• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Forest of Hope - Olimar Boards Community Guide

DtJ Hilt

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
8,531
Location
Minnow Brook
Hilt's Olimar guide​

7000th Post!

Table of Contents

1. Pikmin type’s attributes
a. Blue​
b. Red​
c. Yellow​
e. White​
f. Purple​
g. Explanation of pikmin evolution differences​
2. Moveset
3. Damage table
4. Pikmin Durability table
5. Advanced Tech
6. Recovering
7. Strategies
8. Character Match-ups
9. Stages
10. FAQ
11. Misconceptions
12. Gameplay Videos
13.Credits


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Pikmin type’s attributes
a.Red
  • Immune to fire: what this means is that if a red pikmin comes in contact with fire it will not dies while all others will.
b.Blue
  • Immune to water: what this means is that if a blue pikmin comes in contact with water it will not die while all others will.
  • Has only slightly less durability than purple
c.Yellow
  • Immune to electricity: what this mean is that if a yellow pikmin comes in contact with electricity it will not die while all others will.
  • When thrown it follows a higher arc.
e.White
  • When thrown it flies faster and farther than others.
  • Has less survivability than all other pikmin.
  • Weight=light
f.Purple
  • Less range on almost all attacks.
  • When thrown it doesn't fly as far.
  • More Knock-back on all attacks
  • More damage on most attacks.
  • Has considerably more survivability than other pikmin.
  • Weight=heavy
g.Explanation of pikmin evolution differences
After doing numerous tests with the help of Projectiled we found there to be no difference between the different types of pikmin (i.e. leaf, bud, flower).
The following things we confirmed about the subject:
  • No variation in damage
  • No variation in knockback
  • No variation in average latch number
  • No variation in durability
  • No additional 'armor'
  • No healing benefits (when we first noticed the 1% armor, we questioned if perhaps the process of upgrading to the new form reset the damage)
  • No variation in range
  • No variation in return/moving/flying speed
  • No variation in attack lag or windup
  • No variation in 'elemental' attack


