Fox True Combo Kill Confirm

[Talk]

Just recently I found a true combo that kills early while labing with Fox. Honestly, I don't know if I'm posting in the right place or whether or not I'm following all the rules concerning posting. Although I do really want to share what I found with other Fox mains. If what I found has already been found and documented then my bad, I'll delete this post.

I've tested the combo on Shiek and on ZSS only.

ZSS: 72%-74% kills off the top with 4 hit true combo. 75%-79% kills off the top with 3 hit true combo.

Shiek: 71%-75% kills off the top with 4 hit true combo. 76%-81% kills off the top with 3 hit true combo.

Before I explain those number I need to preface with: I haven't tested the combo's consistency with the opponent DIing or with any other characters. Also, the percents that I've found do true combo and definitely kill if done perfectly, according to Sm4sh's practice mode. So if there is any dispute as to whether or not the practice mode counter can actually be considered reliable then by all means, teach me why it isn't reliable. Lastly, the combo is really strict and actually doesn't true combo unless close to frame perfect.

The combo is falling UAir into a following UAir immediately afterwards. For a lot of Fox mains this won't be surprising because UAir usually follows from most combos (DTilt, UTilt, DThrow, UAir, etc.) What is surprising to me is that at specific percents Fox's UAir combo'd into another UAir actually kills extremely early. Watching professional matches usually shows that Fox doesn't have kill confirms until extremely close to 100% or past it for some moves, his usual kill confirms being USmash, BAir, and UAir. With the true combo I found Fox can kill much earlier starting in the early 70%.

Fox's UAir has two hits, the tail and the leg. From what I understand (and please correct me if I'm wrong I would hate to start flinging around incorrect information) the leg is what actually provides the immense knockback, the tail provides very minor knockback and little to no kill potential. When I say 4 hit true combo, I mean that the Fox has to hit both the tail and the leg in both the falling UAir and the second UAir to get the kill. The 3 hit combo is a bit different though, Fox will not kill if he misses the falling UAir's tail but hits both the tail and leg of the following UAir. Fox must hit both the tail and the leg on the falling UAir, although he only needs to hit the leg to get the kill for the 3 hit combo percentages. From my experience, inside the 3 hit true combo range, it's actually impossible to get a 4 hit true combo. At those percentages the knockback is just slightly too high and it makes it out of reach to hit both leg and tail on the follow up. Vice versa, Fox won't kill if he only manages 3 hits in the low percent ranges written above.

I'd like to warn that I don't believe this should be used "randomly" in neutral. It's very risky because the window for hitting the falling UAir, not only that but it is the farthest thing from being safe on shield and will end up being punished heavily if wiffed. I'd love to see this used as a punish for a missed move or grab. That would make my day.

Something funny I found while testing this, it's actually easier to confirm the true combo and kill on Shiek than it is on ZSS. I'm thinking this is because she weighs more but I'm not entirely sure.

Finally, I really appreciate criticism, questions, and feedback. If anyone wants more specifics on the percentages I have more info, I just didn't want to bore anyone. Thank you!

 

[Saviorr]

Yeah Larry Lurr combos Uair into Uair a lot.
There's actually an easier way to combo Uair into Uair. If the opponent is in the air Fox can short hop Uair into a full hop Uair. When Fox does a short hop Uair he lands without lag so it's a reliable true combo.

And actually on battlefield Fox can use Uair and land on the platforms without lagging, so there's a lot of ways to combo Uair into Uair on stages with platforms.

The combo you're talking about seems good but kind of hard to pull off. Since you're landing with Uair you have a lot of landing lag so it's harder to time a followup attack. Also landing with Uair is unsafe and hard to time correctly.

 

[Talk]

Yeah Larry Lurr combos Uair into Uair a lot.
There's actually an easier way to combo Uair into Uair. If the opponent is in the air Fox can short hop Uair into a full hop Uair. When Fox does a short hop Uair he lands without lag so it's a reliable true combo.

And actually on battlefield Fox can use Uair and land on the platforms without lagging, so there's a lot of ways to combo Uair into Uair on stages with platforms.

The combo you're talking about seems good but kind of hard to pull off. Since you're landing with Uair you have a lot of landing lag so it's harder to time a followup attack. Also landing with Uair is unsafe and hard to time correctly.

Thanks for the reply Saviorr! I've actually been working on a setup that confirms the combo I've been talking about! The sequence is D-Throw > Spike with Fast Fall First hit of FAir > Downwards Pointed FTilt (this acts as Jab Reset/Forced Get Up) > Falling UAir as they get up > Second UAir.

 

[arncakes]

Fox has crazy confirms on battlefield and Dreamland because of auto cancel FH uairs. The platforms make it ridiculously good.

Try FH uair onto a platform to double jump uair on jigglypuff. It's a combo and kills her extremely early (before 55%)

Also, on battlefield, you can autocancel a sh-double jump-uair on the top platform. I haven't tested much but you can get some crazy early confirms on falcon off of a utilt uair string using the top platform. Situational, but it is really helpful to get an early kill once in a while

 

[luke_atyeo]

Thanks for the reply Saviorr! I've actually been working on a setup that confirms the combo I've been talking about! The sequence is D-Throw > Spike with Fast Fall First hit of FAir > Downwards Pointed FTilt (this acts as Jab Reset/Forced Get Up) > Falling UAir as they get up > Second UAir.

getting an fair off the dthrow on good opponents or opponents that know the fox matchup pretty much never happens, finding ways to just land the fair on them when they are in the air or off a utilt is usually a better way to look for it.
Also your setup is nice when it works, but the ftilt jab reset/forced getup stop working above a certain percent (I think its 37%?) so it wont setup on them at a percent where the uairs can kill sadly.

 

[Talk]

getting an fair off the dthrow on good opponents or opponents that know the fox matchup pretty much never happens, finding ways to just land the fair on them when they are in the air or off a utilt is usually a better way to look for it.
Also your setup is nice when it works, but the ftilt jab reset/forced getup stop working above a certain percent (I think its 37%?) so it wont setup on them at a percent where the uairs can kill sadly.

I was thinking this too! What I'm playing around with in my head rn is possibly conditioning an opponent to go for grabs. Meaning sandbag so they can get a few grabs off then once they get into the 70% range, jump and try to combo it. I'm curious to see if this will actually work although I'm having doubts. Exciting all the same.

P.S. Super happy you commented on my post I was looking forward to your feedback! You show up on a lot of other posts and know a lot about Fox.

 

[luke_atyeo]

maybe, but in my experience fox is too easily combo'd and too easily killed to let your opponent have free hits or grabs on you to try condition them for something, plus that kind of conditioning only works on people who are thinking in a certain way, how do you sandbag in such a way that you make them grab? what if they dont grab? what if they grab you but dont think twice about it and dont grab you again? Why sandbag in the first place, wouldn't it be better to focus on playing good the whole game?

I feel like you'd be far better off developing the skill of reading and keeping track of what your opponent likes to do so that you can get a much wider range of opportunity's to land punishes and kill moves.
For instance if you jump over an opponent and bair their shield and autocancel and they get out of being in that shield pressure by rolling away, keep note of that, do it again a little bit later, if they roll again you've now found a habit, next time you can punish the expected roll with a running usmash, that kinda thing is far better than trying arbitrary conditioning on somebody.

 

[Nubber]

Pick battlefield or yoshi island. Ledge canceled uairs combo into more uairs. No need to condition. On different stages work on pp into up tilt. It is much more reliable and safer set up for your uair kill confirms.