Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Vex Kasrani]

Depends on how you determine the ratio. If you compare the metagames of each character to each other, with the metagame being determined by the best player of that character (If ADHD beats Jem, its irrelevent because ADHD is playing Diddy to his current potential while Jem is not playing MK to his potential, while M2K is), you would compare the best MK to the best Diddy, which in this case is M2K and ADHD, NL, etc...So the question stands, when was the last time the best Diddy (or any Diddy for that matter) beat the best MK? Even if you broaden it to top MKs to top Diddys, I would venture a guess that it is still favorably for MK.

Last time ADHD vs M2K happened, I think it went to 5th game but M2K won, but its not MK winning, its M2K being a smarter and better player.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

so THATS it! it just turns out that playing MK makes you a smarter player...

we should ban smart people from playing brawl...

 

[BadAxel97]

so THATS it! it just turns out that playing MK makes you a smarter player...

we should ban smart people from playing brawl...

Uhh...no.
It just so happens that the best MK player is also very smart...
But that's about how it is for the best with any character...
Less intelligent people just don't do as well.
It's a fact of life.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

i suppose youre right, then again, he was smart enough to pick out MK being the best>.>
though i was hoping he'd make marth the top brass instead...or maybe fox(but we all know how that turned out-.-)

 

[ShinoBee]

we should ban smart people from playing brawl...

For the love of God, no!!! Ugh!

Otherwise we're gonna have little manchildren running around. And I don't think ANYONE wants to sponsor those kind of players.

I now have actual hope for the community.

 

[Revanchist]

MK has dominated the game for a long time now. Some very good Snake players have shortened the gap, but then there's a huge gap between Snake and Falco. That gap would be bridges significantly if MK weren't killing off anyone who could threaten Snake, so I'm tired of hearing anti banners say we'd just ban Snake after he takes MK's place. That wouldn't happen, Snake can be counter picked pretty easily.

I'm just getting tired of this thread, but I applaud the intelligent discussion I've seen. Yeah there've been trolls and stubborn idiots on both sides, and people voting anti ban because they want Brawl to die and bring people back to Melee... but we're almost done and this was important.

So...seems that the votes are AGAIN in favor of pro-ban, but still not 2/3 percent. Wasn't it like this the other three times? Isn't this one of the reasons they kept making more polls like this one? I say just go with the ban. If you need 4 different polls to decide whether to ban a character and EACH one is in favor of pro-ban, you should just go through with it.

God forbid you can't just unban him if things go bad.

This. Last sentence especially, but this whole thing sums up my feelings. At least there's a good 9% difference in voting.

What really gets me though is the magical 2/3 requirement which appears to be the only thing stopping us from getting the ban passed. Maybe we need a different poll, what the community thinks we need to get MK banned. I know 2/3 is the traditional number around here but MK is a special case and I've seen proposals from a simple 51% to requiring 75% to ban MK. I'd like to see that re-examined, because 2/3 is extraordinarily hard to reach. And I know a lot of people are saying "yeah, that's the point, makes sure we don't ban what we don't need to ban." But at the same time, if MK were banned the anti banners would never be able to get the magical 66% and I don't want that either. If banning MK turned out to be a mistake I wouldn't want all the anti banners to be fighting this hell of an uphill, maybe even impossible battle.
The 2/3 requirement may not be appropriate for this particular situation and may need to be examined.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

or maybe you guys should just man up and play the game?

mk is fine

 

[BadAxel97]

Depends on how you determine the ratio. If you compare the metagames of each character to each other, with the metagame being determined by the best player of that character (If ADHD beats Jem, its irrelevent because ADHD is playing Diddy to his current potential while Jem is not playing MK to his potential, while M2K is), you would compare the best MK to the best Diddy, which in this case is M2K and ADHD, NL, etc...So the question stands, when was the last time the best Diddy (or any Diddy for that matter) beat the best MK? Even if you broaden it to top MKs to top Diddys, I would venture a guess that it is still favorably for MK.

I understand your point, but in my opinion, the top meta knight SHOULD always beat the top Diddy...because of the tiers.
It just...doesn't seem like a valid argument anymore if you try to throw in the best character's best player...
Like, I think if we were to discuss times with meta knight losing to other characters, then maybe we should leave M2K out of the discussion...just in my opinion.
Just pick a less good (but still good) MK player.
Because if you pick two players with equal skill, then the character lower on the tier (technically speaking), should lose. And ban MK, or no ban MK, that will always ve a fact of the game as long as there are tiers.