2. Moveset
Note:​
  • Range and Knock-back will be rated on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the best and 1 being the worst. This scale will be based on Olimar’s attacks alone with the best move range wise receiving a 10 and the best move knock-back wise receiving a 10.
  • Whenever Olimar does a move that uses pikmin the pikmin used falls to the back of the line after the move. The only move that uses pikmin and doesnt change the order of the line is Olimar's U-B.
  • N-air
    • Description: Olimar spins in the air, completing a 1080.
    • Uses: This move can be deceiving. The graphic for this move makes it look like your doing a lot of damage but the damage for the move is only moderate (12%) and it can be hard to hit with. It’s a good move to use when your opponent is on top of you.
    • Range: 1
    • Knock-back: 3
  • F-air
    • Description: Olimar swings in front of him from slightly above and behind his head to below and behind is body the next pikmin in line.
    • Uses: This move can sometimes get you the kill and it comes out pretty quick. It’s a good move to use just don’t spam it too much.
    • Range: 3
    • Knock-back: 6
  • D-air
    • Description: Olimar swings down from above him the next pikmin in line.
    • Uses: This move is a spike and so if you are in a position to spike it’s a good move to use. Be careful though when trying to spike; Olimar’s recovery is easily gimped, so if you mess up you may lose a life.
    • Range: 3
    • Knock-back: 6
  • U-air
    • Description: Olimar throws above him the next pikmin. The pikmin flips twice.
    • Uses: This is one of Olimar’s best moves for racking up the damage. This move coupled with Olimar’s U-smash will make people wary when they are above you.
    • Range: 7
    • Knock-back: 8
  • B-air
    • Decsription: Olimar spins once and swings horizontally the next pikmin in line.
    • Uses: This move is very similar in use to the F-air.
    • Range: 3
    • Knock-back: 6
  • F-tilt
    • Description: Olimar jumps forward launching his feet first.
    • Uses: This move has good range and its decent knocking people back just enough to start a combo. It’s a good move to do to keep your play varied.
    • Range: 7
    • Knock-back: 2
  • D-tilt
    • Description: Olimar dives sliding across the ground.
    • Uses: This move can be a good combo starter at low percents. It has a little lag afterward though and as with all of Olimar’s tilts you don’t have the luxury of a disjointed hit-box like you do with most of his moves.
    • Range: 5
    • Knock-back: 4
  • U-tilt
    • Description: Olimar jumps and spins 3 times.
    • Uses: Good range but not a disjointed hit box. Personally if I am ever in a position where I can do this move I would just assume U-smash.
    • Range: 9
    • Knock-back: 6
  • F-throw
    • Description: Olimar sends the next pikmin in line forward to grab the opponent. The pikmin pulls the opponent back in then spins as it throw the opponent forward.
    • Uses: All of Olimar’s throws are good. This throw is best used at high percents when you want the person off the edge; you probably wont get a kill with it though.
    • Range: 9
    • Knock-back: 6
  • D-throw
    • Description: Olimar sends the next pikmin in line forward to grab the opponent. The pikmin pulls the opponent back, lays the opponent on the grabs and then slams itself into the opponent.
    • Uses: My personally favorite throw. This one is great for combos. Trying catching them with an U-smash after this throw at low percents.
    • Range: 9
    • Knock-back: 2
  • U-throw
    • Description: Olimar sends the next pikmin in line forward to grab the opponent. The pikmin pulls the opponent back and then leaps spinning the opponent upside down and slamming him head first into the ground.
    • Uses: Decent throw but I personally don’t use it much. It doesn’t combo well and it’s not strong enough to be a good move unless your opponent is pretty high. Best used as a kill move at high percents with purple pikmin and can also kill with a blue pikmin if you are not in good position for a kill from a blue pikmin back throw or if your opponent DI's well.
    • Range: 9
    • Knock-back: 7
  • B-throw
    • Description: Olimar sends the next pikmin in line forward to grab the opponent. The pikmin pulls the opponent back in the fall backward while throwing the opponent back.
    • Uses: Good for when you want to get the opponent off the stage. It can be a kill move at high percents. Best used as a kill move with blue pikmin.
    • Range: 9
    • Knock-back: 6
  • Throw hit
    • Description: The pikmin currently grabbing slams its head into the opponent.
    • Uses: Good for racking up damage, be careful though it seems to be easier to break out of grabs than it was in melee.
    • Range: NA
    • Knock-back: NA
  • F-smash
    • Description: Olimar sends the next pikmin in line flying forward.
    • Uses: This move has amazing range and can be a good kill move. This move is great for spacing (keeping the optimal distance between you and your opponent) and can really surprise people when it comes out. It has little start up lag and little finishing lag.
    • Range: 10
    • Knock-back: 7
  • D-smash
    • Description: Olimar sends two pikmin charging head first from either side of him.
    • Uses: This smash has less range than the others but it can still be a really good kill move. It’s good to use when you are not in a position to U-smash but are close enough to hit with it.
    • Range: 5
    • Knock-back: 8
  • U-smash
    • Description: Olimar throws the next pikmin in line straight up in the air.
    • Uses: This is Olimar’s best smash. It does pretty decent damage, combos well at low percents, has amazing range (try using this through platforms), and will probably be your most reliable kill move. This move seems to have more horizontal range with yellow pikmin
    • Range: 9
    • Knock-back: 10
  • Jab 1
    • Description: Olimar swings his head forward (his antenna also has a hitbox).
    • Uses: Olimar jab is ok. I don’t like it much but it could be that I’m just not used to it. It can be good to surprise your opponent with but don’t expect to get much of a combo started from it.
    • Range: 2
    • Knock-back: NA
  • Jab 2
    • Description: Olimar swings his head back.
    • Uses: This move can only be used after first using Olimar’s Jab 1. It’s the best move to use if you first hit with Jab 1.
    • Range: 3
    • Knock-back: 3
  • Running
    • Description: Olimar does a summersault.
    • Uses: This move isn’t necessary bad it’s just that this move is Olimar attacking and therefore does not have a disjointed hit-box. It’s good for getting a combo started if you can hit with and it’s pretty fast. I look at it as a good way to keep play varied.
    • Range: NA
    • Knock-back: 5
  • F-B (Latch)
    • Description: Olimar throws a pikmin forward. When the pikmin hit the enemy they latch and swing the head into the opponent (similar to throw hit) 8 to 10 times or until knocked off. It takes Olimar about 2 ¾ sec. to throw 6 pikmin.
    • Uses: This move makes Olimar. You can rack up some really good damage with this move and it’s really good to keep your opponents busy. If you’re not doing anything else I recommend spamming this move. To probably take advantage of this move you will need to get used to the distance each pikmin flies and the arcs they follow. I find this move is best used out of a jump.
    • Range: 10
    • Knock-back: 4 (with purple)
  • N-B
    • Description: Olimar pulls pikmin out of the ground and throws them behind him. It takes Olimar little over 1 sec. to pull 6 out.
    • Uses: This move is very fast and it’s essential to playing Olimar. It’s good to use this whenever you have some time and don’t have 6 pikmin.
    • Range: NA
    • Knock-back: NA
  • D-B
    • Description: Olimar blows his whistle and a ring of colors expands around him. All pikmin on the stage return to Olimar and line up behind him; if Olimar performs this move while off the stage all pikmin close enough to him will return.
    • Uses: This moves primary function is to call your pikmin back to you; however it has a number of uses. You’ll need to use when recovering to get all your pikmin together. It switches the order of your pikmin so it’s essential for when you need a certain kind of pikmin. It also has a few frames of super armor right at the beginning of it so you can really surprise your opponent with it.
    • Range: NA
    • Knock-back: NA
  • U-B
    • Description: Olimar throws all the pikmin following him at a 45 degree angle in front of him. If close to the edge the pikmin will grab it. If someone is edgehogging the pikmin may hit the opponent but still will not grab the edge. This move does not alter the order of the pikmin.
    • Uses: This move is Olimar’s only means of recovering after to uses his 2nd jump (unless you get a footstole jump off). It can be easily gimped so be careful. It does moves you up a little bit so if you right next to edge you can use it to get you over the lip of the stage. This move can also be used as an attack and although I didn't like it at first I have recently changed my mind. There is little risk in using this move if you opponent is far away but at the same time don't use it if you can't seem to hit with his because after using it Olimar takes a while to recover and I have seen a lot of Olimars waste opportunities trying to hit with this move. I have recently started to use this move a lot as an edge-guard (read the strategies section) and found it to be incredibly useful.
    • Range: 10 (variable)
    • Knock-back: 3
3. Damage table
Note:​
  • On Latching pikmin seem to hit for 8-10 hits (assuming the move is not suffering from diminishing returns) if they are not knocked off when you opponent is at 0%; however as there damage damage up the pikmin stay latched for fewer and fewer hit. I will need to do more tests to see how many hits they stay latched for at different percents.
  • On Latching pikmin seem to hit for 8-10 hits (assuming the move is not suffering from diminishing returns) if they are not knocked off.
  • This damage chart is based on attacks that have not been weakened through diminishing returns.

