Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[KirbyKaze]

Because the drill hits multiple times the most important thing with dair pressure is to make your dair come out ASAP after you cancel the shine. Everything else kind of falls into place if you get the immediate dair.

 

[Strong Badam]

It does, in fact. Its just a lot less noticeable than in brawl. Also, i believe it only works with A moves and not B moves (or at least things like shine, marth's side b, cape, ect)

This is just wrong lol
Only special moves can change your momentum. It only works with Kirby & Jigglypuff because their mid-air jump animations have momentum decay programmed into them; canceling them with an aerial brings you back to normal momentum. It does not in any way apply to the other 24 characters.

 

[JPOBS]

Strong bad, what about when you're marth and you do a jump ledgetech and you would normally go too far/die unless you do a bair after the tech?

 

[Druggedfox]

Falco vs. Fox Neutral Game​

Don't get hit​

This is perhaps the most important thing I'll say about the entire matchup: Do not get hit. I'm not saying you should camp falco (though you should a lot of the time), necessarily, I'm simply saying that not getting hit is something that you should *actively* be striving for against falco moreso than other characters.

The thing is, lots of characters don't particularly have issues landing solid hits they want on fox. Marth can take advantage of a ridiculous dash dance game, sheik has long limbs in addition to really good ways to catch fox's retreats (like dash attack/dash attack canceled grab), and if either of them hit you while you're above them... you're kinda ****ed.

Falco, on the other hand, has severe issues landing a solid hit on fox. He doesn't have the speed to keep up with fox, he outranges fox but not enough that the range is what's landing him the hits (like in sheik/marth's case), and as long as you're not getting hard read or sitting *directly* above a falco he doesn't have any way to convert a random hit into full combo.

It ends up being less about avoiding getting hit, and more about avoiding any solid hits that could be converted to combo. I feel like falco has this issue against fox more than the majority of other characters. If fox doesn't want to, he really doesn't have to get hit by anything that leads to combo, and this is where I see the vast majority of fox players failing.

I don't think people realize how *frustrating* it can be for a falco player to continuously land stray hits and not be able to convert any of them. I'll say it one more time: don't get hit.

Alright, with that out of the way I'll move onto more detailed/specific things.

*** Probably will expand on this

Pressuring, Landing a Hit, and Converting​

Another important concept to keep in mind is what happens when you're at various (relatively close) spacings. Falco is slow. Because of this, he's sort of forced to take one of two approaches (or he can mix them, though most falco players lean towards one) to fighting fox in particular. 1) He can move, a lot. 2) He can throw out hitboxes.

If he doesn't keep moving, fox can ride his *** like no other, and he won't be able to do much. Lots of falco players don't really have a movement based game, and in that case they're forced to throw out lots of bairs and uptilts (other things too, but mostly these two moves). Try to figure out how the falco reacts to what you're doing. Once you reach certain spacings, falco doesn't have the time to escape unless you give him the time to do so; this is prime time to bait moves...any moves. Focus on figuring out where these spacings are and how to abuse them; it'll help your vs. falco game a lot. Once you get close enough and make sure *not* to run into whatever falco throws out, you get a free grab/nair/upsmash/drill/whatever. I feel like a lot of people forget that once fox lands a solid hit on falco, it can really really really hurt, it's not just the other way around.

On the other hand, if falco is moving around very well (I think this is ideal) you might find difficulty really landing a solid hit. That's fine, don't worry about it. I only say this because fox has a far easier time converting random hits into pressure/tech chases/combos. If you land any stray hit --> shine, suddenly you're tech chasing falco and he's in an awful position. This is where you have to learn to pressure; a fox who only knows how to camp isn't ever going to beat a falco worth his salt. Once fox *really* gets in on falco, there's not much he can do besides hit the panic button and pray. This isn't free though, it really requires high awareness on the fox player's part not to get caught by a stray shine (or shine OoS) and completely lose momentum, or by a random uptilt/fsmash.

