just knock down into a tech.

level four, get that battlefield sized ****! three different hitboxes, each coming out sequentially. they each try to link to one another, the final one knocks up and towards you, ala ground pound. gg, guys, you got triforced.

 

[bandi]

You could do a poll :
Do you like Super Saiyan Ganon?
a) Yes
b) it's over 999%
c) Can't wait to see his golden pubic hair.

Btw, how long would it Ganon take to charg up his attack? It's gotta be tournament viable and the attack sounds kinda imba. Love the idea though.

 

[CORY]

i have no idea how long it would take to charge. probably standard "samus charge shot/dk giant punch" level.

and yeah, it's likely way too big, but it would also only be ground level (like ground pound) and would require you to charge it up before it got the huge hitbox that pops the opponent up into you, so it might actually work itself out.

i was also thinking the final two stages could have projectile invuln or some sort of armor against projectiles? so you don't just get pit arrow'd out of it on startup or something lame.

LET'S JUST TAKE THIS AS FAR AS POSSIBLE : D

 

[bandi]

I don't know, projectiles are quite fast and if Ganon needs about ~2 seconds to be impregnable against projectiles I'd really think twice about doing the move. On other hand Ganon doesn't get a new approaching tool, which means that there isn't really a "change" in Ganon's playstyle. Don't get me wrong, I love Ganon how he is right now but he would still succumb to the ol' bait and punish strat.

Think about playing against a good Link, how'd that move work in synergy with Ganon's existing moveset? What does he need, that he lacks right now? Is this move usable as approaching tool? You have to keep many factors in mind when designing an attack/move.

Anyhow, I like your idea very much but it lacks a certain "punch".

 

[CORY]

yeah, it didn't feel too solid, which is why i threw it out here (and i drew that picture up on corel painter in about 15 minutes, so real time lost : p).

i like it more as a "stop dd camping and approach me!" tool. it'll be hard to give ganon something that helps with that directly while also helping against projectiles directly without, like, just taking a giant dump on samus or something. my main idea was, as stated, to mostly help him with the approach/neutral game situation. either approach him, so he can't get off his stupidly huge attack, or let him setup for his stupidly huge attack and don't be predictable about just being on the ground.

i'm also not a huge fan of just throwing a lot of armor onto heavies. it works really well for bowser, thematically, if not so much in practice. charizard has surprisingly high speed for his power and weight class, so that's his perk, if you will. ike has qd and a HUGE sword (while not super heavy, he's still up there, iirc). snake has his stage control and upb oos, along with c4 helping net super super early kills.

ddd and ganon seem to be the ones who lack the most, though they have a general idea about how they want to play. ganon is all about power and hitting you harder than you can hit him. ddd has a lot of range and coverage on his moves. they're lacking little bits around (i think a lot of it is just they're too immobile. ganon could stand to have his jump squat reduced, maybe ddd, too. can't comment too much on the deedster, though, as i don't really play him).

 

[Bazkip]

I find it frustrating and illogical when I grab someone at low damage with Ganon's up B while recovering, and after releasing them they still have plenty of time to be able to attempt to gimp me again. Getting that grab should give you a better chance of recovering, not an easier opportunity for your opponent to get a kill. I see two feasible solutions to this. One is to simply increase the base knockback of the move while decreasing the knockback growth (for balance). This would get lower damage opponents out of the way for a bit longer, and higher damage enemies would still get knocked back far enough as well. The other possibility could be that it refreshes your second jump, considering that landing it will generally push you away from the stage.

I also thought it might be neat if you could change your position while in the grab, so you could instead knock your opponent away from the stage and push yourself towards it if that wasn't the initial position. That'd likely be far too powerful though.

Thoughts?

 

[HeavyMetalThunder]

i like it more as a "stop dd camping and approach me!" tool. it'll be hard to give ganon something that helps with that directly while also helping against projectiles directly without, like, just taking a giant dump on samus or something. my main idea was, as stated, to mostly help him with the approach/neutral game situation. either approach him, so he can't get off his stupidly huge attack, or let him setup for his stupidly huge attack and don't be predictable about just being on the ground.

i'm also not a huge fan of just throwing a lot of armor onto heavies...

I really like this idea.

A defensive ability, like a shield or armor, sort of goes against ganon's main theme of raw face-breaking power. I also think a speed or power buff is risky in terms of balance, and a projectile doesn't make much sense for a character who is already too hardcore to use his own sword.

My own Idea along those lines was something similar to DDD's neutral B. It would work from any direction and have a longer range, but with a pull weak enough to DI against and obviously not have a swallow at the end. Basically a move that would make hit-and-run tactics a lot harder to pull off.

I like the ground pound better, since it accomplishes pretty much the same thing indirectly, is probably a lot easier to implement, and fits the "bare fists and bad attitude" style better.

 

[Anonistry]

Alright, let's just give him eye beams, vaccuum breath, and flight and make him superman already.

 

[bandi]

Let us overrun Ganon's entire gameplay and exchange his existing moveset with only Dair. Want a Fair? Nope, you're gonna get a Dair to the face. Want to Wizzfoot? Nope, the only foot connecting is Dair.
Yo dawg I hear you likin' Warlock Punch but you want it buffed. Well, you'll get a Dair.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

if your back is near the edge of the stage and if you're lucky,the first hit of the down smash can send foes behind you at a super low, really REALLY hard to recover angle if by some magic the second hit doesn't connect.
ooh i wish we could be able to choose whether or not we want to swing once or twice like ike's d smash. maybe then i would have more incentive to use it out of a flame choke and not good old paintrain (down b)
and whats up with all of ganons smashes sending the opponent upwards?

 

[CORY]

you know, the way his smashes (u/d) don't link between the hits is something that just straight up needs to be fixed, imo...