Code: 
		Red	Blue	Yellow	White	Purple	Olimar
N-air							12
F-air		15	13	12	5	14	
D-air		16	14	12	8	14	
U-air		24	22	16	9	22	
B-air		13	13	12	5	13	

F-tilt							6
D-tilt							6-2
U-tilt							11

F-throw		6	13	7	6	7	
D-throw		9	12	8	6	8	
U-throw		9	12	11	6	11	
B-throw		7	14	9	7	9	
Throw hit	2	2	2	4	2	

F-smash		15	15	13	9	18	
F-smash H	12	11	9	6	13	
F-smash C	21	21	18	12	25	
F-smash CH	16	15	12	8	18	
D-smash		13	12	11	6	15	
D-smash H	10	9	8	4	12	
D-smash C	18	16	11	8	21	
D-smash CH	14	12	15	5	16	
U-smash		15	15	14	9	16	
U-smash H	12	11	10	5	13	
U-smash C	21	21	19	12	22	
U-smash CH	16	15	14	9	18	

Jab 1							2-3
Jab 2							10
Latch		2/hit	2/hit	2/hit	6/hit	6
U-B     	7	6	6	6	8
Running							11
Table Key:​
  • #-#: there are multiple parts to this attack and a person can easily hit with one or both parts depending on spacing or the size of the opponent.
  • #/hit: # per hit
  • H (e.g. F-smash H): For all of Olimar's smash attacks there seem to be to different types of hits which are based upon spacing. These hits do not seem to be chipping as there is a distance further still from the opponent where chipping occurs. The H denotes the second weaker type of hit.
  • C: Charged smash
  • CH: C and H
4. Pikmin Durability table
Code: 
		Red	Blue	Yellow	White	Purple
Life (%)	9	14	9	4	15
Note: Pikmin seem to not take 1% damage attacks (we are calling this anomaly "1% armor"). However after receiving enough 1% damage attacks they will die but at a much higher total percent than what 2% or higher damage attacks total too. Myself and Projectiled are still working to find an explanation for this.

5. Advanced Tech
This section of the guide will be updated as Advance Tech is discovered.​
  • Whistle armor: This tactic could easily be one of Olimar's most useful and its relatively easy to time. Just D-B right as your getting hit and Olimar will suffer no knockback (he will still be damaged though). The thing that makes this move often better than air-dodging is that you recover faster than you would by air-dodging so you can punish your opponent more readily punish your opponent or get back to the edge. Another thing that makes this good is that when a person hits you there is a small slow down that happens when the move connects, making it even easier for you to get off whatever move you want. I generally only use this tactic in the air but it can be useful on the ground as well because of the hit stun. Try not to spam this too much though because people will watch for it and just wait for you to D-B, than punish you. The other thing to watch out for is that sometimes, since Olimar D-B does rearrange his pikmin, you may often try to attack and then be whiff because your pikmin haven't re-synced yet. All together this move can one of Olimar's greatest assets or most easily punishable misshapes so use it carefully.
  • U-B edge-hogging: Run off the edge and right as your falling do Olimar's U-B so that you are still technically on the the stage at the start (so that Olimar doesn't hop a little like when he is in the air) but falling off at the end. Quickly DI back towards the stage and edge-hog. You can also do this technique so that your U-B extends towards the stage.Example: match vs. Zero Suit Samus.
6. Recovering
Recovery with Olimar is an issue a lot of players are concerned about and for good reason; with directional air-dodging gone Olimar’s only means of recovering after using his two jumps is a grapple, his U-B. The grapple length is based upon the number pikmin you currently have following you. The main problem is that if someone is edge-hogging Olimar’s grapple won’t hit the edge.
What to do:
Option 1:
When Olimar uses his U-B he gets a slight boost similar to Yoshi's U-B. You can sometimes use that slight boost to get over the edge. Given how much air time characters have in Brawl and how difficult it can be to actually accomplish re-ordering and hitting someone with a purple pikmin, this is usually your best bet.