As I mentioned, ideally falco will be moving around a lot and selectively throwing out hitboxes. That said, break down the situation (as mentioned above, where you're actually close enough to be threatening falco) with basic risk/reward concepts. Once you're at an even mildly threatening spacing (more like, close enough to move into threatning spacing), don't be too hasty to go in; feel your opponent out. In other words, respect your opponent (initially, anyway). A falco who is playing respectfully will probably not be too quick to toss out a move (an unsafe move, anyway) and will probably try to keep moving. At this point you want to get close enough to falco to put him in danger, without endangering yourself at all.

Now, if you don't run in, and just try to stay in a threatning position... what do you lose? Pretty much nothing. If falco throws out a hitbox, you **** him for it (note that you should be *actively* looking for and baiting any *punishable* whiffed moves (aka don't get baited) not just running around hoping you eventually react to one in time).

On the other hand, what if he doesn't throw out a hitbox? Don't let him get away with that for free. If he didn't throw out anything at all, he either moved away, or did nothing. If he did nothing, keep moving but stay at a range where you're still threatening. If he moved away, take stage control without over extending. Did he move back? You have room to push forward. Did he jump away? He's above you now; you're a threat simply by being below him (you can easily get out of the way of any aerials from a platform, or simply hit him if he decides to stay up there).

Back to the concept of respect and disrespect though; solely respecting your opponent is hardly the ideal way to approach it. You simply start by doing this. Fox in particular can get away with more respect than disrespect in this situation because it doesn't really matter what falco does, you'll get something out of it. The issue arises though that you could be getting more out of it than simply taking stage control when he moves away. That said, try to figure out when you can push your advantage and go in hard on falco. Once you get in on falco, ride his ***. Get a hit that leads directly to combo if at all possible; if not, get him on the ground (with a shine, or maybe if he CCs a nair at too high a %) and try to pressure from there.

This is when player vs. player comes in, and you have to try to either observe your opponent's choices so that you can predict, or actively manipulate them into doing what you want. An easy example of this would be running forward then wavedashing in place, right outside of range of anything falco can do. Fox is too fast for falco to make a decision purely off spacing, so it's a ridiculously good baiting technique. On the other hand, if you don't actually look like you're about to commit to anything, falco is way more likely to retreat; being aware of this allows you to more quickly and effectively take advantage of his retreat.

Something important to note here is that if you choose not to commit to pressuring (and instead wait for falco to do something) this is *his* chance to take the aggressive. If you're not aware of this, and either give falco too much room, or grow complacent, you'll get destroyed. Your upsmash either goes through everything or trades with it; if you're dash dancing and you see him come at you (in a fashion that commits) just upsmash it. Be ready to WD back in case he decides to approach. Try to full jump over stuff and come down with an aerial. The fear here is that you get too scared and frequently give up space to falco, or become predictable with your defensive maneuvers. How many times have you seen a fox sit there and do nothing but full jump repeatedly in hopes that falco will come in stupidly? All the things I mentioned are invaluable tools, but you have to be aware of what the cost of doing each of those is: namely, giving up an advantage. Sometimes you do need to forfeit advantages, but the more you can minimize that, the better.

Hmm, that's all I really feel like talking about for now. This was sort of a selfish post, since I've been thinking about some of this for a while now (especially with Tipped Off 7 coming up). That said, I'll probably add more to this post later, if only as a way to get some more thoughts down on "paper". I only mention this because I may have focused too much on things that I personally value or am currently thinking about, so I'm not entirely sure how holistic an analysis this is; I say this mostly because I'm taking a good deal of this matchup for granted by not explaining the specifics of how to execute certain concepts, strategies, and tactics. I may or may not add those in later, still deciding.

I hope this helps though.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Strong bad, what about when you're marth and you do a jump ledgetech and you would normally go too far/die unless you do a bair after the tech?

thats due to the walljump acceleration being canceled when the walljump animation is canceled. The sooner you cancel, the less momentum you have.

This is just wrong lol
Only special moves can change your momentum. It only works with Kirby & Jigglypuff because their mid-air jump animations have momentum decay programmed into them; canceling them with an aerial brings you back to normal momentum. It does not in any way apply to the other 24 characters.

Are you sure? I'm not talking about the sheik fair increasing distance thing, i am talking about after being hit, using an aerial reduces your momentum just like it does in brawl. I am quite sure I remember reading a magus post on it and while its minuscule i do it often and swear it has helped me marginally.

