Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[Splebel]

Don't do it.

Spoiler

"But Splebel," you say, "I want to know how to stop doing it."
OK here you go. When you're about to do a predictable airdodge, don't do it.
"You're stupid Splebel, I can't help it if I do it."
Yes you can just think about not doing it.
"It still happens!"
You didn't try hard enough.
"I can stop it now but I can't make it become second nature."
Too bad, you need to always think about it.
"This is stupid I'm going to wait for someone else to respond"
Someone else reponds with a nicer version of "Don't do it."
"Man Splebel was right all along I should've listened."
Then I'm like, "It happens."

The End

 

[NotAnAdmin]

There is no quick fix for that, but the simplest way is to try to play with the bad habits in mind mid-battle and try to stop yourself when you see it or do force yourself to do something different.
Eventually you will find newer, better habits or think of certain ways to mix up your play.

Don't forget to always watch replays of your matches and analyze them for both good and bad points in your play.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Easy. (This exercise requires you to know your characters moves very well, so if you dont, go to training mode and see all of your characters moves).
: Put the cpu on level 3 and beat its butt for 5mins. After you get bored of beating it to a pulp, use moves you haven't used before and see what they can do. Get used to using all your moves.

 

[Ravine]

Get yo hands off the shield button. That's how I stopped my habits.

Mine probably stems from fear of losing and the urgency to kill the other player. Just stay calm throughout the match and start thinking. If you get tense and go into autopilot mode then you lose.

 

[vegeta18]

After grab release sometimes the opponent kinda hops up in the air, and sometimes they will land on the ground, how do you know which one will happen? Mostly wondering for doubles combo

 

[Splebel]

After grab release sometimes the opponent kinda hops up in the air, and sometimes they will land on the ground, how do you know which one will happen? Mostly wondering for doubles combo

If you grab them while they are in the air then they hop up afterwards. Grounded opponents don't. I'm not sure if you grab them on the ground then move off the ground but that is hard to do.

 

[Lavani]

After grab release sometimes the opponent kinda hops up in the air, and sometimes they will land on the ground, how do you know which one will happen? Mostly wondering for doubles combo

In addition to what Splebel said, if you hold a character high enough off the ground that their feet don't touch it, they'll be air released regardless of whether or not you grabbed them out of the air or on the ground.

If you grab release mid-pummel you always get a grounded release.

If your opponent mashes jump when they're released they'll be air released.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Hello, I'd like some advice on selecting characters compatible with my style of play.

Prior to this ask, I have assessed some things that I like with a character: I do like playing bait-and-punish characters, regardless of offense or defense, as I feel very comfy playing with Kirby (main) and Wario. I also seem to like floaty characters in general, as I do like playing characters like Samus and Rosalina & Luma. Characters like Zero Suit Samus I seem to struggle with since my playstyle doesn't mesh well with the character.

I'm looking for some characters that might fit this "bait-and-punish" playstyle, as well as some things to try out that might be good enough for me to understand with my mentality. Could you also please ask of some examples of how these characters might apply and work, if that isn't too much?

Thank you for the advice.

 

[Splebel]

Hello, I'd like some advice on selecting characters compatible with my style of play.

Prior to this ask, I have assessed some things that I like with a character: I do like playing bait-and-punish characters, regardless of offense or defense, as I feel very comfy playing with Kirby (main) and Wario. I also seem to like floaty characters in general, as I do like playing characters like Samus and Rosalina & Luma. Characters like Zero Suit Samus I seem to struggle with since my playstyle doesn't mesh well with the character.

I'm looking for some characters that might fit this "bait-and-punish" playstyle, as well as some things to try out that might be good enough for me to understand with my mentality. Could you also please ask of some examples of how these characters might apply and work, if that isn't too much?

Thank you for the advice.

I think you might get more luck here
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-mains-advice-thread.393398/
Captain Falcon can be bait-and-punish but he isn't floaty. I would probably stick with Kirby.

 

[SapphSabre777]

I think you might get more luck here
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-mains-advice-thread.393398/
Captain Falcon can be bait-and-punish but he isn't floaty. I would probably stick with Kirby.

My apologies, I didn't see the thread unfortunately. Thanks for directing me towards the needed place.