Option 2:
Well for one you are going to want to have as many pikmin as possible with you and your going to want to have at least one purple with you so when your getting to a high percent try to be mindful of this. When you are drifting back towards the stage you will need to use your D-B for a couple different reasons. One you want to call all your pikmin back to you and line them up, and two you need to get a purple one next in line and D-B changes the order or your pikmin. You need a purple one because the purple one is the only one that will knock an opponent of the edge if they are edge-hogging. So once you get a purple in position your goal is to hit the edge-hogger with your F-B and then U-B onto the now free edge. If you are close enough you may also be able to hit the edge-hogger off with an aerial (e.g. F-air)​
7. Strategies
This section is difficult to write since depending on which character your playing against your strategy should change quite a bit. That being the case, these strategies are not going to work well against all characters. For more specific strategies I suggest checking out the Character Match-ups section; this section is meant to just give you some general ideas about how to utilize Olimar.
  • F-B -> grab: This can rack up some pretty good damage especially if you can latch a white pikmin. I think this goes without saying but do your best to keep them in some kind of combo to get the most out of this.
  • U-B edge-gaurd: There are a couple different ways of edgegaurding with this. The most obvious way is to just use the U-B as a ranged attack while Olimar is on the stage. The second more dangerous method is to drop below the stage and use your U-B as your opponent is about to grab the edge. If you time it right (before they grab the edge) Olimars U-B will knock the opponent out of the and then grab, sometimes stage spiking. Like I said this second option is risky and will take some serious practice but if you can pull it off it can not only be devastating but very surprising.

    Another great use of this move is edge-hogging with it. While Olimar is hanging from the edge with his U-B the ledge is still considered occupied as if Olimar were clinging himself. The reason why this is so useful though is that Olimar can be knocked off the edge but Olimars Pikmin cannot. Be careful though Olimar can be hit still while he dangles and if he is hit there then he is, barring any miracle, dead. This is best used against opponents when they are recovering more horizontally than vertically. The other important point is, that to get the most distance between Olimar and edge and keep Olimar as safe as possible you will one, need 6 pikmin, and two, wait until you as far away as possible or close to that until you U-B (this can be risky so practice it first).
  • U-air canceling: Ok so I didn't invent this tactic, it has been around since the original 64 smash brothers and was a common strategy for fox players; however I have seen little application of this tactic with Olimar so here goes:

    What I am calling U-air canceling is when you purposefully pull away while currently U-air'ing an opponent so that the last hit and knock-back of the U-air does connect. This tactic can be useful for extended combos and getting more damage in that you otherwise would. It is difficult for me to explain exactly how useful this is without you seeing it for yourself and for the time being I don't have any videos up showing its use. Imagine this though. You connect with an U-air while near the edge you pull back so that you are now in line for a F-air and a red pikmin is the next one up; sounds like a kill to me.

8. Character Match-ups
I am updating this section with an important caveat; that being: it is impossible to write about character match-ups until strategies and meta-game is discovered for other characters. None the less, here goes.

The only way to know how to fight a character is to know how that character is played. Therefore this section of the guide will have two subsections for each character, Description (this section will describe the characters attributes and a basic description of strategies generally employed by that character.) and Counter (this section will describe what I believe to be the best strategy to use against this character).

Note: The Description, Counter, and Difficulty of match section for each character will be a work in progress and I will update it as I learn more about other characters and as new strategies for other characters are discovered.
Bowser:
  • Description: Ok so for those of you who havent heard, Bowser is good. Brawl Bowser is much faster then his melee alternative. Bowsers F-B is pretty strong so watch for it since a lot of Bowser players tend to approach with it. Bowsers jab is also pretty fast. In general the thing you need to know about Bowser is that he is faster then you expect him to be. Oh and is U-B is still good.
  • Counter: Bowser is strong and he has a couple moves that come out pretty fast so the main thing you want to concetrated on this match is outranging him. It is relatively easy to kite Bowser so if you just do your best to keep your distance you can control the match. One important thing to be aware of is that his F-B can grab you out of your shield. Also for those of you who don't know how Bowser F-B, here is a brief explanation: Both you and Bowser have control over where Bowser carries you. The lower percent that your at the more you can control and the higher the percent, the more Bowser can.
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 4

Captain Falcon:
  • Description: Falcon is fast, just as fast comparitivly as he was in Melee. Falcon knee is not what it used to be, it still does a lot of damage and ridiculous knockback but its much harder to connect with and with the new physics engine its not really viable to spam it. Falcons recovery is horrible. His U-B is still bad and now if he has to turn at the start of his U-B he seems to get kind of stalled in the air. His F-B can still be used to recovery with but now Falcon will grab the edge after he F-B's and he will also pop back up in the air after he connects with it. Falcons B-air and U-air are both pretty good, B-air as a kill move and U-B as a great combo move. Falcons jab is really fast and he can grab you right after he jabs so be aware of it. His U-air has almost so landing lag so he can jab --> grab or any number of other things almost immediatly after landing.
  • Counter: This match is pretty easy though not as easy as I first thought it was. Falcon may not be what he was in Melee but hes better than most people think he is. The main thing you need to do this match is keep your spacing. If you are close he can jab you faster than you can do anything but if you keep good spacing he can't really do anything. As with most matches I like to abuse Olimars grab because there is not really much he can do.
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 6