 

[Redd]

have you been practicing lately? there's a lot of technical errors (edit: nvm, just game 1. Just a slow start I guess).

For the most part, since you're facing sheik you need to maximize your damage. You don't do many combos in this set. Just simple drill->shine stuff, and grab/u-tilt/u-air. Y'know what I mean?

Gotta make those hits do at least 35% instead of 10% each time.

Yeah, I haven't been getting to practice cause everyone around here is always busy... I'll keep it up.

I just don't know where the mental block comes from. I need to focus on standing my ground when I'm in advantageous situations and not derp-a-fairing into grabs.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

awesome **** drugged, i'll be reading that more when i'm off work.

 

[Bing]

awesome **** drugged, i'll be reading that more when i'm off work.

Yeah same, that looks like a hell of a good, important read...

 

[FoxLisk]

Yeah, I haven't been getting to practice cause everyone around here is always busy... I'll keep it up.

I just don't know where the mental block comes from. I need to focus on standing my ground when I'm in advantageous situations and not derp-a-fairing into grabs.

yo play me im in town for a few days

 

[Dr Peepee]

druggedfox your post was great but I think it would be soooo much easier to understand if you provided examples with your points.

I know you wrote it for yourself but if you decide to go back to it then that'd be a good idea, even for your own benefit honestly.

 

[mers]

This is probably known, but when the platforms are low on FoD you can running shine-usmash people on them from underneath, and it connects properly. Looks awesome, but obviously not really useful other than for flash.

 

[Sinji]

Falco vs. Fox Neutral Game​

Don't get hit​

This is perhaps the most important thing I'll say about the entire matchup: Do not get hit. I'm not saying you should camp falco (though you should a lot of the time), necessarily, I'm simply saying that not getting hit is something that you should *actively* be striving for against falco moreso than other characters.

The thing is, lots of characters don't particularly have issues landing solid hits they want on fox. Marth can take advantage of a ridiculous dash dance game, sheik has long limbs in addition to really good ways to catch fox's retreats (like dash attack/dash attack canceled grab), and if either of them hit you while you're above them... you're kinda ****ed.

Falco, on the other hand, has severe issues landing a solid hit on fox. He doesn't have the speed to keep up with fox, he outranges fox but not enough that the range is what's landing him the hits (like in sheik/marth's case), and as long as you're not getting hard read or sitting *directly* above a falco he doesn't have any way to convert a random hit into full combo.

It ends up being less about avoiding getting hit, and more about avoiding any solid hits that could be converted to combo. I feel like falco has this issue against fox more than the majority of other characters. If fox doesn't want to, he really doesn't have to get hit by anything that leads to combo, and this is where I see the vast majority of fox players failing.

I don't think people realize how *frustrating* it can be for a falco player to continuously land stray hits and not be able to convert any of them. I'll say it one more time: don't get hit.

Alright, with that out of the way I'll move onto more detailed/specific things.

*** Probably will expand on this

Pressuring, Landing a Hit, and Converting​

Another important concept to keep in mind is what happens when you're at various (relatively close) spacings. Falco is slow. Because of this, he's sort of forced to take one of two approaches (or he can mix them, though most falco players lean towards one) to fighting fox in particular. 1) He can move, a lot. 2) He can throw out hitboxes.

If he doesn't keep moving, fox can ride his *** like no other, and he won't be able to do much. Lots of falco players don't really have a movement based game, and in that case they're forced to throw out lots of bairs and uptilts (other things too, but mostly these two moves). Try to figure out how the falco reacts to what you're doing. Once you reach certain spacings, falco doesn't have the time to escape unless you give him the time to do so; this is prime time to bait moves...any moves. Focus on figuring out where these spacings are and how to abuse them; it'll help your vs. falco game a lot. Once you get close enough and make sure *not* to run into whatever falco throws out, you get a free grab/nair/upsmash/drill/whatever. I feel like a lot of people forget that once fox lands a solid hit on falco, it can really really really hurt, it's not just the other way around.

