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Fox help

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infernovia

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
675
So I don't know if you guys have ever played me. I am pretty mediocre, I don't have anything really interesting or creative tricks that I do with my char. But its fairly solid and I know most of the spacing well.

Anyway, I have a pretty ok Fox. I know most of the basics like z cancels, di, shorthop. Not here for that.

What I am interested in is help with three matchups. Samus, Jiggly, and Luigi.

Most people consider these matchups super Fox advantage. I don't see how. Can anyone help me with these matchups? My fox lost to kabal's dair, bair, mine samus (horrendously). I can beat jiggly but I don't see how to completely crush her. Its the same for luigi.

Somethings to note: I rarely get jab -> usmash. I can't really juggle with jab. My fox isn't an impressive shiner. And I can rarely do shuair.

So anything to help me? Videos are cool too.
 
DMoogle

DMoogle

A$
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
2,366
Location
Northern VA, USA
Daedatheus said:
I don't have time to write a detailed response post, but this one should be fairly obvious. The things you listed in this line are all technical things.

JUST PRACTICE THEM.
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Fireblaster said:
You lost to kabal because his samus is better than your fox. Tiers don't dictate autowins.
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+1 to both of these.

Also, the better your DI, the better you'll do against Jiggly. Obviously that's true for everyone, but IMO opponents' DI affects Jiggly's game more than any other character.
 
I

infernovia

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
675
Well obviously they are better than me. That is not the point, or even what I am asking. What I am asking is how I should fight a good samus. Kabal has played for a long time and is a really smart player, thats for granted. What I want to know is why exactly is this a bad matchup for samus.

I mean sure, I try to get fluent in all of my combos, and I know there is a huge ceiling for me to improve on still. Thats for sure. But I didn't ask for that as they are generic advice that I already tell myself.

Should I try to kill by usmash or should I go for edgeguards? At what percentage should I stop dairing? When is it appropriate to utilt? At what percentage is it better to use bair, at what situation is it the most helpful? That sort of things, things that change matchups.

I play a lot of luigis online. Still, I can't really tell exactly what makes this match horrendous for them. So I just wanted a little bit of point to the right direction.

Also, the better your DI, the better you'll do against Jiggly.
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I don't fall for basic dair stuff. Its mostly the aerial spacing. I know is a lot more complicated to actually tell by matchup experience. Unless you are talking about edge guards and the more creative combos that work at certain percentage as well (uair-> rest etc).
 
Blue Yoshi

Blue Yoshi

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
4,410
Location
Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
Best way to learn is to practice and play people. Practice lets you learn what you can do with Fox, while playing people at first lets you learn what you can do against each specific character. The more you play against a character, the more experience you get in that matchup, and the better you do (just like in Pokemon... except you don't level up).

If you don't know the puff matchup, you will likely lose to a good puff (possibly destroyed). I've played many good foxes that don't know the matchup and just get caught in rest combos. Puff can start a combo with much more than Dair, so avoiding that does not mean you've avoided everything. As for what to do against puff... well, I don't know how to play Fox well (probably one of my worst characters lol), but watch videos, and try things. If something works, do it again.

The better you are, the less you rely on percentages for when to use attacks. You'll know more or less what works when, and can transfer between playstyles in the middle of a match.
 
ballin4life

ballin4life

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
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5,534
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disproving determinism
T

T1g3rbombz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
284
ballin4life said:
You mean like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkfmDCThMjg&feature=channel_page where you are fox and you get 3 stocked by a jiggly?

gg no re imbahax etc.


But seriously just watch vids and play a lot. Practice all that tech skill stuff.

In those matchups you're mostly taking advantage of fox's superior speed and lasers, it's not like some special combo allows fox to own or anything.
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i beat you didnt i? Id fuking **** majority of the Worlds jiggs gg no re k thx bai
 
I

infernovia

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
675
btw guys, I do play this game a lot, but just came to ask because I felt like I didn't understand some matchups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB6v8rUBcpc
I am one level worse than that guy. He has good combos, technique, and is generally pretty quick but messes up once in a while z cancelling. He also does the same stuff I do most of the time (except I don't fair often). I think the samus is a little bit weaker than Kabal's also (as he tries to grab instead of up b).

Interesting that he used uair to break out of the dair. That and bair is one of the most frustrating moves to get in on. I think the fox player also knows the matchup pretty well as he seems to approach when samus is facing him.

If you don't know the puff matchup, you will likely lose to a good puff (possibly destroyed). I've played many good foxes that don't know the matchup and just get caught in rest combos. Puff can start a combo with much more than Dair,
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Yeah, I pretty much get ***** by like everything. The edgeguarding especially.

Looking at tigerbombz videos. Pretty awesome.
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Yeah...that Fox was pretty bad, judging from only like, the first 20 seconds. Terrible lasering ~_~

The main thing I feel that kills this matchup for the floaters is that their approach is ridiculously slow, making lasers pretty imbahax. Since they're floaty, they die to UpSmash / UpAir really easily, both of which are relatively easy to combo off in mid percent from Fair / Bair.

Fair / Bair chains work on all 3 of them, you should try it out :lick:

Specific things ... umm ...

Jiggs - Upsmash kills at hilariously low percents, not to mention that she puffs up like a giant target when she jumps...SHL o_O
And, have you ever shined a Jigglypuff? She flies like, halfway across Dreamland when you shine her...making shine gimps so easy. Soooooo easy. Not to mention Jiggs doesn't even have rising pound this game. Sooooooo easy.

Luigi - Uhh...horizontal movement speed of a snail. *Snore*

Samus - ...Can't...combo...? Like Luigi with without the Up-B :bee:

Really, the main thing for these matchups is...in an even match, how do floaties approach you? If you're good about spacing your Fairs / Bairs and lasering ... if you're not, then...well. Practice.

:lick:
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Compared to Melee, Jiggly's rising pound doesn't do jack. It in no way helps with vertical recoveries, only with horizontal ones :lick:

*Incoherent post johns*
Fox >>>>> Samus and Luigi :bee: that was what I was getting at ^_^
 
kabal

kabal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
77
Location
Las Vegas
The matchup is bad for samus because a good fox can really overwhelm samus with his speed/combos. Also, being able to kill samus at 90% with up smash doesn't help. Samus can still win sometimes but it's extremely tough.

If I remember right your biggest problem was that you just weren't fast enough.
 
I

infernovia

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
675
Shorthop L-canceled aerials: master them
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lol, no I can do them alright. Its the internet lag.

Anyway, thanks guys. Anybody have a decent video of a fox vs. samus?
 
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