Diddy Kong:
  • Description: Diddy is fast, pretty strong, unpredictable, and has a decent recovery. Diddy has strong smash and aerials, his running combos quite well so if you get hit with it your bound to hit with something else and its also one of the approaches that you can't shield grab. His N-B (bananas) can set up some really interesting lengthy combos and can be used to trap you as well. Picture this situation: you're next to the edge, there is a banana in front and Diddy just past the banana. Now of course there are ways to get out of this situation without taking damage but I am sure you can imagine how it could limit your options.
  • Counter: The key to this match up is to keep Diddy pressured. If a Diddy player is allowed to control the pace of the match then he/she can set up banana combos and you wont know what hit you. The tough thing about this match or any other match where it pays to be aggressive is that Olimar has to be tentatively aggressive to do well. Yes you need to pressure Diddy but even more important is that you need to keep your spacing. It can be difficult because you need to keep good spacing, not be too far or too close but you need to kind of dance around it so that its not real real obvious that you are keeping a certain number of feet away. This kind of play dominates street fighter and since smash brothers is played on a much larger stage people think its not as prevailing a dynamic but it is, its just more difficult to see. The spacing you need to keep is the distance in between the end of your grab range and your jab. Keep Diddy close enough to grab but don't get close enough to hit with your jab unless he is vulnerable.
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 7

Donkey Kong:
  • Description: Donkey is actually pretty good in Brawl if you haven't noticed yet. His B-air has ridiculous range, all is tilts are pretty effective, all his smashes are really strong, his recovery is better, his N-B charges faster (and now has super armor) and he is a giant gorilla that wears a tie! Ok so I may be slightly biased since DK has always been one of my favorite characters is smash brothers. Like I said DK's tilts are good and a good DK will know how to space them well. Reverse aerial rush makes DK's B-air insane. Oh and I almost forgot, its really easy for DK to stage spike with his throw.
  • Counter: As much as I love DK and I would like to be able to tell you that DK is so kick a** that it doesn't matter that he is big and that big characters don't do well against Olimar, alas this is not the case. DK falls victim to same stuff that the other big characters do. Pikmin throw is good this match because DK is big. If your even remotely near DK you should be able to hit him with a smash even if you don't space it well. That match shouldn't be a problem; however that being said, do be mindful of your spacing because a DK smash can kill Olimar at very low percents. Also don't forget that DK's N-B has super armor frames.
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 5

Falco:
  • Description: Falco is good, very good, quite possible one of the best in the game. His F-smash is very strong, his B-air is too, his D-air still spikes, his blaster is infinitely useful, and he has a chain-throw vs. most of the cast. Falco is getting more and more popular right now so soon we will no more about this character.
  • Counter: As with all matches it is very important to keep your spacing. Falco is quite strong so if your not careful you'll get knocked off at low percents and then if you don't die from the blow Falco should be able to edge guard you. Falco's D-air will out-prioritize your U-smash so be aware of this. It is important in this match to keep Falco pressured because is you allow Falco to keep you pressured than you are going to find yourself in trouble.
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 7

Fox:
  • Description: Fox may not be the best in the game as he was in Melee but he still pretty good. His D-air is amazing and it will out-prioritize most anything Olimar can do. His D-air combos into his U-tilt and at low percents it can rack up a lot of damage. Fox's N-B (his laser) is really fast and can knock away pikmin so if you just try to spam F-B can just spam N-B. He shine can still kill and B-air is still strong so watch out for them. All together Fox plays quite differently than his Melee alternative but none of his moves are drastically different than before.
  • Counter: To keep control of this match you will need to be pretty aggressive since if not fox can just spam B. I like to abuse Olimar grab in this match since there is little fox can do to punish Olimars grab even when he misses with it. Fox recovery is pretty bad too so you can be aggressive even in your edge-guarding.
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 7

Game & Watch:
  • Description: In some ways I am happy that they made G&W good but I do think they went a little overboard. His N-Air auto-cancels, his B-air lasts forever and is near impossible to punish, his D-air hits or landing, his smashes are quite strong, and his recovery is good.
  • Counter: The few G&W's I have played seem to spam D-air and B-air so be aware of how these moves work and don't try to punish when you can't. When your not actually attacking G&W try to keep your distance to avoid his B-air. This match can be a stressful one because if the spacing that you need to keep is pretty tight cause if you get to far you can't effectively attack and if you get to close than your are likely to be on the losing side of the fight. Also as with Snake's U-B if you can grab G&W out of his U-B and you don't actually throw him than he will be unable to use his U-B again.
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 9

Ganondorf:
  • Description: Ganondorf is relatively slow has a bad recovery and is big. Ganondorfs main strength is that he is just that, strong. His F-B will grab oppponents out of their shield and he can do it in the air; he can also do it over the edge to kill you and him both. He no longer can use D-B to gain another jump though a Ganondorf player may still use it just to descend quicker. Ganondorf can turn at the start of his N-B.
  • Counter: This match is all about field control. You can toss pikmin with F-B to force Ganondorf to approach and then when he does, punish him. If he comes at you with an aerial simply shield it and grab then D-throw, U-smash, and U-air. If he comes at you with his F-B its best to just roll or point dodge (I realize there a lot of different terms thrown around for this move but I have always called it this) out of the way and then punish him; it's probably also best to use the same strategy when approached with his D-B (keep in mind though that he D-B goes pretty far so roll behind him not in front.) Ganondorf can now turn at the start of his N-B so be aware of this. All in all you should not lose this match unless the Ganondorf player is a lot better than you.
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 2

Ice Climbers:

Ike:

Jigglypuff:

King Dedede:

Kirby:
  • Description:
    t!MmY said:
    Overall, Kirby may not look like he has a lot going for him - he is a light, short-ranged, slow, pink puffball. Sounds threatening, yes?

