Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Yuna]

It's called opinion, why should anyone care how illogical you think it is?

Because his opinion shows that he has very bad judgement and superficial insight into Brawl and what constitutes a good argument, thus everything he says will be tainted by his own inherent lack of logic.

Also, obviously the ban chain wouldn't happen, because if every character was seen as broken, then that means every character is equal.

No, the argument is that with X character gone, another character, while not as good as X may step forward as the new broken benchmark, necessitating yet another ban. They're not equal, but there can be many characters who will succeed the previous throne-holder as "teh brokenz" if the previous throne-holder is beheaded.

 

[SnowballBob33]

Why dont we just use haxors to nerf MK's utilt?

 

[Player-1]

2 things about Diddy that's wrong:

1. Diddy beats ROB
2. Diddy destroys air camping mks

and...

Atlantic South Florida
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240230 July 5th
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240070 July 3rd
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239167 June 20th
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236828 June 6th
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233853 May 23rd
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234383 May 16th
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230666 April 18th
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228582 March 28th

 

[GigaBowserXyZ]

it doesn't matter what happens. brawl's doomed anyway.

 

[xDD-Master]

Cant we just love each other <3 ?


MK is the root which makes us hating each other <,<

 

[Palpi]

Anybody who says that a child can pick up MK and take a stock off and experienced player is wrong. I wanted to say you were ********... but that would be mean. Anyway, a person who has never played smash before, picking up MK
will kill themselves. They will drill, or nado of the stage and die. I promise, promise, promise you.

With Snake however, they'll just tilt, (because they don't know what smashes are,) and you will cry, because Snake's tilts are awesome.

Melo and I recently came to the conclusion that at a low level of serious competitive play Snake is easier to use that metaknight.

Omg. You are correct sir.

 

[½NIÇK½FBM]

What the hell is wrong with his utilt..........

 

[SnowballBob33]

Pro-ban= more fun for the whole community
Anti-Ban= stfu scrub, no johns

 

[Yuna]

I know you did your homework Yuna, but almost all of the people who DO bring up Melee and 64 have not done their homework and have improperly tried to compare the situation to a previous one. I want them to stop doing that.

To be honest, I really don't care if MK is banned or not, but the anti-ban's side of the argument on the OP was so weak that it prompted to vote yes since there wasn't a "Don't Care" option.

What the hell does this have to do with the argument at hand?! Who cares if X person has done their homework if your argument is just inherently flawed to begin with?

 

[AvaricePanda]

Lol player-1, all of the Florida tournaments.

no love.

 

[CaliburChamp]

People are being racist against Metaknight. Soon enough, they'll have Metaknight players only allowed to sit in the back of the bus, drink from their own assigned water fountain, and sell us into the slave trade.

Where is Meta Martin Luther KingKnight when you need him?

 

[jbandrew]

Snake
Wario
Diddy
Ice Climbers
Pikachu Anther



If he can take a stock off experienced brawlers, these "experienced brawlers" are HORRIBLE. He won't be able to do this with ANY character. He shouldn't be able to do this to any character. When you're fighting an MK who does really punishable things and doesn't know the basics of competitive gameplay, you aren't going to go, "CRAP I DIED BECAUSE IT'S MK LOLSSSSS"



Compare those results to hobo11 and cot4, two very large tournaments of their time half a year ago.

Consdering that Tyrant wasn't even at APEX, the difference isn't surprising. These are the two biggest recent tournaments. Compare to the two biggest recent tournaments of half a year ago, when people were screaming, "Oh no, Meta Knight!" and you'll find that the "problem" is getting better.

Snake
Wario
Diddy
Ice Climbers
Pikachu Anther

You're not paying attention.. I said name high-mid tiers. 3 of those characters are top tier already.(Snake, Wario, Diddy). Ice Climbers are on their way to being top tier. And yes, the crossout is correct. Pikachu isn't a good charater vs MK, ANTHER is. Because Anther is amazing. Snake is now BEGGINING to go even with MK on NEUTRALS. If you're snake and take MK anywhere else you're at a disadcantage. But try proving me wrong, tell me what top snakes aside from Ally are consistently taking out top MK's, because I can tell you MK's are taking out top Snakes with the exception of Ally who's just too good.You're still losing here. He destroys variety.