...In my opinion, at least.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

ally has the best MK i guess

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Because if you pick two players with equal skill, then the character lower on the tier (technically speaking), should lose.

...In my opinion, at least.

Not really, its more matchup dependent then tier dependent on who wins the matchup. Metaknight vs Diddy is considered practically even(55-45 MK I think?), so the better player should win, not just the random MetaKnight.

 

[BadAxel97]

Not really, its more matchup dependent then tier dependent on who wins the matchup. Metaknight vs Diddy is considered practically even(55-45 MK I think?), so the better player should win, not just the random MetaKnight.

Yes but I was talking in terms of equally skilled players.
Not "the better player"

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Yes but I was talking in terms of equally skilled players.
Not "the better player"

In a matchup of 55-45 which is considered neutral, it can go either way between the MetaKnight or Diddy that are equally skilled.

If we look at a matchup such as Dedede vs Snake, it's generally agreed that Dedede has a decent advantage on snake and if equally skilled the Dedede player should win because Dedede counters snake.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

^correct

its not because hes the highest on the tier list, its because there isint a matchup that isint in his favor,its 55:45 MK or better

 

[ksizl4life]

lol yes still doesnt have 2/3 votes?

Its over

Goooooooo meta knight!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

lol yes still doesnt have 2/3 votes?

Its over

Goooooooo meta knight!

It's funny, the percentage for this poll has slowly been increasing the past week. So at current rates we can see a 66% to be achieved in roughly 195 days if it increases .30% every 5 days lol

 

[Red Arremer]

Over the past 2 days Pro-Ban has seen an increase of roughly 0.5%.

 

[OFY]

Over the past 2 days Pro-Ban has seen an increase of roughly 0.5%.

Which means Metaknight is gunna get banned

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Strong Badam]

over the past 10 days my give a **** meter has been at 0.

 

[OFY]

over the past 10 days my give a **** meter has been at 0.

\ / <---- Care cup is empty

 

[gm jack]

^correct

its not because hes the highest on the tier list, its because there isint a matchup that isint in his favor,its 55:45 MK or better

I know Wario and Snake go even with him. Diddy is even on FD. IC are even on most stages.

 

[Nic64]

MK has dominated the game for a long time now. Some very good Snake players have shortened the gap, but then there's a huge gap between Snake and Falco. That gap would be bridges significantly if MK weren't killing off anyone who could threaten Snake, so I'm tired of hearing anti banners say we'd just ban Snake after he takes MK's place. That wouldn't happen, Snake can be counter picked pretty easily.

Aside from Meta Knight, who counters Snake? I don't approve of the slippery slope argument, it won't happen, but Snake is still in another league from other characters, there won't be much for real counterpicks on him without MK around. Certain character/stage combos like ROB or Falco on japes, but those are usually easy to circumvent via stage banning, and in fact already exist on MK just to a slightly lesser extent. MK definitely has better matchups than Snake overall, but Snake doesn't lose to anyone else, an evenish matchup is not a counterpick...if it were pro ban wouldn't have an argument.

I still think MK is borderline too good, but he's really not the only one...

 

[:mad:]

Snake, arguably Dedede.

 

[Nic64]

The sad thing is that Snake does counter Snake

 

[JUDGE]

^ arguably falco

 

[Attila_]

olimar. no argument here.

 

[JUDGE]

wario is even 50:50

@straked
i'm burning at the speed of light, i wanna make a supersonicman outta you!!!

 

[A New England Winter]

1. I noticed a lot of people are having misconceptions on how the vote works. The community vote doesn't need to be 2/3, the SBR vote has to be 2/3. This vote is used to add extra points to whatever side wins in this vote, to the SBR's vote. Right now, pro ban is winning, so when they vote in the SBR, they'll be adding points to that side. Get it?

2. Snakes worst MUs can be argued as D3, Wario, Pikachu, Olimar, and/or R.O.B. As well, he has a fair amount of even MUs. There is no such thing as a slippery slope.

