FullMetal and Smash Studios proudly present: Tipped Off 9 - December 14th, 2013 - Atlanta, GA

[Juggleguy]

Bump for finalized schedule. Project Melee 3.0 will be the version used. Also this may just be because I'm a scrub- but I can't figure out how to make the tournament listed for the 14th and 15th, joot.
I guess a homie just can't get a sticky or anything... =(

I edited the thread so that the ending time is 10pm on Sunday, like it says in the post. Hope that's alright.

Also, sticky'd. Good luck with the event, FullMetal!

 

[WizKick]

hey Anomic, I Pm'd you about something, hopefully you see it.

 

[TheKittyloaf]

just registered.

 

[j00t]

surprise i'm not coming

got'em

 

[Anomic_Punk]

I edited the thread so that the ending time is 10pm on Sunday, like it says in the post. Hope that's alright.

Also, sticky'd. Good luck with the event, FullMetal!

Thanks juggleguy, I appreciate it!
Also Wizkick, I just responded to your message. =)

 

[Mike G]

*****ATTENTION*******

THE 100TH PERSON FOR MELEE SINGLES TO REGISTER AT TIPPED OFF 9 WILL RECEIVE A MIKE G MEAL TICKET. THIS MEANS I WILL PERSONALLY TREAT YOU TO A DINNER OF YOUR CHOICE FOR UNDER 20 DOLLARS. SO LET'S ALL GET TO 100 AND MORE ENTRANTS!

 

[PB&J]

Hype!!!!!!

 

[Somasu]

Good luck, GA Smash! **** 'em up!

 

[*Cam*]

I was actually going to tag along with Reflex to this until I saw the door fee. I'd like to see old friends again, but not for $25.

 

[Anomic_Punk]

There -was- in fact a time when you could pre-reg and only have paid 15. lol

 

[WizKick]

Thanks to everyone I met at TO9! my first tourney was a blast! thanks to Reflex for letting me help with the PM Bracket!

 

[*Cam*]

There -was- in fact a time when you could pre-reg and only have paid 15. lol

1. I didn't know about the tournament until this week. I am no longer an avid tournament-goer, hence the "see old friends again." Not a valid complaint in itself, but $25 is ridiculous even for same-day door fees.

2. I heard your tournament went well, so kudos for running a large event smoothly.

3. I doubt anyone else will say this, especially now that the tournament is over, but I have no qualms, especially not after your cheeky "lol." I have hosted many tournaments myself, so I have a pretty good idea of how much it costs to rent out a venue for a couple of days. I'm guessing somewhere in the vicinity of $600-$800 for the Hampton Inn room in the picture. It is in the city, so maybe $1000. Assuming about half to two-thirds of people pre-registered, and factoring in that you had over 100 people at the event, I would guess you pulled in somewhere between $1850 and $2000. Even if my calculations are slightly off, even if everyone pre-registered, I still imagine you took in a lot more money than you paid for the venue. The question becomes, where did the money go? Unless you turned it around and spent it on the community or unless my estimates are way way off, that's an insufferable way to collect money. That is why I find the door fee so distasteful.

 

[Anomic_Punk]

1. I didn't know about the tournament until this week. I am no longer an avid tournament-goer, hence the "see old friends again." Not a valid complaint in itself, but $25 is ridiculous even for same-day door fees.

2. I heard your tournament went well, so kudos for running a large event smoothly.

3. I doubt anyone else will say this, especially now that the tournament is over, but I have no qualms, especially not after your cheeky "lol." I have hosted many tournaments myself, so I have a pretty good idea of how much it costs to rent out a venue for a couple of days. I'm guessing somewhere in the vicinity of $600-$800 for the Hampton Inn room in the picture. It is in the city, so maybe $1000. Assuming about half to two-thirds of people pre-registered, and factoring in that you had over 100 people at the event, I would guess you pulled in somewhere between $1850 and $2000. Even if my calculations are slightly off, even if everyone pre-registered, I still imagine you took in a lot more money than you paid for the venue. The question becomes, where did the money go? Unless you turned it around and spent it on the community or unless my estimates are way way off, that's an insufferable way to collect money. That is why I find the door fee so distasteful.

Well, if you'd like an more specific breakdown I had 131 people in the door, so if we assume that as the minimum (15$) you get 1965$. I also offered a 15$ spectator fee for anyone who showed up and didn't want to enter any events. The venue was 1500$ and some change, so I suppose that means about a 400$ surplus. I've never hosted tournaments for the PURPOSE of making money, but I certainly don't complain if I do.
I can understand your distaste for door fee. Nobody likes to have to pay money simply to be in a room/building. And while what I do with that surplus I don't feel obligated to share publicly, I'll do so that it might set your mind at ease. Its going towards the next Tipped Off, and maybe my gas bill for the month. There you have it!


Brief/sloppy results:
Melee Singles-
1. Dr. PeePee
2. Hungrybox
3. Druggedfox
4. ColBol
5. XIF
5. -Chad-

Melee Doubles-
1. Hungrybox/Plup
2. Dr. PeePee/Druggedfox
3. Nicaboy/SleepyK
4. Uuaa/Pi

Project Melee Singles-
1. Dr. Peepee
2. Reflex
3. Hungrybox
4. Plup

Full results thread to come later!

 

[SleepyK]

we also didn't expect to have 130 people at the door. we didn't expect to have more than 70 people come in, hence the higher door fee.

but any TO eventually makes money off of venue fees <_<
it's a way to help the TO out for their hard work.

ask Larry/Shinblanka how much he makes from Final Round.
tell me he doesn't deserve it through the YEARS of hard work he's put in to make Final Round a great series.

Fullmetal has only pulled money out of his own pocket for tipped off year after year and he works very hard to run a good tournament.

tell me he doesn't deserve to be compensated at least a little for his hard work for our community.

 

[l will find peace]

Compensated a little = $15 door fee = $400 for the tournament, seems fair I guess. Do people who bring setups get discounts on door fees? Doesn't look like it. What about the people who ran the stream and the commentators? Again, doubt that happened.

And there wasnt a $15 door fee. There was a $15 - $25 scaling door fee. No one says that TO's shouldn't make money, its that they turn profit at the expense of other people entering. What if the door fee had been $30, or $35, or $40? At what point does it become ridiculous to you, just as a $25 door fee for a hot hotel room is ridiculous for someone else?

There is definitely a point for each individual, and the argument is NOT about "TO's do or don't deserve to be paid for their hard work."

If you had almost double the number of entrants as you had expected to have, then that is the definition of a poorly planned tournament.

And saying that a TO is going to put it towards "the next tournament." It's going toward the down payment for the next venue. Seed money for a higher personal profit. Again, nothing wrong with making money off tournaments, but it isn't accurate to pretend to be sanctimonious about it. If you were actually putting the money towards the next tipped off event, then

I don't even know anything about this tournament (other than the crowd was so bad that hbox flipped them off during grand finals.... are you serious?) or about anyone at the tournament. But the things that you say paint an incredibly wrong picture of what happened at this tournament, and arguing straight past people who disagree with you just makes you seem stubborn.


edit:

I can understand your distaste for door fee. Nobody likes to have to pay money simply to be in a room/building

lol for irony

 

[*Cam*]

we also didn't expect to have 130 people at the door. we didn't expect to have more than 70 people come in, hence the higher door fee.

but any TO eventually makes money off of venue fees <_<
it's a way to help the TO out for their hard work.

ask Larry/Shinblanka how much he makes from Final Round.
tell me he doesn't deserve it through the YEARS of hard work he's put in to make Final Round a great series.

Fullmetal has only pulled money out of his own pocket for tipped off year after year and he works very hard to run a good tournament.

tell me he doesn't deserve to be compensated at least a little for his hard work for our community.

Yes, it seems clear that you guys didn't expect so many people. I accept that the surplus was a miscalculation, but I would have responded differently once I realized the door fee was more expensive than it needed to be.

I never made money off of venue fees. I'm quite sure that applies to most of the AL TOs. If there was extra money left over, we allocated it to another tournament in the state to help pay for an expensive venue, invested in equipment for the community like capture cards and sd cards, or we refunded people whatever money was left over.

I don't think TOs deserve a salary, no. TOs work hard and deserve the respect of everyone in the community. I think they deserve special consideration when they need rides to other tournaments or when they need a place to stay. However, I don't think it's implied that the work of a TO demands payment. Organizers should serve as community leaders, not as hired employees like a catering service. It's a privilege to help the community grow. Yes, I realize that TOs almost always have to pull money from their own pocket. I estimate that I pulled $500 from my pocket over the years to host tournaments, and that comes with the territory. It's reasonable to want to pay back money that the TO pulled out of pocket, but I consider taking $600 from the community during one event to be unconscionable.

Atomic Punk, though you attempted to be transparent with your machinations for the money, I still find it rather vague. Therefore, let me urge you to spend it to benefit the community in some way. Perhaps you could invest in streaming equipment, in CRTs, in food for the next event, or to mitigate the venue fee for the next Tipped Off.

 

[_Keno_]

The only complaint I have was that the door fee was too much for the venue size. It was way too crowded, causing a lot of bodyheat and some boy odors. I understand that other large tournaments charge comparable door fees, but they also have venues that match the fee.

That said, the heat wasn't unbearable and the smell only took a few minutes to get used to and forget about. I enjoyed this tournament immensely (probably more than any tourny I've ever been to, so it was well worth it for me), but I know a few people who didn't have a lot of fun.

 

[Anomic_Punk]

Compensated a little = $15 door fee = $400 for the tournament, seems fair I guess. Do people who bring setups get discounts on door fees? Doesn't look like it. What about the people who ran the stream and the commentators? Again, doubt that happened.

And there wasnt a $15 door fee. There was a $15 - $25 scaling door fee. No one says that TO's shouldn't make money, its that they turn profit at the expense of other people entering. What if the door fee had been $30, or $35, or $40? At what point does it become ridiculous to you, just as a $25 door fee for a hot hotel room is ridiculous for someone else?

There is definitely a point for each individual, and the argument is NOT about "TO's do or don't deserve to be paid for their hard work."

If you had almost double the number of entrants as you had expected to have, then that is the definition of a poorly planned tournament.

And saying that a TO is going to put it towards "the next tournament." It's going toward the down payment for the next venue. Seed money for a higher personal profit. Again, nothing wrong with making money off tournaments, but it isn't accurate to pretend to be sanctimonious about it. If you were actually putting the money towards the next tipped off event, then

I don't even know anything about this tournament (other than the crowd was so bad that hbox flipped them off during grand finals.... are you serious?) or about anyone at the tournament. But the things that you say paint an incredibly wrong picture of what happened at this tournament, and arguing straight past people who disagree with you just makes you seem stubborn.


edit:


lol for irony

I don't see that there's any argument to be had here at all-
Nor do I feel the need to justify my reasoning for having had a scaling door fee. But I don't remember HBox flipping the crowd off during grands- I was right next to the setup, though perhaps I missed it. I'm a little curious about what things SleepyK or I have said that "paint an incredibly wrong picture of what happened at this tournament", simply because I'm always in pursuit of self improvement and improving my tournament series. If you have legit complaints or constructive criticism I'm all ears.

Tipped Off was about 80 people the past two years, and I didn't see the overwhelming support that I received this year coming in the slightest. So I planned for what I expected- about 80-90 tops. Next year, I plan to go for a bigger venue, but I'll only be envisioning about 110-120.

 

[_Keno_]

@ Cam. I dont see with problems with a TO (and those who greatly helped out) of a MAJOR tournament bring home a little bit of the extra money, should it be there. Such tournaments risk LOSING money if people decide to not show up. TO's also put a LOT of hard work into tournaments this size. Fullmetal was pretty busy for a majority of the tournament, which isn't as true for smaller tournaments like in AL.

 

[The Flow]

The venue was $1500. But that was not the only fee. We paid $200 for the Internet. We spent $200 to upgrade stream equipment. And if your asking about mic quality, yes it was subpar but to upgrade would be another $400 or so, making this tournament have a $35 door fee at least. We spent at least $100, probably more, on buying supplies such as power strips and extension cords. And for pre registration, all the money was sent thru PayPal. Paypal takes a small cut out of every transaction. Not only that, but compare this venue fee to other regional/national Melee tournaments. We had a scaling venue fee from $15-$25. KoC had a $25 venue fee with pre reg only, Big house was pre reg only and I believe in the $25-30 range, and RoM was at the door reg only with $20. Our venue fee is pretty much in line with all of the other big Melee tournaments. It is unfortunate that you found the venue fee too high to attend this year but comparing it to other tournaments of this caliber we were in line with out venue fee.

 

[*Cam*]

I think you guys should consider finding another venue because you are getting seriously ripped off for the room you are getting. The stream equipment and cords are a good investment--a payment you will luckily not have to make again, so I'm glad to hear you guys did invest.

 

[The Flow]

The only complaint I have was that the door fee was too much for the venue size. It was way too crowded, causing a lot of bodyheat and some boy odors. I understand that other large tournaments charge comparable door fees, but they also have venues that match the fee.

That said, the heat wasn't unbearable and the smell only took a few minutes to get used to and forget about. I enjoyed this tournament immensely (probably more than any tourny I've ever been to, so it was well worth it for me), but I know a few people who didn't have a lot of fun.

I understand your complaints with the venue size. We chose this one despite the high cost and small room due to the prime location it had. Near MARTA made it easy for GA players and people taking a bus to GA to attend this tournament. I am glad you did enjoy the tournament though But for the next Tipped Off we will make sure the room is larger than this room and alleviate the few problems you had.

