Silent Wolf
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word .We really need a new guide, or info dump. The same questions keep being asked like 1-2 times per week
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word .We really need a new guide, or info dump. The same questions keep being asked like 1-2 times per week
looks like I have been summoned. But I gotta take care of some stuff, then work lolI'd like to ask a very specific question that hasn't really been touched on before, I don't think.
(Primarily aimed at unknown522/kirbykaze/otto, but everyone else please chime in)
I want to get better at punishing Sheik. I know a lot of the punish game vs Sheik has to do with not just true combos, but also situations where she doesn't have **** she can do when she's falling from above cuz she has ****ty aerial mobility. Stuff like using usmash to trade with her falling nair then getting a fatter combo, or fsmashing by the ledge when she tries to weave offstage (or to trade with her DJ fair back - see SFAT vs M2K from APEX 2013 for an example)
But this also applies to, like, situations where you uair her and you can't really continue the combo but you have a huge advantage as she's falling down. Do you guys have any tips on covering all of Sheik's options and pushing this advantage as far as possible?
Edit: For what it's worth I also want to refresh my memory on the punish tree vs Sheik off uthrow, even though that's not the main point of this post. Unknown, does this sound about right?
Uthrow at 0%, no DI: Utilt, or SH uair (or usmash to trade with falling nair if you read dat)
Uthrow at 0%, side DI: running SH nair -> utilt -> stuff. (Can you do running SH uair here? Is it good?)
Uthrow at low-mid %, no DI: SH uair? FJ uair?
Uthrow at low-mid %, side DI: running FJ bair (weak hit) into combo, or running FJ uair
Uthrow at high %: uair except in rare situations where bair might be better
You mean SH nair right? Even up to 30-40%, nair will work?0-40% on DI away, n-air. From 0-20% (I think it was), you can link u-tilt. Or if they just survival DI. At mid percents, you can get a d-tilt after the n-air sometimes.
Did you mean FJ nair/FJ bair?0-50% on DI behind, n-air/b-air. It's pretty hard to hit the n-air.
I definitely have been practicing all those things and some other stuff since then, general uncomfortability in the matchup slowed down my reactions too...ps I start to move smoother later in the set, but still make dumb choices (which i need more advice on). thanks though noviWhat is the best way to punish Sheik's ftilt? How should I approach when Sheik is ftilting & wavedashing back while ftilting?
E: Hi Wzrd, I can't really comment on the Samus matchup but some general pointers
Practice dashing after shffling an aerial, e.g. shffl nair and dash immediately when you land. There were instances were you acted quite slow after throwing out an aerial, although I could be due to alcohol lol
Another thing, practice applying wavedash down to your spacing as to stop, I didn't see you use much of that and sometimes I got punished for not stopping from the dash. Trust me, using wavedash down will improve your spacing.
Last thing, delay your aerials, especially nair. Practice shffling with throwing out the nair late
yeaaah I noticed it's easier to get around (dsmash), but due to the knockback angle it feels ****tier. yeah I cringed at some of those nair jabs LOL, believe me. thanks for the clear *that sucks* message.CC, I late nair dat.
Samus's dsmash sucks (aka isn't as fast as Peach's - although super deep nairs can work against even Peach) and deep nair/bair are actually pretty good for baiting out bad dsmashes from most Samuses.
Don't nair jab lol (ever)
Btw you missed a lot of utilt punishes. If you can get good at hit confirming nairs (i.e. confirm if opponent is grounded or in air) then keep in mind that utilt (turnaround sometimes required) gives you fat damage after nair provided opponent doesn't CC.
I actually don't really like drilling Samus in a lot of situations cuz she can slip out with even minimal DI. Well, if you're vigilant about this sort of thing you could shield the incoming dsmash I guess. Same concept as doing a late nair.
Shine usmash gives you no benefit in terms of frames. Adding that suffix just makes no sense.Doesn't shine usmash guarantee a good hitframe? Also can they sdi the shine to get out of the usmash in time?
lolz no worries I used to have a really bad habit of nair jabbing too much too.yeaaah I noticed it's easier to get around (dsmash), but due to the knockback angle it feels ****tier. yeah I cringed at some of those nair jabs LOL, believe me. thanks for the clear *that sucks* message.
have been working on nair utilt*with turnaround too against cpus, but was unsure if they worked, so Ill def incorporate those next set...though if he cc's will the utilt knock him down?. idk how got mike is at the sdi vs dair, so I guess when I throw it out I'll just have to play it by ear.
right on, hence it being a dope followup from nair.lolz no worries I used to have a really bad habit of nair jabbing too much too.
I think utilt is generally best reserved for situations where you know they're not gonna be on the ground. I think at like HIGHER %'s it can knock down though. (but I'm talking like... 70s+)
Yeah I like running shine as a mix up sometimes.Shine usmash gives you no benefit in terms of frames. Adding that suffix just makes no sense.
Yeah your opponent can sdi it, but if you're just running up at random and doing it there's no way for them to know when (some Foxes do this alot)
I tried to spark some decent discussion about the fox vs sheik matchup and people opted to talk about shine usmash, shine bair, and "hitframes" instead.
Save us, Kirbykaze. You're our only hope.
Almost spat out my drink.Orr.. Title: #UnknownFreed
Shine. I like to drop through/run off plats, poke the top of their head with a shine, and then DJ to GTFO and just react to their next move. I find it really useful vs. "turtle" styles.@anyone else, is there anything safe on CC besides drill? late nair still seems sketchy,unless maybe I shield->punish oos etc, does thatwork? i noticed I was able to get away with nairshine sometimes/nair jab(but get punished cuz jab is stupid if shes still CCing)-latenair->fast nair....errr
still looking for tips, preferably from people with lots of samus exp.
*sigh* toph is right. i'm lurking here cuz i'm having PP teach me fox cuz ganon is a terrible character. i'm learning a lot of interesting things. i'll try to share some useful ones eventually, although sparingly.
my first question to you guys, is how often do you guys try to jc a shine from your initial dash (like, is that something you do?). there are some spacings in which i'd really like to running shine, but you can't crouch out of your initial dash to shine, and it's been really annoying because fox's initial dash is so long (not a problem, as it gives him ridiculous power, but frustrating to deal with sometimes). If a jc shine isn't what you go for, then do you just pick a different option, or just look to dash dance in a way that sets up the shine once you can actually do it?
I do this all the time. I use Y -> B. Learn to multishine and grounded shine OoS and it will make this a lot easier.toph, when you did it, did u just use the control stick, or a button (x/y)? the only way i can currently imagine doing a shine out of my initial dash is to basically just dash and do an aerial shine and waveland on a platform, which clearly isn't always possible, or even remotely desired.
I use the Y button and slide.toph, when you did it, did u just use the control stick, or a button (x/y)? the only way i can currently imagine doing a shine out of my initial dash is to basically just dash and do an aerial shine and waveland on a platform, which clearly isn't always possible, or even remotely desired.