 

[JUDGE]

1. I noticed a lot of people are having misconceptions on how the vote works. The community vote doesn't need to be 2/3, the SBR vote has to be 2/3. This vote is used to add extra points to whatever side wins in this vote, to the SBR's vote. Right now, pro ban is winning, so when they vote in the SBR, they'll be adding points to that side. Get it?

soooo.......you meeaaan.....right nao....mk would be banned???

i....don't get it really

 

[Zolios]

soooo.......you meeaaan.....right nao....mk would be banned???

i....don't get it really

No, it means that for every 2.5% that the community votes over 50% for pro-ban, it will add an extra vote for pro-ban for the SBR vote.

The SBR vote is simply the sum total of all of the SBR member's votes.

I'm not sure if there's an extra 2.5% for anti-ban, they would get an extra vote though.

 

[A New England Winter]

the losing side (currently anti) doesn't get a point bonus

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Pro-ban gets 1, maybe 2 votes if the SBR is charitable. There are about 100 people in the SBR. Ah, fairness in action.

 

[Leafplayer452]

I dont see anti ban winning the vote anymore =(

 

[Wrath`]

You would think that four community votes saying majority yes to MK banning would at least get us a temporary ban.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I know Wario and Snake go even with him. Diddy is even on FD. IC are even on most stages.

because platforms>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>diddy's banana game.

amirite?

I used to secondary Wario, and to the best of my knowledge it wasn't an even match-up, although it was pretty close (55-45 MK). I honestly have no clue about the Snake vs. MK match-up, and kind of barely know the IC vs. MK match-up, so I can only truly talk about the Diddy vs. MK match-up.

By the logic of, "an MK with banana experience would be the worst nightmare for a Diddy main," again, Dojo (who secondaries Diddy and I'd reckon plays top Diddys like Gnes and Fliphop on a regular basis) lost to ADHD in an MM 2-0 at Genesis.

Also, a community vote that's 55% to 45% winning the decision? That's silly. There's a lot of people who didn't vote, there's quite a bit of people who voted and wanted to change votes after reading the thread, there's a lot of people who voted one way and didn't care at all, there's a lot of people who voted with alt accounts, and there's a LOT of people who voted without being fully informed and saying, "Well I think the game would just be more fun without him," or, "lol sure he's cheap but he's not broken marth can beat him really well lolsss!1"

And temp ban has been proven to do nothing countless times in this thread.

 

[POKE40]

I dont see anti ban winning the vote anymore =(

Don't worry
The SBR still has to vote.

I can't believe today is the final day.


Q: How many Broomers are going vote? Or a better question, is there a specific amount of BRoomers that's going to vote?:/

 

[Strong Badam]

take the number of BRoomers and multiply it by 2, and that's how many.
also, i believe mk shouldn't be banned.

 

[swordgard]

Last time ADHD vs M2K happened, I think it went to 5th game but M2K won, but its not MK winning, its M2K being a smarter and better player.

Pro ban will call the character winning, except if its ally, cause ally is so good at the game we can never be at his level so instead of stepping it up they want to dumb the game down.


Good logic thar amirite?

 

[A New England Winter]

Also, a community vote that's 55% to 45% winning the decision? That's silly. There's a lot of people who didn't vote, there's quite a bit of people who voted and wanted to change votes after reading the thread, there's a lot of people who voted one way and didn't care at all, there's a lot of people who voted with alt accounts, and there's a LOT of people who voted without being fully informed and saying, "Well I think the game would just be more fun without him," or, "lol sure he's cheap but he's not broken marth can beat him really well lolsss!1"

Tough **** for them. They should've thought of that before they voted. All of the information was right in front of them, and they had all the power to find out what they needed to know. Anyone who didn't vote at this point are either indecisive, which means they probably weren't ever going to pick a side, slacked off, in which case they don't deserve the vote, or are inactive, which means they probably don't care that much.

/ragetowardslazyvotersrawrawrawr

Also...it's REALLY not looking good for the anti-ban side...if my math is correct, Pro-ban is going to be getting 108 points...which, again if my math is right, means Pro ban only needs another 30 from SBR votes...

 

[Exceladon City]

Pro ban will call the character winning, except if its ally, cause ally is so good at the game we can never be at his level so instead of stepping it up they want to dumb the game down.


Good logic thar amirite?

I thought you knew?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQB_22rAD1Y

Also, I was lurking the MK boards and they don't have a tournament results thread. Odd much?

 

[jmanxiv]

Idk why there is an MK board, what could they possibly discuss, how to make their character seem less broken.