 

[Juggleguy]

I doubt anyone else will say this, especially now that the tournament is over, but I have no qualms, especially not after your cheeky "lol." I have hosted many tournaments myself, so I have a pretty good idea of how much it costs to rent out a venue for a couple of days. I'm guessing somewhere in the vicinity of $600-$800 for the Hampton Inn room in the picture. It is in the city, so maybe $1000. Assuming about half to two-thirds of people pre-registered, and factoring in that you had over 100 people at the event, I would guess you pulled in somewhere between $1850 and $2000. Even if my calculations are slightly off, even if everyone pre-registered, I still imagine you took in a lot more money than you paid for the venue. The question becomes, where did the money go? Unless you turned it around and spent it on the community or unless my estimates are way way off, that's an insufferable way to collect money. That is why I find the door fee so distasteful.

Pretty much every part of this post is dumb.

Your assumptions about how much a venue costs is ridiculous. Hotel room rentals fluctuate wildly based on location and quality of venue, and you should know that if you've hosted "many tournaments" yourself. Taking on hosting duties for an event of this magnitude requires a ton of risk, and it's not your place to question the finances of it considering what the turnout was initially projected to be (70 according to SleepyK).

Also, it doesn't matter how much profit a TO makes for hosting a large tournament like this. The expectations are crystal clear, you pay the venue fee and entry fee. Don't like it, don't go. The suggestion that the TO is somehow obligated to plan for a zero surplus, or that the TO is somehow obligated to give back surplus to attendees, is stupid. FullMetal can charge as much as he wants, and deserves every bit of extra venue fee money in the event of extra turnout.

 

[*Cam*]

Pretty much every part of this post is dumb.

Your assumptions about how much a venue costs is ridiculous. Hotel room rentals fluctuate wildly based on location and quality of venue, and you should know that if you've hosted "many tournaments" yourself. Taking on hosting duties for an event of this magnitude requires a ton of risk, and it's not your place to question the finances of it considering what the turnout was initially projected to be (70 according to SleepyK).

I freely admit that I underestimated the cost of the venue, and I also admit that the venue price in conjunction with the projected turnout makes the venue fee make more sense. However, while venue costs do fluctuate based on quality and location (and I know that, thanks), I still hold that $1500 is a ripoff for the size of the room they got. Again, I suggest finding a different venue for the next tournament. I have helped host tournaments in the Atlanta area and attended several here as well. I have never seen it necessary to charge such a large venue fee to cover the room. Venues do exist around Atlanta that aren't so extraordinarily steep.

Also, it doesn't matter how much profit a TO makes for hosting a large tournament like this. The expectations are crystal clear, you pay the venue fee and entry fee. Don't like it, don't go. The suggestion that the TO is somehow obligated to plan for a zero surplus, or that the TO is somehow obligated to give back surplus to attendees, is stupid. FullMetal can charge as much as he wants, and deserves every bit of extra venue fee money in the event of extra turnout.

To be clear, I didn't go.

You are confusing "can" and "should." Can FullMetal charge whatever he wants for a venue fee? Yes. He could charge $100 if he wanted. Should he charge such a high price? I don't think so. Again, he is not obligated to do anything, but I believe it's in the best interests of the Smash community that TOs don't keep venue prices high if it's unnecessary to pay for the room. If TOs incur expenses in hosting the tournament that they want to get reimbursed for, then that's reasonable, but I don't agree that TOs deserve whatever surplus money comes from a venue fee. Enough people have trouble affording tournaments as it is for TOs to be profiting off of them.

 

[Player-1]

Pretty much every part of this post is dumb.

Your assumptions about how much a venue costs is ridiculous. Hotel room rentals fluctuate wildly based on location and quality of venue, and you should know that if you've hosted "many tournaments" yourself. Taking on hosting duties for an event of this magnitude requires a ton of risk, and it's not your place to question the finances of it considering what the turnout was initially projected to be (70 according to SleepyK).

Also, it doesn't matter how much profit a TO makes for hosting a large tournament like this. The expectations are crystal clear, you pay the venue fee and entry fee. Don't like it, don't go. The suggestion that the TO is somehow obligated to plan for a zero surplus, or that the TO is somehow obligated to give back surplus to attendees, is stupid. FullMetal can charge as much as he wants, and deserves every bit of extra venue fee money in the event of extra turnout.

Pretty much every part of this post is dumb.

Cam is only offering constructive criticism, there's no need to call his post "dumb" when he is only trying to make future tournaments better.

 

[Todd Bonney]

Pretty much every part of your post is dumb.

"Calling other posts dumb is bad. Your post is dumb."

Herr derr. step your logic up.

When did the Internet get filled with a bunch of mamby pamby nancyboys? There's this whole trend where negativity of any kind is frowned upon; only friendship and likes and upvotes are allowed. It's baloney. In my day, if you say something dumb, you were called out on that and publicly humiliated. Your momma doesn't log on here boys, this is reality.

 

[Player-1]

Herr derr. Try understanding the content of one's post before posting yourself please.