If he can take a stock off experienced brawlers, these "experienced brawlers" are HORRIBLE. He won't be able to do this with ANY character. He shouldn't be able to do this to any character. When you're fighting an MK who does really punishable things and doesn't know the basics of competitive gameplay, you aren't going to go, "CRAP I DIED BECAUSE IT'S MK LOLSSSSS"

^ No, stop being ignorant.

Compare those results to hobo11 and cot4, two very large tournaments of their time half a year ago.

Consdering that Tyrant wasn't even at APEX, the difference isn't surprising. These are the two biggest recent tournaments. Compare to the two biggest recent tournaments of half a year ago, when people were screaming, "Oh no, Meta Knight!" and you'll find that the "problem" is getting better.

I have no say in this atm because I don't feel like checking up tournament results from a year ago to try and justify anything.

Listen Avaricepanda, if you're a diddy main and you're so bent on keeping MK, why aren't YOU placing at big tournaments?

 

['V']

Brawl is a super defensive campy *** game

we need mk

^This

I'm more of a spectator now than a player and I can honestly say that Meta Knight actually makes the game more fun to watch. Even Meta Knight dittos are entertaining.

 

[Sky`]

If he's not banned by now, he's not going to be banned. X]

 

[fkacyan]

To be honest, I really don't care if MK is banned or not, but the anti-ban's side of the argument on the OP was so weak that it prompted to vote yes since there wasn't a "Don't Care" option.

You know, a lot of the better anti-ban debaters weren't able to influence the creation of that argument.

 

[tocador]

Anybody who says that a child can pick up MK and take a stock off and experienced player is wrong. I wanted to say you were ********... but that would be mean. Anyway, a person who has never played smash before, picking up MK
will kill themselves. They will drill, or nado of the stage and die. I promise, promise, promise you.

With Snake however, they'll just tilt, (because they don't know what smashes are,) and you will cry, because Snake's tilts are awesome.

If you give them Kirby, they'll have a lot of fun playing.

So f***ing true, specially the kirby part :D.

 

[slowpoketales]

nevermind i was beat to the point xD fast thread is fast

but qft

^ No, stop being ignorant.

you need to take your own advice you aren't listening to anything anyone is saying and just stating the same thing over and over ad nausea

 

[Sovereign]

You don't need to be SBR to realize MK is fair. Ally beats him like every single day he plays him. As long as Ally is alive to beat M2k, how can you ban metaknight. Just get as good as Ally and stop johning

Translation of this quote: "Hate the player, not the game"

 

[Falconv1.0]

So f***ing true, specially the kirby part :D.

MK is more fun than Kirby.

Kirby is bair and grab, MK has a better air game, ground game, and can become a ****ing tornado.

 

[xDD-Master]

candy: a good olimar will only be in a grabbable position like once or twice a match by snake against a good oli, and even then, olimar can still spotdodge/ pivot/ ect. to avoid the grab, ut doesn't change the matchup enough, then being able to consistently keep up with his rolls/ get up attacks isn't exactly easy and 100% reliable

Or just roll to the next edge xD

 

[talkingbeatles]

You know, a lot of the better anti-ban debaters weren't able to influence the creation of that argument.

I thought the anti-ban was a lot better at making an argument. I was all like... "why ban who now?"
Pssshhh. People should read more things.

 

[Zolios]

Also, no one understands my point at all...again. I'm not saying everyone's recovery is as good as metaknight's. I'm just saying that you don't need a good recovery at all in order to recover in this game. Why? Because it is so **** easy to recover. And also for lolimars, DI up so you can land on stage if you're going to get edgeraped. You might get attacked afterwards, but at least you can be on stage to immediately get back in the offense.

A player who is remotely experienced with their character should know how to recover well. The Pro Ban side is for some reason trying to emphasize that every character is guarenteed to lose a stock if knocked off the stage.

Also, I've seen MK edge-gimped more times then I've seen say...wolf, despite his less advantageous recovery.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I know. Yuna is the ONLY anti-banner so far to make a good argument.

 

[Yuna]

Yuna out. I'm off for 4 days for an anime convention.

 

[Sukai]

Because his opinion shows that he has very bad judgement and superficial insight into Brawl and what constitutes a good argument, thus everything he says will be tainted by his own inherent lack of logic.

But how will you know that if you didn't even bother to read the whole thing?

You're saying through premature judgement, that I have bad judgement.

That doesn't hold

Your judgements are not absolute and therefore does not constitute my supposedly lack of inherent and cohesive knowledge of Brawl as "fact".

In your opinion, my opinion is stupid, to put it blunt.
But you came to this conclusion without properly reviewing my opinion.

Paradox.

 

[CaliburChamp]

People are being racist against Metaknight. Soon enough, they'll have Metaknight players only allowed to sit in the back of the bus, drink from their own assigned water fountain, and sell us into the slave trade.

Where is Meta Martin Luther KingKnight when you need him?

 

[AvaricePanda]

Snake
Wario
Diddy
Ice Climbers
Pikachu Anther

You're not paying attention.. I said name high-mid tiers. 3 of those characters are top tier already.(Snake, Wario, Diddy). Ice Climbers are on their way to being top tier. And yes, the crossout is correct. Pikachu isn't a good charater vs MK, ANTHER is. Because Anther is amazing. Snake is now BEGGINING to go even with MK on NEUTRALS. If you're snake and take MK anywhere else you're at a disadcantage. But try proving me wrong, tell me what top snakes aside from Ally are consistently taking out top MK's, because I can tell you MK's are taking out top Snakes with the exception of Ally who's just too good.You're still losing here. He destroys variety.

Notice you keep saying with the exception of Ally.

By saying this, you're acknowledging that there's a player using a character that isn't MK that's good enough to be consistently beating top MKs.

And I believe you said have a chance against MK. If that's the case, add Lucario, Kirby, and ZSS to that mix. If you meant come close to even or have the advantage, then that's just silly to ask that the best character in the game has even or worse match-ups against high-mid tier.

If he can take a stock off experienced brawlers, these "experienced brawlers" are HORRIBLE. He won't be able to do this with ANY character. He shouldn't be able to do this to any character. When you're fighting an MK who does really punishable things and doesn't know the basics of competitive gameplay, you aren't going to go, "CRAP I DIED BECAUSE IT'S MK LOLSSSSS"

^ No, stop being ignorant.

What do you mean stop being ignorant? You honestly think that somebody who's never played this game before can take a stock off of a good competitive player?

Wow. And I'm ignorant?

Listen Avaricepanda, if you're a diddy main and you're so bent on keeping MK, why aren't YOU placing at big tournaments?

Maybe because I have no reasonable way to travel to tournaments?
Maybe I'm just not good?
Maybe my parents deny me permission to travel to any tournaments?
Maybe because debating in this thread should have absolutely no correlation to how good I am?
Maybe because it doesn't matter how good I am to debate?

But oh wait, YOU'RE JBandrew! And I'm a nobody! So it doesn't matter if I have a clear thought out argument and you're using very bad logic, you're jbandrew! People know you! You're a good player! That means you're better!

What was I thinking, me, a nobody, debating against somebody like jbandrew?!?

 

[Falconv1.0]

I know. Yuna is the ONLY anti-banner so far to make a good argument.

Avarice Panda says hai.

Get ***** jbandrew.

 

[jbandrew]

Anybody who says that a child can pick up MK and take a stock off and experienced player is wrong. I wanted to say you were ********... but that would be mean. Anyway, a person who has never played smash before, picking up MK
will kill themselves. They will drill, or nado of the stage and die. I promise, promise, promise you.

Supposing that the person playing has general knowledge of the game, playing as MK things become much easier than their main if theyre not dedicated. My cousin mains fox, I 3 stock him consistently, he has general knowledge of the game, and plays it everyday so no he won't be drill rushing offstage. He picks MK and is able to get one stock off me, he doesn't devote NEARLY as much time to meta as he does to fox. Explain that.

 

[Palpi]

Listen Avaricepanda, if you're a diddy main and you're so bent on keeping MK, why aren't YOU placing at big tournaments?

Jbandrew, learn to quote more. I get really confused reading your posts sometimes

Avarice wants mk because he doesn't deserve to be banned, not because diddy is good against MK, not because it isn't an obstacle in his maybe not so successful tournament experience. You are viewing this selfishly.

Explain what? Metaknight is the best character. Fox is a mediocre characterat best. Fox at low level of play gets punished a lot, you are smart enough to space well or wait to punish fox's failed approach attempt.

 

[Yuna]

But how will you know that if you didn't even bother to read the whole thing?

You're saying through premature judgement, that I have bad judgement.

That doesn't hold

Your judgements are not absolute and therefore does not constitute my supposedly lack of inherent and cohesive knowledge of Brawl as "fact".

In your opinion, my opinion is stupid, to put it blunt.
But you came to this conclusion without properly reviewing my opinion.

Paradox.

You claim that the pro-ban arguments in the OP far trumphs the anti-ban arguments. In order to come to that conclusion, you would have to be largely ignorant on a lot of things. Thus, anything you have to say on the matter will be tainted by said ignorance.

This is my definite last post barring a last-minute post before I leave in 2 1/2 hours.

 

[tocador]

MK is more fun than Kirby.

Kirby is bair and grab, MK has a better air game, ground game, and can become a ****ing tornado.

Nah, kirby can steal your nado, has a f-ing rock, have a anoying taunt + crouch taunt, and hes pink.

Hes wayyyyy more fun to play in the "first-time-playing-the-game".

 

[SnowballBob33]

95% of brawlers have heard of homebrew

75% of brawlers have hacked wiis.

70% have played some modified verison of brawl

22.7% think those versions are rip offs

7% play BBrawl

90% of people who read this post wonder where im going with this

Smash is nothing but a videogame. We play to have fun. Why play if you're not having fun? If you don't like metaknight, don't attend the tournament, do money matches the whole day. Don't force everyone to pay because you aren't having fun.

Brawl+ : fun speed activate

 

[talkingbeatles]

Supposing that the person playing has general knowledge of the game, playing as MK things become much easier than their main if theyre not dedicated. My cousin mains fox, I 3 stock him consistently, he has general knowledge of the game, and plays it everyday so no he won't be drill rushing offstage. He picks MK and is able to get one stock off me, he doesn't devote NEARLY as much time to meta as he does to fox. Explain that.

Sounds like you need to work on your MK match up skills.
How does he not get a stock off you with Fox? Doesn't he know dair>dsmash/usmash/utilt? I'm assuming he's bad.

 

[½NIÇK½FBM]

I agree being a rock is better than being a tornado.

 

[jbandrew]

Notice you keep saying with the exception of Ally.

By saying this, you're acknowledging that there's a player using a character that isn't MK that's good enough to be consistently beating top MKs.



What do you mean stop being ignorant? You honestly think that somebody who's never played this game before can take a stock off of a good competitive player?

Wow. And I'm ignorant?



Maybe because I have no reasonable way to travel to tournaments?
Maybe I'm just not good?
Maybe my parents deny me permission to travel to any tournaments?
Maybe because debating in this thread should have absolutely no correlation to how good I am?
Maybe because it doesn't matter how good I am to debate?

But oh wait, YOU'RE JBandrew! And I'm a nobody! So it doesn't matter if I have a clear thought out argument and you're using very bad logic, you're jbandrew! People know you! You're a good player! That means you're better!

What was I thinking, me, a nobody, debating against somebody like jbandrew?!?

I'm done speaking of this with you. I would continue, but my
head hurts. And seriously saying that you can't argue with me because I'm a known good player IS stupid and ignorant. So stop trying to use that against me, because you're just complementing me at the moment; you're not insulting me nor putting me in my place by saying that you can't argue with me because of my status in the brawl community.

Funny, because if someone like Ally came in here and said something like this, I doubt you'd continue to argue and dabble the way you are at the moment. I'm off to bed. Good night.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Nah, kirby can steal your nado, has a f-ing rock, have a anoying taunt + crouch taunt, and hes pink.

Hes wayyyyy more fun to play in the "first-time-playing-the-game".

Kirby's rock and nado sucks, MK has a cool sword, better mobility, etc etc. Kirby's bad match ups are gay as **** too. =/

 

[Allied]

Sounds like you need to work on your MK match up skills.
How does he not get a stock off you with Fox? Doesn't he know dair>dsmash/usmash/utilt? I'm assuming he's bad.

Its calling powershielding son

learn it to be a top player

 

['V']

You are viewing this selfishly.

Most people are. This thread's name should be changed from "Should Meta Knight be banned?" to "Do you want Meta Knight to be banned?".

 

[talkingbeatles]

Its calling powershielding son

learn it to be a top player

it's called combos in brawl.


learn to find them.