On the other hand, if falco is moving around very well (I think this is ideal) you might find difficulty really landing a solid hit. That's fine, don't worry about it. I only say this because fox has a far easier time converting random hits into pressure/tech chases/combos. If you land any stray hit --> shine, suddenly you're tech chasing falco and he's in an awful position. This is where you have to learn to pressure; a fox who only knows how to camp isn't ever going to beat a falco worth his salt. Once fox *really* gets in on falco, there's not much he can do besides hit the panic button and pray. This isn't free though, it really requires high awareness on the fox player's part not to get caught by a stray shine (or shine OoS) and completely lose momentum, or by a random uptilt/fsmash.

As I mentioned, ideally falco will be moving around a lot and selectively throwing out hitboxes. That said, break down the situation (as mentioned above, where you're actually close enough to be threatening falco) with basic risk/reward concepts. Once you're at an even mildly threatening spacing (more like, close enough to move into threatning spacing), don't be too hasty to go in; feel your opponent out. In other words, respect your opponent (initially, anyway). A falco who is playing respectfully will probably not be too quick to toss out a move (an unsafe move, anyway) and will probably try to keep moving. At this point you want to get close enough to falco to put him in danger, without endangering yourself at all.

Now, if you don't run in, and just try to stay in a threatning position... what do you lose? Pretty much nothing. If falco throws out a hitbox, you **** him for it (note that you should be *actively* looking for and baiting any *punishable* whiffed moves (aka don't get baited) not just running around hoping you eventually react to one in time).

On the other hand, what if he doesn't throw out a hitbox? Don't let him get away with that for free. If he didn't throw out anything at all, he either moved away, or did nothing. If he did nothing, keep moving but stay at a range where you're still threatening. If he moved away, take stage control without over extending. Did he move back? You have room to push forward. Did he jump away? He's above you now; you're a threat simply by being below him (you can easily get out of the way of any aerials from a platform, or simply hit him if he decides to stay up there).

Back to the concept of respect and disrespect though; solely respecting your opponent is hardly the ideal way to approach it. You simply start by doing this. Fox in particular can get away with more respect than disrespect in this situation because it doesn't really matter what falco does, you'll get something out of it. The issue arises though that you could be getting more out of it than simply taking stage control when he moves away. That said, try to figure out when you can push your advantage and go in hard on falco. Once you get in on falco, ride his ***. Get a hit that leads directly to combo if at all possible; if not, get him on the ground (with a shine, or maybe if he CCs a nair at too high a %) and try to pressure from there.

This is when player vs. player comes in, and you have to try to either observe your opponent's choices so that you can predict, or actively manipulate them into doing what you want. An easy example of this would be running forward then wavedashing in place, right outside of range of anything falco can do. Fox is too fast for falco to make a decision purely off spacing, so it's a ridiculously good baiting technique. On the other hand, if you don't actually look like you're about to commit to anything, falco is way more likely to retreat; being aware of this allows you to more quickly and effectively take advantage of his retreat.

Something important to note here is that if you choose not to commit to pressuring (and instead wait for falco to do something) this is *his* chance to take the aggressive. If you're not aware of this, and either give falco too much room, or grow complacent, you'll get destroyed. Your upsmash either goes through everything or trades with it; if you're dash dancing and you see him come at you (in a fashion that commits) just upsmash it. Be ready to WD back in case he decides to approach. Try to full jump over stuff and come down with an aerial. The fear here is that you get too scared and frequently give up space to falco, or become predictable with your defensive maneuvers. How many times have you seen a fox sit there and do nothing but full jump repeatedly in hopes that falco will come in stupidly? All the things I mentioned are invaluable tools, but you have to be aware of what the cost of doing each of those is: namely, giving up an advantage. Sometimes you do need to forfeit advantages, but the more you can minimize that, the better.

Hmm, that's all I really feel like talking about for now. This was sort of a selfish post, since I've been thinking about some of this for a while now (especially with Tipped Off 7 coming up). That said, I'll probably add more to this post later, if only as a way to get some more thoughts down on "paper". I only mention this because I may have focused too much on things that I personally value or am currently thinking about, so I'm not entirely sure how holistic an analysis this is; I say this mostly because I'm taking a good deal of this matchup for granted by not explaining the specifics of how to execute certain concepts, strategies, and tactics. I may or may not add those in later, still deciding.

I hope this helps though.