I guess in terms of gameplay, what is a good way of practicing perfect shielding with non-projectile moves? I feel that knowing how to PS will be great for me in terms of getting better.

 

[Mega-Xander]

Hey guys. So I'm hoping for some general advice. I just finished a weekly tournament and I was doing really well to get my opponents damage up into kill range... But it took me a while to actually get the KO, and while I did manage to get my opponents down to one stock, I could never finish with the win.

Any advice on how to seal the stocks and eventually the matches? (I play Mario if anyone has any character specific advice)

 

[Splebel]

Hey guys. So I'm hoping for some general advice. I just finished a weekly tournament and I was doing really well to get my opponents damage up into kill range... But it took me a while to actually get the KO, and while I did manage to get my opponents down to one stock, I could never finish with the win.

Any advice on how to seal the stocks and eventually the matches? (I play Mario if anyone has any character specific advice)

I would go into the Mario boards and go to the Q&A section and ask for Mario specific help. But in general just keep calm and don't do anything reckless because that's when the opponent can start turning things around. Also if you have the percent lead and there isn't too much time left. Timing them out is also a valid option.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

I get psyched out by zoners a lot.
Even when I have the advantage, MU knowledge, and confidence in my skills, I always panic and fail to shield projectiles properly. Whether it's anything from Megaman/ROB, Samus' charge shot, pika's thundershock, Pac Man's fruit, or Villager's slingshot, I almost always fail to powershield them or hold shield for too long and get grabbed.

Best ways to fix this? It's more psychological than anything, and lag only amplifies it.

 

[Splebel]

I get psyched out by zoners a lot.
Even when I have the advantage, MU knowledge, and confidence in my skills, I always panic and fail to shield projectiles properly. Whether it's anything from Megaman/ROB, Samus' charge shot, pika's thundershock, Pac Man's fruit, or Villager's slingshot, I almost always fail to powershield them or hold shield for too long and get grabbed.

Best ways to fix this? It's more psychological than anything, and lag only amplifies it.

If it's online with lag then don't worry about it. It can screw anyone up. Offline though, or in a lagless online match, depending on the stage you can just go around the projectiles instead of powershielding. Deep breathing, not Wii Fit trainer's move but actually deep breathing, can help calm you down in a tense situation. The more you play, the less you should panic also because you should've been in that situation enough times to not panic. Zoners also tend to have slow grabs, Pac-Man and Samus especially. I know rolling tends to be frowned upon but when they get close rolling can help avoid their grab. But I will say Pac-Man really shouldn't be grabbing anyway. Also if you have the lead you can hang back can then zoners have to approach and that can be a pain.

 

[Sonicninja115]

How can I improve my mental longevity? I seem to burn out after an hour and I am hoping to be able to play a bit longer.

 

[BlueX]

How can I improve my mental longevity? I seem to burn out after an hour and I am hoping to be able to play a bit longer.

Take a break after you get burnt out and then start playing again when you feel like you want to play again.

I often like to stop playing or take a break after playing Smash 4 online but resting and taking breaks will help.

 

[teluoborg]

Hey guys. So I'm hoping for some general advice. I just finished a weekly tournament and I was doing really well to get my opponents damage up into kill range... But it took me a while to actually get the KO, and while I did manage to get my opponents down to one stock, I could never finish with the win.

Any advice on how to seal the stocks and eventually the matches? (I play Mario if anyone has any character specific advice)

You probably try to force the kill too much. By doing that you limit yourself to using only killmoves which puts you at risk and makes you become easy to predict for your opponent.
What you can do is stay patient and keep playing normally until you either find an opening for a killmove or the opponent's percents are so high you can kill with a safe move like a grab.

In short focus on not taking percents instead of trying to kill the opponent and you won't open yourself to come backs.

 

[KaaaaasKop]

Hello, I'm really in need of some advice, and I hope you can help me with that.

I've decided to join this forum because I wish to become a better Smash player. I've been playing since the N64, but I've mostly played against the CPU or really, REALLY bad players, so I don't have a lot of experience when it comes to being competitively viable.