    While the above is a common conception of Kirby, and entirely accurate, it reveals one advantage that Kirby tends to have in a match-up and that is how awkward he is to fight against. Fighting a light, short-ranged, slow, pink puffball is easy in theory, but players have to be familiar with what Kirby can do and keep on their toes. Kirby has various attacks to choose from and can go from quick and weak to slow and powerful depending how situations arise.

    He lacks a good approach as both his ground and aerial speed is slow and his aerial attacks do not come out especially quickly, nor necessarily have little landing lag. But, as mentioned before, he can switch things up with B-air and U-air for speed, Final Cutter at a distance, and well-placed tilts to keep you off guard.

    Because of his poor approach, he plays well as a defensive character who gets quick hits in and tries to move the game to the ledge or off-stage where he has an advantage. Playing patiently can make sure you don't leave yourself open and staying at a distance with ranged attacks can force Kirby to go offensive. Not making mistakes is very important in fighting Kirby, especially now with his buffed Stone, Hammer, and Smash attacks allowing for KO opportunities.
    Click to expand...
  • Counter: So I had a difficult time writing this section since no one I play with plays Kirby so I had to write this based on my impression and making my friends try Kirby for as long as I could make them. I may update this afet I get some more play in vs. Kirby. Anyway here goes:

    Your best bet this match is to just out-range him as much as possible. As t!MmY said, Kirby has little options as far as approaching goes. Spam your F-B this match and make him approach then just punish him when he comes in. Kirby can get off tilt after some of his aerials before you can shield grab so a good Kirby player wont let you shield grab is he comes in from the right angle. Kirby is one of the characters that you can actually try and edge-guard if your feeling adventurous. You can easily spike him out of his U-B. Watch out for Kirby's D-B (rock) when your juggling him it comes out quicker than it has in previous games. Kirby, like most of the cast, will out-prioritize Olimar in the air so try not to trade hits with aerials. This is not to say that you shouldn't use aerials just that you need to mix it up. Watch out for Kirby's ducking cause you can often miss with an attack just because Kirby ducked. This match isn't that bad but Kirby can surprise you.
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 6

Link:

Lucario:

Lucas:

Luigi:
  • Description:
  • Counter:
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale:

Mario:

Marth:
  • Description: Marth has really good range, almost no lag on most of his moves (his aerials in particular), good damage, and can edge guard well. If Marth approaches with is F-air (possible other aerials as well I still need to test.) he will be able to F-smash (or any number of other things) before the opponent can grab, similar to fox’s aerials in melee and his shine. Marths F-air can cut right through Olimar F-B so most good Marths will simply knock away the pikmin with F-air and continue to approach. Marth can U-B out of shield to do great knock back. Marth’s D-B, if shielded will eat away at your shield and can often result in a shield break.
  • Counter: This match is extremely difficult, it is so far the hardest one I have come up against. You will not be able to F-B spam against a good marth since his F-air will just knock them away. Most Marth players will generally approach with aerials, the best thing to do is just shield and roll away. Often players will also approach with F-B. If you have enough shield you can try to shield grab if he finishes the combo, if not get out of the way. Really the only thing you can do against Marth is watch for what little lag he has and use said opportunity to get in what damage you can. Combos in this game are few and far between since all characters spend very little time tumbling, the trouble with Marth is that his moves come out so fast that combos against him don’t really exist (unless your opponent DI’s poorly), it also doesn’t help that his counter is better this time around. You are probably going to want to use option 1 to recovery. When the Marth player tries to edge guard keep in mind that you can air dodge multiple times. Air dodges and point dodges are crucial in this match, you’ll need to use them a lot but try not to be predictable. One thing that has helped me a lot in this match is Olimars N-air. It is a great move to use when Marth is in close. Lastly, Marth has little he can do when he is above you so use this time to get some damage in, just be aware of his counter. All in all this match can be done but you will need to go about it differently then when you play other characters.
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 8.5

Meta Knight:
  • Description:
  • Counter:
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale:

Ness:

Peach:
  • Description:
  • Counter:
  • Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale:

Pikachu:

Pikmin & Olimar:
Description:
Read the guide
Counter:
This match is probably the most annoying match I have ever played. I need to play this match a few more times but from what I can tell this match is nothing but a test of patience. The factor, who is willing to F-smash repeatedly for the longest. F-B if you get the chance but since your opponent can too you should really only use it every once in a while unless you just have a lot better aim than your opponent. Grabbing can be used in this match but only if your close because if your near the end of Olimars grab range the other Olimar can simply F-smash you out of your grab. So given that, if you get grabbed, F-smash immediately and you will usually get ouf ot the grab. As far as edge guarding Olimar, as I am sure you know, all you need to do is edge-hog. This match can be very frustrating because sometimes it feels like it has little to do with skill but there definitely is a specific method to use in this match so make sure you know it. Oh and N-air is a really good move to use if you are in close.
Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: Annoying

Pit:

Pokemon Trainer:
  • Description:
    Card said:
    Squirtle:
    Description: Squirtle is an extremely quick and in-your-face character. There really is no reason for a Squirtle to be standing still for any moment, or to be grounded for that matter. Squirtle has an extreme aerial game, and out-prioritizes a lot of characters in the air. An easy comparison would be to say Squirtle is similar to Melee’s Jigglypuff, only with 2 jumps. Although the only problem with Squirtle is that when faced off against characters who have disjointed hit boxes, his aerials tend to fall short. Squirtle relies heavily on doing auto-canceled aerials and following up with jabs and tilts. If he isn't jabbing, he'll be using his incredibly quick grabs to launch his opponents into the air, where he can swiftly attack them. In addition to that, he is also very short in size, which causes some attacks and projectiles to fly over his head, especially while he is crawling. Squirtle tends to have trouble against short characters like Olimar, since he has trouble hitting them with his aerials during the rising of his jump.

