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Fox - Roy Match-Up Discussion

EnGarde

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
654
3DS FC
4914-3671-9440

Score|:4feroy:
Overall|?
Neutral|?
Roy at Advantage|?
Roy at Disadvantage|?
Roy Edge/Ledge guarding|?
Roy on Recovery|?
Far Away|?
Mid Range|?
Close Combat|?

Preferable Stage Choices:

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Stages to Avoid:

-

Notable Posts:
 

EnGarde

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
654
3DS FC
4914-3671-9440
General Posting Guidelines
  • Quality Posts: Post relavant, detailed responses when possible. Avoid posting simple matchup ratios/scores. Providing data or tournament replays to support your post is always appreciated.
  • Civil Discussion: A discussion has more value when conducted in a civil manner than one with personal attacks. Please stay respectful of other posters.
  • Full Potential: Always assume that both characters are being played to their full potential. Don't base your position on sub standard play.
Analysis Guidelines
  • The Overall Matchup Score: Which character has the advantage over the other, and by how much. See below for definitions.
  • How The Matchup Should Be Optimally Played: How to fight the opponent more efficiently and deal with them. General do's and don'ts of the matchup.
  • Relavant Data: Frame data and tournament replays, among other things.
  • Stage Choice: Which stages should be chosen against the opponent, and which stages should be avoided. Also, how the stage elements factor in to the matchup.
Gameplay states to consider in your analysis
  • Neutral - Neither character have any significant positional advantages
  • Roy at an Advantage - How does Roy establish an advantageous postion, and how does he optimize keeping his opponent at a disadvantage?
  • Roy at a Disadvantage - How does Roy minimize damage while at a disadvantage (i.e. optimal DI while getting combo'd / juggled), and what tools can he use to escape?
  • Roy Edge/Ledge guarding - What tools does the opponent have while recovering, and how does Roy convert edge guards into stocks?
  • Roy on Recovery - What edge/ledge guarding tools does the opponent have, and how does Roy avoid them while recovering?
  • Roy far away from the opponent - What tools does the opponent have when Roy is far away from them, and how does Roy optimally close the distance? Is this a neutral position, or disadvantageous to Roy?
  • Roy at mid range away from the opponent - What tools does Roy and the opponent have when Roy is mid range away from them, and what can Roy do to convert into an advantageous position?
  • Roy in close combat - What close combat tools does Roy and the opponent have? Is this a more advantageous position for Roy or the opponent, and what should Roy do to space optimally to convert into an advantageous position?
Matchup Scoring

+4 = decisive advantage for Roy
+3 = large advantage for Roy
+2 = medium advantage for Roy
+1 = small advantage for Roy
±0 = even or insignificant (dis)advantages for Roy
-1 = small disadvantage for Roy
-2 = medium disadvantage for Roy
-3 = large disadvantage for Roy
-4 = decisive disadvantage for Roy
 
Last edited:

CaptainHaus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
15
Location
Oregon
NNID
MedicHaus
Neutral: Roy outspaces Fox with moves like SHFF nair, dtilt, jab, and ftilt, but Fox is also very mobile with his great dash and perfect pivot. Fox can maneuver around Roy's pokes fairly well, weaving in and out of his optimal range, but there isn't much he can do until Roy makes a mistake, since as a fastfaller and lightweight, Fox pays dearly for his own mistakes. Overall, Roy wants to carefully approach Fox, threatening him with his pokes and pushing him to the ledge, where Fox can no longer run away and is at a greater risk of dying off the side. +1

Roy far away from the opponent: Fox does have his laser to poke from far away, but Roy is fast enough to easily close the distance while Fox is firing, making laser unsafe. 0

Roy at mid range away from the opponent: This is Roy's optimal range for spacing. Fox's only option at this range is ftilt, which is still outspaced by dtilt and nair. However, Fox can also punish some moves on whiff, such as ftilt, at this range, so Roy must still play carefully. +1

Roy in close combat: This is where Fox can apply pressure to Roy. Fox has incredibly fast normals at this range, such as frame 2 jab, frame 3 utilt, and frame 4 nair, while Roy's fastest normals are jab and uair, both at frame 5. Roy can dish out a lot of pain at this range, and his jab is still a strong tool, but Fox is still at advantage here. -1

Roy edgeguarding: Roy has very solid edgeguarding tools, but Fox has an incredible recovery, being able to come back from almost anywhere offstage. Fire Fox and illusion are both punishable, especially an illusion onto the stage, but because he can mixup between the two of them, it's important for Roy to try and read Fox's recovery and punish accordingly. On the bright side, because fair and bair are very strong, a proper edgeguard will most likely result in a dead Fox. 0/+1?

Roy on recovery: One of the hardest parts of the matchup, for sure. Roy's recovery is not the best, and Fox is very good at gimping with moves like nair, bair, and even shine. It's very important for Roy to save his double jump and keep it from getting stolen, which is unfortunately much easier said than done. Blazer does have super armor, allowing it to power through attacks and potentially stage spike Fox, which will, at worst, leave Roy at advantage if Fox techs. Blazer also does have some flexibility in the angle you can recover from, allowing you to sometimes save your double jump, but this is situational. -1

Roy at an advantage: Fox is a lightweight fastfaller, which makes him very comboable and susceptible to early kills, but he also has jab and nair to try and poke out of combos. Shine also boosts Fox a bit into the air when used out of hitstun, potentially making juggles harder. Fox is unlikely to airdodge out of dthrow due to the threat of an fsmash read, but this leaves him susceptible to followups that otherwise would not be viable, such as fair at mid to high percents. +1

Roy at a disadvantage: Roy is also a fastfaller, which makes him very easy for Fox to combo as well. Dthrow > fair works for a long time and has a lot of dangerous followups, and Roy has a hard time getting out of utilt strings. DI down at 0-20% allows Roy to avoid fh fair, which prevents Fox from following up with dj uair. However, Fox can still connect sh fair, which can lead to a mixup where he either fastfalls and causes Roy to hit the ground, leading to a combo on missed tech and a techchase otherwise, or performs the full fair and gets guaranteed damage. At higher percents you cannot avoid the fh fair with DI down, but you can DI away during the fair to avoid the dj uair, though Fox can follow up with dj fair instead, albeit for less damage. (I'm still not sure if there are better DI options for Fox's combos, since I haven't had much time to test things out. If anybody knows better options, that would be great.) -1
 

Top Boss

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
344
NNID
PizzaMonkey24
3DS FC
2449-5103-4580
Fox main here:
Facing Roy actually feels like the Little Mac matchup to me, meaning Fox will need good reaction time and positioning to win. Fox will most likely lose if he does not know the matchup.
Neutral:Fox has lasers to shoot every once in a while, but Roy can make it so Fox can only get 2 or 3 lasers out before being punished. Fox doesn't really need to approach, but it would be better for him to make a slow and steady approach so he can pressure Roy+not get cornered. Fox seems to have more stage control at the start of the match, but you have to be smart with it.
Fox's worst positions in this matchup are offstage, cornered, and just outside of forward tilt's range. They all speak for themselves, since Roy has good edgeguards, strong spacing tools, and high KO power on his quicker moves.
There are more things I could note here, but I think the matchup is either even or slightly in Fox's favor.
 

Dan Ugore

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
2
Roy far away from the opponent: Fox does have his laser to poke from far away, but Roy is fast enough to easily close the distance while Fox is firing, making laser unsafe. 0

Roy on recovery:
One of the hardest parts of the matchup, for sure. Roy's recovery is not the best, and Fox is very good at gimping with moves like nair, bair, and even shine. It's very important for Roy to save his double jump and keep it from getting stolen, which is unfortunately much easier said than done. Blazer does have super armor, allowing it to power through attacks and potentially stage spike Fox, which will, at worst, leave Roy at advantage if Fox techs. Blazer also does have some flexibility in the angle you can recover from, allowing you to sometimes save your double jump, but this is situational. -1
Solid points. I agree with most of them. I'd give Fox the advantage at a distance because Roy can close the distance to make lasers less safe and avoid a ton of laser damage but Roy isn't getting much of a punish, if one at all, from far away. Alternatively if Fox avoids the punish with shield or spot dodge, Roy can get up smash'd at high percents and combo'd below that. I'd put a +1 in that area.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe Roy has super armor on aerial Blazer. It doesn't show any on Kurogane and I have never experienced it in the air.
 

M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
10,678
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
@•Col• Since you and I play this mu a ton. D Dan Ugore Correct. Only grounded blazer does. And you can abuse it extremely well vs pretty much all of Fox's approaches. I can try to dive into it more later, but this has felt like an even mu to me since Roy was released.
 

Zephil

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
945
Location
Panama, Panama
Both have a lot of things in common. Both are hit&run-type of chars with excellent punish games.

Both can gimp the other but I think Roy has it a bit easier.

Fox may force Roy to approach because of ground laser (RIP Awesome Brawl's SHTL) but because of Roy's speed the Fox needs to be very careful with the amounts of shots fired or he will be punished.

Fastfall makes both easy combo food for the other and I think it benefits more Fox because makes easier his kill-confirms.

In neutral Roy should win if spaced correctly and not being too predictable.

At the end I think the match its one of the most even in the entire roster as none of the two chars has a redeeming advantage.

The player's reading skills should be the biggest factor to decide the match.

50-50
 
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