I've read guides here and there, but it's in practice where I mess up bad. You see, I still have that "mad bull" habit (less though, been working on it) if you know what I mean. I used to get tunnelvision, won't read my opponent, and any time I'm not attacking feels like a waste, EVEN THOUGH I know that is not the way to play.

However, lately it does feel that habit is slowly fading away and I'm starting to get a little better, but if I battle any good opponent I can do naught against them. It's kinda frustrating because I have trouble reading my opponents and just don't know what to do to make sure they can't read my predictable moves, even if I change my tactics, they can still kick my butt bad.

 

[BlueX]

KaaaaasKop

What do you mean by "mad bull"?

 

[KaaaaasKop]

Well, basically storming towards the opponent like a mad bull. You know, playing way too reckless and aggressively.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Well, basically storming towards the opponent like a mad bull. You know, playing way too reckless and aggressively.

I had this problem before... (still have it now to an extent).
Best way to stop yourself from bum rushing opponents is to choose someone like Bowser or Ganon who isn't that fast and who can punish attacks really well. If you want to land the heavy punishes, you will have to force yourself to react to whatever your opponent is doing. After all, it is a PUNISH. Not an approach.

Also, a really important point is to SLOW DOWN your game. WALK. DO NOT RUN. Unless dash attack is the only way to catch an opponent rolling/landing, you will be much better off approaching slower and WAITING FOR AN OPENING, rather than trying to force one yourself in a game where most characters don't have overwhelming offense.
Try walking and using tilts instead. Or walk and jab. Or walk and shield if your opponent is rushing you with a dash attack of their own, then either shield grab them or hit them with a heavy attack and punish them for hitting your shield.
Choose a slow character with a crappy run who cannot effectively rush opponents if you need to, because playing someone like Captain Falcon or Sonic will make it harder for you to learn this.
I repeat, WALK. DO NOT RUN.

 

[KaaaaasKop]

@Duck SMASH: I see. I almost always run, so these are good tips, I'll try to work to play slower and walk instead of run. Learning to wait for an opening is good advice but I have trouble doing this against opponents who rush me, that's why I tend to rush back, which I know is wrong.

But a lot of the time I see opponents rushing me with grabs, so shields won't work against them, what do you usually do? You see, the way things are now I often get overwhelmed when people play fast, which is also a reason why I tend to move quickly in the hopes of overwhelming others, but it usually backfires lol.

Oh by the way, Pac-Man is my main at the moment, I love playing him and his movements and such just feel so right haha.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

@Duck SMASH: I see. I almost always run, so these are good tips, I'll try to work to play slower and walk instead of run. Learning to wait for an opening is good advice but I have trouble doing this against opponents who rush me, that's why I tend to rush back, which I know is wrong.

But a lot of the time I see opponents rushing me with grabs, so shields won't work against them, what do you usually do? You see, the way things are now I often get overwhelmed when people play fast, which is also a reason why I tend to move quickly in the hopes of overwhelming others, but it usually backfires lol.

Oh by the way, Pac-Man is my main at the moment, I love playing him and his movements and such just feel so right haha.

If you're getting overwhelmed by fast characters, I'd suggest visiting the Pac Man Boards and asking them how they play the character in these situations you're describing..
You have some of the best projectiles in the game for zoning opponents and setting traps. They should be approaching you instead of the other way around.
Instead of approaching them, charge up your fruit and get a key. I guarantee it will pressure people into at least walking towards you. If they try to dash grab constantly, either spot dodge the grab or jump up and hit them with your hydrant as they run beneath you.
I don't main pac, but this is what I've noticed from the various Pac Men I've fought over the months. It's just the start. Check what other Pac players have to offer, and I'm sure you'll improve your neutral even more.

 

[KaaaaasKop]

@Duck Smash

I see, thank you for the tips, you've been very helpful. I feel like I've already learned something.

 

[LovinMitts]

Hey guys, I've been playing Smash competitively for well over a year now, though mostly Melee, and after seeing me play, my younger brother wants to get into the competitive scene as well. My only issue here is I have no idea how to teach him, as I'm almost entirely self-taught.