It did help and their is a lot of points I agree with you on.

In other words. We both have the same mindset on the match up and feel confident about it.

 

[Redd]

yo play me im in town for a few days

Hit me up like tonight baby

 

[PGH Carroll]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qf6hV3_zNU

Anyone wanna help me out?

Besides playing extremely fearful the third match, I had some good reads but tended to miss the punishes. I was going to use Falco but Chillin suggested I stay Fox and I was like lolz okay cause I prob am better at it with Fox.

See the problem is your playing silent swag...
And since I'm the fox he plays most because I'm his brother a couple things you can do CC his tilts. I like to CC then down tilt>nair/grab. DONT GET GRABED. His tech chasing is he's biggest weapon. If he can get his grabs then he's very out of his element. Also when he planks the edge just walk over and PC edge hog him. Just a couple things I know he struggles against. Don't sweat it. It's just johny... Lol

 

[Druggedfox]

Thanks to anyone who read it.

PP... I'll definitely consider doing that, I appreciate the thought. I wasn't particularly in the mood to type more (I feel like I've been typing all day -.-) but I think you're right; hopefully I'll go back in soon and update it.

 

[unknown522]

Unsafe vs. which characters/what moves?

if you don't FF your drill, almost any character can grab you when you land(except like zelda, link, samus, yoshi).

Yeah, I haven't been getting to practice cause everyone around here is always busy... I'll keep it up.

I just don't know where the mental block comes from. I need to focus on standing my ground when I'm in advantageous situations and not derp-a-fairing into grabs.

ahh, I hear ya.

You land enough hits. You move around pretty well. But it was mostly the follows that you needed.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Unless the opponent uses shield wizardry, it doesn't make a difference. During SH drills, anyway.

Druggy:

Your post was good and I agree with you on most of it. I think you underestimate how good Falco is at converting first-hits into combos though. Good read, thoroughly enjoyed.

Redd:

You can just steal the edge from Sheik for auto-KOs if they poof like that. You should also use more u-throw > SH nair > up tilt because it's stupidly good against her at low percents out of throw (but takes some timing skill to learn). Throw her off the level and then play edge games with her more than you're currently doing because it applies a lot of pressure to her. You have a lot of options in that position that cover a lot of her options, which is dandy. Screw around with it in friendlies and find a formula that works for you.

Your edge game needs a lot of work. You need to play against her more to get the timing for standing to hog the up+B. You also need to spot when you have to bair, up smash, d-smash, or make a creative combo better. You missed some easy edgeguards doing the wrong move.

As a more general tip, don't shoot so many lasers in one iteration. She's pretty fast. Some of your SHLs became standing lasers, but on a few of them even if you didn't mess up she could have hit you. Be a bit more careful with those.

Also, I hear from the grapevine that you're having a character crisis and don't know who to play. Is Fox just not doing it for you lately? D:

 

[Strong Badam]

Strong bad, what about when you're marth and you do a jump ledgetech and you would normally go too far/die unless you do a bair after the tech?

Walljump IASAs frame 1
You can't influence your horizontal momentum (drift) during walljump, but can during bair.

Are you sure? I'm not talking about the sheik fair increasing distance thing, i am talking about after being hit, using an aerial reduces your momentum just like it does in brawl. I am quite sure I remember reading a magus post on it and while its minuscule i do it often and swear it has helped me marginally.

Find me that post or nope.

 

[Rubyiris]

DruggedFox said everything I already did, only in a more concise format.

If people agree with him, and disagree with me, it's going to prove a lot of my theories about the smash community right.

 

[Silent Wolf]

DruggedFox said everything I already did, only in a more concise format.

If people agree with him, and disagree with me, it's going to prove a lot of my theories about the smash community right.

i dont think druggedfox said falco was free tho lol. id like to see you say that after playing someone like sion

 

[Rubyiris]

i dont think druggedfox said falco was free tho lol. id like to see you say that after playing someone like sion

Sion doesn't impress me at all.