    Ivysaur:
    Description: Ivysaur on the other hand actually is really about Range and Power. Many of her attacks make full use of her vines and leaves, and involve catching the opponent off-guard with attacks that just poke out. Because of this, it allows Ivysaur to play a very safe defensive game, and rack up a ton of damage with annoying ranged attacks. It should also be noteworthy that Ivysaur's Razor Leaf attack actually doesn't stop once it hits a target, but continues onwards. This allows Ivysaur to cut-through Pikmin as they are tossed at her, and eventually hit Olimar himself with the very same Leaf toss.

    Charizard:
    Description: Charizards role should be fairly obvious. He's got Power; He’s got Survival, although he’s a bit on the slow side. I know it may sound silly at first, but Charizard is all about doing large effect attacks, which do a ton of damage to boot. Almost all his attacks have enormous hit boxes which strike all around him, some are even very quick. There are also some attacks which have surprisingly long range, as well as his Grab reach which is one of the longest non-tether grabs in the game. Not to mention Charizard is the heaviest, and has the best recovery of the three, which allows him to be quite the killer stock-tank. Many of Charizard's attacks involuntarily hit and kill stray Pikmin. Often this causes Olimar to have to pluck more Pikmin than usual.
    Click to expand...
  • Counter:
    Squirtle:
    Counter: Squirtle is in my opinion the hardest of the three. His speed makes it hard to out range him since he can get inside so quickly and his speed along with his size makes it near impossible to effectively F-B spam. Your grab is going to be very important in this match since it out ranges really anything that Squirtle can do on the ground. Squirtles D-air can go right through your U-air and U-smash (though sometimes it doesn't. I'll need to look into this.) so be aware of this. Squirtles is pretty light so if you can get a good smash in (D-smash will probably be your best bet) you can get some low percent kills on him. Squirtles U-tilt comes out very quickly and can combo well so be careful if your above him. If you are going to spam one move in particular vs. Squirtle let it be Olimars D-smash, it has good priority and sends the opponent at a close to horizontal angle. This match is pretty tough but if you pay attention you can win it. Keep in mind mind that your grab out ranges his, its important for this match.
    Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 9

    Ivysaur:
    Counter: Ivysaur like Card said, is all about range, that being the case you have to go about playing Ivysaur a little differently then you would most other characters since you will be both be trying to out-range each other and depending on positioning one or the other will win out. Ivysaurs F-B can cut through pikmin but I still like to spam it if the situation allows. Ivysaur can be pretty slow so if you can get a combo going it will be hard for him to get out; he also has little he can do while above you since your U-air out ranges his D-air. Be careful when approaching Ivysaur since he has several attacks that severely out-range you F-air and B-air. Your grab will once again serve you well vs. Ivysaur but be careful Ivysaur has really good range (I know I keep harping this but its central to this match). Ivysaur, like Olimar, has a tether recovery so if you get on the edge while he is recovering you can edge hog him; however Ivysaur can knock you off with either aerials or his F-B, he wont always be able to knock you off but its something to remember. Ivysaurs N-B shoots seeds straight up in the air and if you try to come in from above you can easily get hit with it so you wont be able to approach that way, the best thing to do if you get above him is just to air dodge and get back into better positioning.
    Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 7

    Charizard:
    Counter: Charizard is in my opinion the easiest of the three to deal with. You can easily combo him at low percents with F-throw -> U-smash -> U-air -> U-air, or any number of other combinations. Charizard is big, which means he is a great target for F-B spam; he can F-air to knock away pikmin but its not fast enough to keep away all of the thrown pikmin away. Charizard has some strong attacks so be careful not to get hit if you can help it since Olimar is light and he will, if hit with the right attack, fly far and be set up for easy edge-gaurding. Big characters in general are going to have problems vs. a well played Olimar and this match up is no exception.
    Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 3