Here's what I've done:

• He plays Captain Falcon, so I've played a lot of dittos with him, hoping he'll pick up on some of the things I do and start to do them himself.
• Every time he does something out of habit (come down with a Falcon Kick to land or something like that), I'll punish him for it and tell him that doing that every time is easy to punish.
• I down throw -> footstool him, see how he gets up, and if he gets really repetitive, I punish and tell him not to pick the same option every time. For instance, he almost always rolls towards me when I do that, so I just grab and do it again and see what he does.
• I do similar things to the last two, but with other matchups. I do things that'll force him to pick an option. Like with Villager, I fire a rocket and see how he reacts to it. He always jumps over it rather than shielding or spotdodging, and I punish him for it.

He's made significant progress in the past couple of days (we've only been at this that long). Here's what he's gotten better at:

• Whenever he knocks me down and I tech or roll away, he's typically able to react and punish it with a raptor boost, grab, or something else. This is probably the most impressive thing he's learned to do so far.
• He isn't as bad about coming down with Falcon Kicks anymore, though he still does it from time to time.
• He utilizes his character's moveset overall more effectively, rather than sticking to just a few moves.

Listed below are the things he could improve at:

• Mixing up his ledge getup options
• Going for down throw combos. So far, he only throws me off the stage in order to get stage control.
• He doesn't use very many aerials
• He's impatient. If I'm keeping it neutral, he's just run in with something unsafe and get punished.
• He doesn't use defensive options, almost ever. He'll occasionally roll.

 

[ligersandtigons]

I mostly play Falco and Roy and one of my biggest problems is getting shield-grabbed, especially when approaching through the air.

What's a good way to practice spacing by myself?

 

[BlueX]

I mostly play Falco and Roy and one of my biggest problems is getting shield-grabbed, especially when approaching through the air.

What's a good way to practice spacing by myself?

I am going to make my own method.

Go to training mode and then go to a stage of your choice with a lvl. 3 CPU. Then you can figure out the length of Falco's leg and try to space out with his foot. It is also important to practice spacing too with the CPU set too attack.

I hope this helps!

 

[ligersandtigons]

I am going to make my own method.

Go to training mode and then go to a stage of your choice with a lvl. 3 CPU. Then you can figure out the length of Falco's leg and try to space out with his foot. It is also important to practice spacing too with the CPU set too attack.

I hope this helps!

if only there was a way to set the cpu to shield grab so I always get punished off of bad spacing lol

 

[BlueX]

if only there was a way to set the cpu to shield grab so I always get punished off of bad spacing lol

It will really help you if practice with a CPU if it is set to stand still. It might be better to practice with a lvl. 1 CPU. Practice until you can space out very well.

 

[Charey]

It sounds like you are doing a good job as it is. Learning how to play at a competitive level will take some time, more so after a long time of causal play as he will have to unlearn things that fighting other causal players and the CPU have taught him to do that don't work at a higher level (Like spamming Smash attacks).

One thing you could do is record your matches and later review your sets to see how he is improving and what he still needs to work on, it's a lot easier to see what you are doing wrong after watching your play then having someone else describe the issue.

 

[ghWyPakDzVvPncx76h2J]

Hey guys, I've been playing Smash competitively for well over a year now, though mostly Melee, and after seeing me play, my younger brother wants to get into the competitive scene as well. My only issue here is I have no idea how to teach him, as I'm almost entirely self-taught.

Here's what I've done:

• He plays Captain Falcon, so I've played a lot of dittos with him, hoping he'll pick up on some of the things I do and start to do them himself.
• Every time he does something out of habit (come down with a Falcon Kick to land or something like that), I'll punish him for it and tell him that doing that every time is easy to punish.
• I down throw -> footstool him, see how he gets up, and if he gets really repetitive, I punish and tell him not to pick the same option every time. For instance, he almost always rolls towards me when I do that, so I just grab and do it again and see what he does.
• I do similar things to the last two, but with other matchups. I do things that'll force him to pick an option. Like with Villager, I fire a rocket and see how he reacts to it. He always jumps over it rather than shielding or spotdodging, and I punish him for it.

He's made significant progress in the past couple of days (we've only been at this that long). Here's what he's gotten better at:

• Whenever he knocks me down and I tech or roll away, he's typically able to react and punish it with a raptor boost, grab, or something else. This is probably the most impressive thing he's learned to do so far.
• He isn't as bad about coming down with Falcon Kicks anymore, though he still does it from time to time.
• He utilizes his character's moveset overall more effectively, rather than sticking to just a few moves.

Listed below are the things he could improve at:

• Mixing up his ledge getup options
• Going for down throw combos. So far, he only throws me off the stage in order to get stage control.
• He doesn't use very many aerials
• He's impatient. If I'm keeping it neutral, he's just run in with something unsafe and get punished.
• He doesn't use defensive options, almost ever. He'll occasionally roll.

So far you have done a significant job considering it has shown improvement. It really depends, although one thing I like to do when teaching certain people is how they can improve their combos. For example if they don't know that you can down throw to up air with [insert character here] and you noticed that they're not doing it then you can tell him about it. Now as for what to improve with and what advice I can give. Mixing up ledge get up options is probably going to be the easiest for you to do usually some people just naturally randomize their options, but in a competitive smash environment it is absolutely necessary because there is no way you want to get flame chocked to death or have the opponent keep reading your rolls onto the stage. The best way is just to punish him for every predictable option he does and if you can another great teaching way would be to show examples to other fighting games he may play a lot if he does that is. Another important aspect to know is how well he is versed within video games as a whole. From what it seems like he is definitely aware of picking up on things you do so I would absolutely recommend showing them a video of a top player to really just give a glimpse of other stuff he can pick up on because let's be honest not everyone just picks up on stuff after seeing even the most well versed of players. Everyone fights each other differently and knowing that he tends to play offensive easily means that most of the matches really just have you exploiting options from what I've read here so when he does learn out of habits it can sometimes be discouraging when they do get past after one bad habit then get destroyed in the neutral so it's an absolute rigid process that requires some form of adapting usually in these cases I just handicap myself by picking characters with purposely bad frame data and I usually do this because it often gets tedious or frustrating for the other person to be complaining that when I play as fox they can never land a grab on me or any of that so honestly don't be afraid to do that. You should give them opportunities to learn their grabs, attacks, and all of that then make them work for those grabs combined with knowledge they already have because otherwise they may just grab and have no clue what to do next just like in that case where he just decides to throw you off the stage figuring that it's the option that works.

Now as for playing defensive, the neutral, and aerial wise. These are all important, but are a very gradual learning process that you don't just learn in one sitting. Being defensive can mean an array of things including projectiles, keeping them at a distance, or just baiting punishes. The neutral is also very important and is a combination of knowing how to play defensive and may require you to use aerials. You can still play the neutral without knowing your aerials, but most likely you're going to need to learn them whether you like it or not. The neutral is definitely very spacing orientated in smash 4 but not as spacing orientated as let's say Street Fighter 4, but spacing orientated as in being the most dependent on spacing in smash history. There are lots of ways to play the neutral and likely just by reading what you have said it wouldn't be that difficult to assume that it doesn't stay that way for long although I'm sure like many people the neutral comes in full effect when you're at high percent and any attack can kill, this is where people have to be careful with how they position themselves and where mindgames and all that come into effect so everyone has some experience with the neutral to some degree, but it's very natural to be impatient. When I started playing Smash 4 I was impatient, but now that I have played more and more I find sometimes just being defensive is better and more fun sometimes, it really depends. So far it seems like you have a good idea of where to go, but this is what I can say based on the information provided.

Overall I'm glad that it seems that people are taking an interest into the smash community, and the Smash Bros series undoubtedly has all the resources for people to become better and self teach themselves if they so desire, but trying to introduce people is a much more different process that instead may just require people who have an understanding of the smash community like yourself and then improving upon how you teach with other resources. I hope I helped somewhat, although you don't have to follow any of my words thoroughly, just look at what I am saying and it will be up to you to infer and decide how to use anything I've said to make decisions yourself after all you are the one making decisions.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Plenty of times I will hear from people that I need "patient play"
Basically I need better judgment when deciding when to go in and when to stay back.
But.... how the hell do I know when to approach/punish and when not to?

If I hang back more, I'll be told by people that I was too defensive and not taking advantage of opportunities when they present themselves.

I don't know how the hell to practice this.

 

[ligersandtigons]

is it okay to post videos of my gameplay itt? i posted some on the falco boards but that was a week ago and still no critique

 

[Dagon97]

Plenty of times I will hear from people that I need "patient play"
Basically I need better judgment when deciding when to go in and when to stay back.
But.... how the hell do I know when to approach/punish and when not to?

If I hang back more, I'll be told by people that I was too defensive and not taking advantage of opportunities when they present themselves.

I don't know how the hell to practice this.

Play against another player and space yourself. When people are saying you were too defensive you were probably a long way away. You need a better understanding of space which you can practice by playing more.

 

[Horuseus]

Hello, I've been playing smash casually since melee but I want to get into competitive play now!!! I'm not very good at the moment (actually I'm not good at all) but I'm willing to put in the work. If anyone wants to become my teacher message me please.
Thank you

 

[KaaaaasKop]

@Duck Smash and everyone else who helped me:

I did it! Today I was battling against a friend, and by attempting to read him and slowing things down, I managed to predict what he would do next a lot of the time! Needless to say I won every match but 1-2. :D

I never noticed how many times he spams dash attacks, rolls like crazy and never mixes up his game. He never even adapted to what I did!

I can't believe I smashed like he did not too long ago...

It was a weird experience when my eyes finally opened hahaha.

Of course, I still have a long way to go! I have trouble edgeguarding for example, so any tips would be nice. I try to use an aerial to send him back, but I never really feel comfortable enough leaving the edge itself. Any tips on how to improve that?

 

[CrazyPerson]

So I entered my 1st tournament... I wasn't in the 1st group of eliminated people which is cause for congratulations in my case!

Anyway... I feel a bit more motivated to train now... but my time is limited. I am never going to be a ZeRo or any of those guys and have no ambition of doing so.

I'd like to spend some time on the universal advanced techniques... (as in the stuff that isn't character specific). What do you guys all think I should train 1st in that department? Any good guides?

 

[Wintropy]

So I entered my 1st tournament... I wasn't in the 1st group of eliminated people which is cause for congratulations in my case!

Anyway... I feel a bit more motivated to train now... but my time is limited. I am never going to be a ZeRo or any of those guys and have no ambition of doing so.

I'd like to spend some time on the universal advanced techniques... (as in the stuff that isn't character specific). What do you guys all think I should train 1st in that department? Any good guides?

Honestly, I think you'd be better off refining your fundamentals first. If you don't have a good foundation to build on, you won't get very far even if your tech skill is unrivaled in your scene. I'd recommend honing your understanding of the neutral, advantage and disadvantage, spacing, character matchups, that kind of thing, before you dedicate yourself to advanced techniques.

Considering you're relatively new to the tournament scene, I'd say it'd be of greater benefit to you both now and in the long run to perfect your fundamentals before you do anything else.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Honestly, I think you'd be better off refining your fundamentals first. If you don't have a good foundation to build on, you won't get very far even if your tech skill is unrivaled in your scene. I'd recommend honing your understanding of the neutral, advantage and disadvantage, spacing, character matchups, that kind of thing, before you dedicate yourself to advanced techniques.

Considering you're relatively new to the tournament scene, I'd say it'd be of greater benefit to you both now and in the long run to perfect your fundamentals before you do anything else.

Very good points... I shall think about it.


How do I do this during the times I don't have sparring partners?

 

[Wintropy]

Very good points... I shall think about it.


How do I do this during the times I don't have sparring partners?

I'd say your best bet is to just figure out what aspects of your playstyle you need to refine (footsies, resetting to neutral, shielding / spotdodging / rolling) and then practice it until you feel confident you can apply it in a real match. Use For Glory as a training ground for techniques if you need to, or better yet, get somebody on Smashboards to play with you on wifi. It isn't the best option, since online play has its own idiosyncrasies that mean it isn't a perfect representation of tournament play, but it's better than nothing.

I can safely say from personal experience, don't bother practicing with the CPU. Use them as punching bags if you need to practice combos or tech, but don't expect to hone your fundamentals with them. They're a very poor imitation of a real opponent, since they have inhuman reaction times, tend to have very predictable habits, don't adjust to your playstyle and don't DI effectively.