 

[Silent Wolf]

LOL. well then, its obvious you havent played him.

watching =/= playing, especially when youre some noob who cant accurately gauge skill. not that his videos do him any justice anyway =P

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

List of all aerials in the game that can't be autocanceled:

DK's f-air

going thru old magus posts trying to find the one im referring to. This one made me smile ^^

 

[Strong Badam]

I am sooo mad

 

[Rubyiris]

LOL. well then, its obvious you havent played him.

watching =/= playing, especially when youre some noob who cant accurately gauge skill. not that his videos do him any justice anyway =P

>Noob.

You clearly don't know anything about me, then.

 

[unknown522]

ouch. Otto's goin in.

But yeah, not a bad writeup.

 

[Strong Badam]

>Noob.

You clearly don't know anything about me, then.

we know you take posts on the internet too seriously lol

 

[Sinji]

I hope I can play Sion one day.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I am sooo mad

I gave up finding it after reading posts for 30 minutes instead of working on the project i have due tomorrow. I'll just test it on my own and post the results. I'll do it on a break; do you have a good way to test it in mind? I was thinking something like marth on falcon's knee and measuring distance traveled when holding horizontal and doing 1) fair 2) jump 3) nothing

 

[Silent Wolf]

>Noob.

You clearly don't know anything about me, then.

i know that youve "gone 8 months with zero improvement," which indicates that you must not have a grasp on how to truly play effectively. if you do have a good understanding of how to play effectively then it would be hard not to see how to improve in my opinion.

cant say ive watched any of your vids tho.

i also know that youre not impressed with sion, which means ur dumb. it also prob means you dont leave any leeway between any old video and true potential.

edit: we also prob have different definitions of noob, so i wouldnt be too offended

 

[Druggedfox]

KK, I can see what you're saying about converting first hits; when I talk about matchups I tend to emphasize points I think are important by exaggerating a bit too much, probably should fix that.

Yeah, I have no opinion on what the fox/falco matchup is. I've given up on assigning it any value, and I've just concluded that it doesn't ****ing matter and I just need to understand how it works.

lol at the list of aerial's that don't auto cancel... I actually remember that

 

[Rubyiris]

i know that youve "gone 8 months with zero improvement," which indicates that you must not have a grasp on how to truly play effectively. if you do have a good understanding of how to play effectively then it would be hard not to see how to improve in my opinion.

cant say ive watched any of your vids tho.

i also know that youre not impressed with sion, which means ur dumb. it also prob means you dont leave any leeway between any old video and true potential.

edit: we also prob have different definitions of noob, so i wouldnt be too offended

Most of my problems are outside of smash, actually. Nobody to play with, and a ****ty mindset make up pretty much the entire reason why I haven't improved in a long while.

I also have a very good understanding of how to play effectively, but actively ignore it for playing on my own terms. I COULD throw style and abundant technical skill to the wind, but the game gets extremely boring when I do that.

As for Sion, from what I've seen from his videos, I'm not impressed. I'd love to play him, but I doubt I'll get that chance, given my financial situation. I know vids aren't everything, but it's difficult to say otherwise when that's all you have to go on.

 

[JPOBS]

DruggedFox said everything I already did, only in a more concise format.

If people agree with him, and disagree with me, it's going to prove a lot of my theories about the smash community right.

how come you turn every thread into being about you?

 

[mers]

Ignoring Rubyiris cuz whatever.

Sveet/Strong Bad/JPOBS/whoever: Strong bad is definitely right. The walljump animation itself carries the character far away from the stage. However, the animation can be interrupted (IASA) at any point, reducing the effect of the walljump to simple momentum, which can be counteracted by simply holding the control stick toward the wall. That's how Marth's ledgejumptech survival and Falcon/Falco's multiple walljumps work.

 

[Strong Badam]

we also prob have different definitions of noob, so i wouldnt be too offended

Am I a noob?

 

[ruhtraeel]

So does Jman actually have really good tech skill but doesn't use it cause he doensn't need to or does he just play smart without it

Playing in tournament vs Marth, Doc or Falco (the MU's I switch to Fox instead of Falco), I now know how good a Jman style Fox can be, if you just do stuff that gets the hits.

But anything else, DARK/Zant style for the fun

 

[KirbyKaze]

KK, I can see what you're saying about converting first hits; when I talk about matchups I tend to emphasize points I think are important by exaggerating a bit too much, probably should fix that.

Yeah, I have no opinion on what the fox/falco matchup is. I've given up on assigning it any value, and I've just concluded that it doesn't ****ing matter and I just need to understand how it works.

lol at the list of aerial's that don't auto cancel... I actually remember that

One of the most interesting (and effective) things I've ever seen Mango do in the MU (a lot) that other people don't really do (much at all) is jump into Fox with shine when he's using his evasion. It seriously has a stupid stun and provided you can waveland somewhere, it's pretty feasible to get a combo started off it. Sometimes the way Fox is moving prevents him from getting an optimal DI on the shine, which makes it really effective for getting a combo started. Mango has a lot of DI & hitbox tricks like that though.

Rubyiris, your post was very different than DruggedFox's. That said, even if it was the same material, I'm not sure why you're surprised that people were less receptive to your extremely abrasive, belittling approach. Do you know anything about how people think or respond to different kinds of social stimuli? Or is that also an area that you haven't improved in during the past eight months?

 

[Deleted member]

a bunch of garbage.

pretty good post overall. if you're feeling giddy, you can post more about fox pressuring falco with his movement/positioning like marth can as opposed to pressuring with his attacks directly. fox can definitely do both.

frankly i think fox's biggest asset is his ability to switch from the offensive role to the defensive role and back very quickly based on the situation. doing this to slow characters makes it that much more useful.

edit: redd your set vs silent swag kinda blew. you had the same problem doh told me about being on your team, where you do too much flashy **** instead of just killing them. you also don't think your way out of the neutral/bad situations, you just kinda "go for it" and hope it works. if swag edge guarded better you would have lost game 1 too. way too autopilot.

 

[Redd]

See the problem is your playing silent swag...
And since I'm the fox he plays most because I'm his brother a couple things you can do CC his tilts. I like to CC then down tilt>nair/grab. DONT GET GRABED. His tech chasing is he's biggest weapon. If he can get his grabs then he's very out of his element. Also when he planks the edge just walk over and PC edge hog him. Just a couple things I know he struggles against. Don't sweat it. It's just johny... Lol

LOOOL. Internalized, thanks. Damn good Sheiks give me the most trouble.

if you don't FF your drill, almost any character can grab you when you land(except like zelda, link, samus, yoshi).

ahh, I hear ya.

You land enough hits. You move around pretty well. But it was mostly the follows that you needed.

Thanks. Yeah, it was a bad day for anything other than wavelanding.

Unless the opponent uses shield wizardry, it doesn't make a difference. During SH drills, anyway.

Druggy:

Your post was good and I agree with you on most of it. I think you underestimate how good Falco is at converting first-hits into combos though. Good read, thoroughly enjoyed.

Redd:

You can just steal the edge from Sheik for auto-KOs if they poof like that. You should also use more u-throw > SH nair > up tilt because it's stupidly good against her at low percents out of throw (but takes some timing skill to learn). Throw her off the level and then play edge games with her more than you're currently doing because it applies a lot of pressure to her. You have a lot of options in that position that cover a lot of her options, which is dandy. Screw around with it in friendlies and find a formula that works for you.

Your edge game needs a lot of work. You need to play against her more to get the timing for standing to hog the up+B. You also need to spot when you have to bair, up smash, d-smash, or make a creative combo better. You missed some easy edgeguards doing the wrong move.

As a more general tip, don't shoot so many lasers in one iteration. She's pretty fast. Some of your SHLs became standing lasers, but on a few of them even if you didn't mess up she could have hit you. Be a bit more careful with those.

Also, I hear from the grapevine that you're having a character crisis and don't know who to play. Is Fox just not doing it for you lately? D:

Thanks for this. I'm aware of my edge game... I just need to be more proactive because I know the intricacies in and out so it's not like I'm not capable...

And yeah I've never really had a main though. Just mostly used Fox. I recently switched to Falco again. I've mained Marth too.

I get frustrated at the consistancy level I need to play Fox how I like to play him. Hell, I get bored playing any character for a long period of time. I also use specific characters for MUs i.e. Sheik for Marth/Samus.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Find whoever turns your crank. Fox requires upkeep and confidence to play effectively and if your heart's not in it, you'll run into this kind of problem a lot.