R.O.B.:
Description:
lord karn said:
Olimar has a much higher damage output than Robot. However, Robot can gimp Olimar extremely easily. Once Olimar is off the edge Robot can just fair a couple of times and edgehog and Olimar can be killed at very low percents. Robot’s spinning top can also kill Pikmin coming back to Olimar. Since Robot is large, he is an easy target for Pikmin spam, so Robot should usually be offensive, focusing on getting early kills to keep up.
Click to expand...
Counter: This can be an extremely difficult match vs. a good Rob player. Rob has the ability to really keep the pressure on Olimar and Rob will almost always out prioritize Olimar in the air. If Rob approaches with his F-air he can get off a D-smash before you can shield grab so its usually best to just roll away. Rob has little he can do when he is above you so punish him with your U-air and keep him juggled. To make the U-air especially potent try to keep red pikmin for this because a well timed D-air from Rob can stop all other types. Rob has great range on the ground with he F-tilt and F-smash so out ranging him is possible but difficult. Rob's recovery is ridiculous and you should'nt try edge guarding him because if the player is good you will get punished every time. F-special spam is your friend this match and you will probably get most of your damage off it. Olimar's most reliable kill move this match is his U-smash and since Rob has such a good recovery you will have to get him to a much higher percent to kill with much else. Try to hit him with an U-smash or an U-air off a platform to pull out the low % kill. This match isn't a counter for Olimar but its certainly an even one and you wont be winning unless you keep your distance as often as possible.
Difficulty of match rated on a 10 point scale: 8.5

Samus:

Sheik:

Snake:

Sonic:

Toon Link:

Wario:

Wolf:

Yoshi:

Zelda:

Zero Suit Samus:

9. Stages
I will update this sections once neutral and counterpick stages are decided upon.​
10. FAQ
TrueRedemption said:
current questions are: ...Exploration/findings about weird grabs noticed, for example grabbing the opponent while they are on the ledge.
Click to expand...
  • After doing numerous tests with Projectiled we found that Olimar's grab will grab certain characters off the edge while they are clinging. Those characters are: Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Pikachu, Game&Watch, Luigi, Meta Knight, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Ice Climbers (if both are clinging it will pull off Popo), Ness, Olimar, Jigglypuff, and Lucas
GenG said:
Do you know if yellow pikmin have more reach for smashes?
Click to expand...
  • I do not have the capabilities to test this down to the pixel but given the tests I was able to do, there does not seem to be any discernible difference between the range of smashes with yellow pikmin vs. the range with red, blue, or white pikmin.​
TrueRedemption said:
My question, its apparently been tested and proven that diminishing returns does not apply to throwing pikmin. If this is just speculative the test would be appreciated, but moreover, does this in fact apply to all pikmin related moves?
Click to expand...
  • All of Olimar's moves suffer from diminishing returns including his throw hit and F-B (latch). The effect on the F-B is that the pikmin one, do less damage and two, stay latched for a shorter number of hits.​
kafke said:
so does the pikmin chain first knowdown the opponent and then grab the ledge, or just only one of those?
Click to expand...
  • I just tested this again and as I said in the guide: If someone is edgehogging you cannot grapple the edge your U-B only knocks them off (if it hits them).​
11. Misconceptions
  • The terrain effects the probability of picking different colored pikmin.
  • Now I don't wont to say that there is no difference what so ever but after picking hundreds of pikmin on different stages and tabulating the results, I found very little difference in the ratios of pikmin color. What little difference there was, I believe, is attributable to too small of a sample size. If there is any difference it is negligible.​
  • OMG Charizard has fire and he’ll kill all your pikmin!
  • Yes Charizard has fire and yes only your red pikmin are immune to fire however Charizard can only attack your pikmin when they are not following you. If your pikmin are returning from attacking he can use a fire attack to kill them but if you are just standing there then he can only damage you.​
  • You should try to keep your pikmin because flower pikmin are more effective (have better knockback, do more damage, live longer).
  • This is actually a very common misconception. Myself and Projectiled did a number of tests and never saw any difference at all between the different types (i.e. leaf, bud, flower) of pikmin.​
12. Gameplay Videos
I will link videos in this section, some with my own gameplay and some with other players.

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Zero Suit Samus (El Cancel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai5PLb4cGds

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Snake (El Cancel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfRnr4xrRfI

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Snake (El Cancel) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR0Q9QVBmhA

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Captain Falcon (El Cancel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnnDeIg5Mo

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Captain Falcon (El Cancel) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaTvwgVPOzw

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Ganondorf (El Cancel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTlLMIgJO8E

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Ganondorf (El Cancel) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKgxuhw0Fus

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Ike (El Cancel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGp9o0vZhdc

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Robot (Karn) 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiBp8ysQIX8

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Pokemon Trainer (Projectiled) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1mvC5ZH4gg

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Pokemon Trainer (Projectiled) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8afTloipCZ4

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Robot (Karn) 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDRWVcr5zQ0

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Fox (Karn)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A4l2UFsPKg

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Robot (Karn) 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeri8Xq654

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Fox (Karn) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srErEzuuuXs
​

13. Credits
I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of the people listed below for their assistance in the completion of this guide. There is absolutely no way I could have gotten this all done without help and these people are a few of the key contributers.
Projectiled:
  • Projectiled is one of my best friends and he has been a great help in writing this guide. He has helped on a number of different tests and he is one of my most consistent play partners
  • Assited in collecting data for section 4.
  • Assited in tests involving the difference between types (i.e. leaf, bud, flower) of pikmin.
  • Assited in tests involving which characters can be grabbed off the edge while clinging.
Card:
  • Wrote the Description sections for the characters Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard
t!MmY:
  • Wrote the Description section for the character Kirby.
lord karn:
  • Wrote the Description section for the character Rob.


Important Notice:
  • I will be updating this post with a more complete guide very soon. Thank you for your patience.
  • I am still working on the layout.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom