For all those who are complaining about "lack of advance techs" (IMPORTANT)

[Lord Knight]

For all of you who are complaining about the lack of advanced techs, please. . .

Watch this vid.

Realize that it takes a long time for a game like this to grow and just play the game to find out Brawl stuff instead of complaining about what Melee stuff is not in there. This is not Super Smash Bros Melee 2.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

I would agree, but you also have to remember the how competitive gaming was back then and how it has grown over the past years as well.

 

[Chaosblade77]

I would agree, but you also have to remember the how competitive gaming was back then and how it has grown over the past years as well.

What does that have to do with anything, there are more players so they are allowed to complain because they do not automatically know all of the advanced techniques?

Fact is, they just need to be figured out, Brawl is already much more technical than Melee was at that point...

 

[turbo_ja]

Melee lacks advanced techniques...look at that!

lets go back to 64.

 

[craiigg]

haha i''ve been wanting to say this for a while
when melee was released there was the argument about no combos, look how melee evolved.
people understood the game and found out adv techs piece by piece.
now for brawl it will happen again, except work a little faster with our knowledge of how smash works and AR we basically know what to look for =)

 

[Lord Knight]

Melee lacks advanced techniques...look at that!

lets go back to 64.

You clearly missed the point.

 

[SmashChu]

Can't people just play without stupid little tricks?

 

[Rang Flash]

They're not stupid little tricks. They add more depth to the game than you can imagine.

 

[studgangsta]

wow..i needed that. thank you for enlightening me

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Attention: Brawl sucks.

 

[Blue sHell]

Can't people just play without stupid little tricks?

See, we're not calling the way casual people play stupid. Yet of course, you have to call our way stupid, right? Thank you for displaying such knowledge of the otherside of the arguement.... FYI all advanced players know what it is to be a casual player, but about 99.9% of casual players don't fully grasp what advanced techs do to the game as a whole.

Sure, they add tons of depth. Try playing with no items, Fox only, Final Destination. Sounds fun! :D

. I'll still be playing the way it was designed though. It's more fun that way.

See what I mean? No?


People who play competively like playing at the metagame level. If it weren't for these "stupid little tricks" do you realize in melee EVERYONE would use shiek and the whole game would be less about intelligence and tactics and more about mindgameless gamplay.

The person who learns and absolutely masters all the techniques is no different from the other guy who did. It's not about "LOOK HOW SKILLFUL I AM I COULD DO THIS", it's freaking application and tactics and mindgames.



On topic. I completely agree with what the topic creator is trying to say.

What alot of people don't realize is that the delevopers gave weaker aerials almost no lag. Look at Dedede's Nair landtime, or Kirby's bair and nair. They're all even faster than L-canceled aerials and alot of people are failing to see this because YES all the stronger aerials that we use to love have been given more landlag because the lack of L-canceling.

My only worry is that people stay in the air way too long even when shhfling. Shieldgrabbing is going to be soooooo easy on aerials that aren't super ranged. But alas I have faith that we'll evolve as players and find a great metagame for brawl. Just give it time. I remember I hated how stupid Melee was when I first picked it up and compared it to 64. Espeically the fact that they increased the landlag on L-cancels and they lowered the speed at which you could spam grabs.

 

[bluekitsune13]

They're not stupid little tricks. They add more depth to the game than you can imagine.

Sure, they add tons of depth. Try playing with no items, Fox only, Final Destination. Sounds fun! :D

In all seriousness though, I'm sure somebody will find new "advanced" techs eventually. I'll still be playing the way it was designed though. It's more fun that way.

 

[Gooche]

Good find. This proves that a seeming like simple game can evolve into a masterpiece of high speed chess like gameplay.

Everyone should watch the video to check out the roots of the scene. We've come a long way in 6+ years.

 

[NeoSoul]

For all of you who are complaining about the lack of advanced techs, please. . .

Watch this vid.

Realize that it takes a long time for a game like this to grow and just play the game to find out Brawl stuff instead of complaining about what Melee stuff is not in there. This is not Super Smash Bros Melee 2.

man these people take the fun out of video games =/

 

[Blue sHell]

I love the argument "it's not as fun as _______". I forgot some people have the power to measure fun level activity in the brains of all humans. Pardon me.

Competiveness is fun. It's why people play baseball, basketball, ANYTHING professionally. It's because they love it so much they want to take it to the next level and be the best they could possibly be. THAT is my and ALOT of people's idea of fun.

To the people that play just to play the fact that there are clone characters infuriates and confuses them. But if you look at the game from a fighting game perspective, all the characters even the clones are different because of the different ways the attacks actually land. To a casual player Falco and Fox are only a tiny bit different in Melee, but tell that to a person that actually knows and see their reaction.

 

[NeoSoul]

I love the argument "it's not as fun as _______". I forgot some people have the power to measure fun level activity in the brains of all humans. Pardon me.

Competiveness is fun. It's why people play baseball, basketball, ANYTHING professionally. It's because they love it so much they want to take it to the next level and be the best they could possibly be. THAT is my and ALOT of people's idea of fun.

To the people that play just to play the fact that there are clone characters infuriates and confuses them. But if you look at the game from a fighting game perspective, all the characters even the clones are different because of the different ways the attacks actually land. To a casual player Falco and Fox are only a tiny bit different in Melee, but tell that to a person that actually knows and see their reaction.

I do concider the fact that if you love something you need to follow through, but some people need to realize that at some point the line is crossed when it gets ridiculous to nit pick at something that you havent had any tactile experience with...

 

[NES n00b]

It also comes a time when you go to far with trying to nit pick people who are trying to nit pick. =\ Just saying. . . . .

And seeing the lag in Falcon's and Ganondorf's arials while Peach still has FC makes me want to cry. I might as well just play Peach and Jigglypuff.

 

[Phyvo]

For all of you who are complaining about the lack of advanced techs, please. . .

Watch this vid.

Realize that it takes a long time for a game like this to grow and just play the game to find out Brawl stuff instead of complaining about what Melee stuff is not in there. This is not Super Smash Bros Melee 2.

Ok.

But there's no guarantee we will find new advanced techs. I remember someone saying that Melee was the glitchiest game he ever played. Who's to say Brawl will follow in Melee's footsteps? Who's to say this isn't all there is?

I guess your point right now is that we don't know. I think that competitive players are mostly upset, not because they expected "Melee 2.0" but because now they "don't know" rather than "knowing" like they had hoped. It's as simple as that.

 

[NeoSoul]

It also comes a time when you go to far with trying to nit pick people who are trying to nit pick. =\ Just saying. . . . .

And seeing the lag in Falcon's and Ganondorf's arials while Peach still has FC makes me want to cry. I might as well just play Peach and Jigglypuff.

jigglypuff

 

[S2]

For all of you who are complaining about the lack of advanced techs, please. . .

Watch this vid.

Realize that it takes a long time for a game like this to grow and just play the game to find out Brawl stuff instead of complaining about what Melee stuff is not in there. This is not Super Smash Bros Melee 2.

That vid is a good reminder that Melee grew until it became what it is today.

Brawl will grow too, into an advanced and competitive game. It won't be like Melee, but that doesn't mean it won't be good or tournament worthy.


Scrubs forget that the Melee advanced techs and tournament rules came out of years of trial and error.

Brawl sets this back a bit, but with so many Smash fans the depth of the game will be discovered. Just wait.

 

[Blue sHell]

Once my roomates co-woker gets his copy of the JP brawl I'm going to go pretend to be his friend and get as many impressions for every character and the game as a whole in the competitive aspect of things. I'm not talking about everyone's B-moves and how pretty they're moves are. I'm going to talk about they're potential as a character, they're moves trajectories, and how good they are at either edgegaurding ect. ect.
I'll also try my best to look for any other things that could possibly help out the competitive scene, whether it be character specific or not.

 

[NeoSoul]

That vid is a good reminder that Melee grew until it became what it is today.

Brawl will grow too, into an advanced and competitive game. It won't be like Melee, but that doesn't mean it won't be good or tournament worthy.


Scrubs forget that the Melee advanced techs and tournament rules came out of years of trial and error.

Brawl sets this back a bit, but with so many Smash fans the depth of the game will be discovered. Just wait.

haah exactly.... most these people havent touched the game and are btiching like whiney children.......

 

[The Bino]

LK it doesn't matter if you show ppl a match from 2002 when Advance Techs weren't around yet, cuz people are still going to complain now in Brawl until someone figures somethings out

I mean look when we got Melee, Dec 2001... Wavedashing wasn't really discovered until the following year or two years later, but the thing is.. Melee has been around for so long, that people who know the basics of AT's in Melee want to become extremely good in Brawl real fast and want to become the next m2k and want AT's in Brawl now so we can have a massive competitive community from the start

The game hasn't even been released here, and yet all of these ppl are complaining with lack of techniques because they're not in it... when not that many people have played the FINAL VERSION of the game, some have played the demos and still base Brawl off of that... and some are still clinging to Gimpy's Nuts from what he has said about E4All and still haven't come to terms that the game has been changed

But im just waiting to play the game cuz it'll be hot and amazing and Wifi baby lol

 

[Lord Knight]

The point is there is ALREADY a source of competition - all of us. I'm pretty upset that people are ****ting all over Sakurai's hard work.

 

[x4FoSho4x]

Can't people just play without stupid little tricks?

STFU. Your so ignorant, it sickens me.

 

[BBQ]

Blue shell for prez!!!

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Why can't we just play Brawl when it comes out? When we find advanced techniques, we'll use them. It won't be the same as Melee because it's a different game. Different characters will be good, and the metagame will evolve. If you're worried about competition, just host Brawl tournaments. There. You'll have competition. If you have tournaments, you'll have people who want to win them, and will do whatever it'll take to win, including trying to find new tricks and improving their own mindgames.

 

[FaceGuy]

Personally, I wouldn't mind if no advanced techniques were ever found. I never paid attention to any Smash communities for the whole of the time I played Melee, so never learned any, and still I have probably played it more than any other game over a longer stretch of time, and have had a lot more fun with it than almost anything else. It's possible that I could have more fun with it if I'd bothered learning advanced techs, and it's obvious how much extra longevity they add for some people, but for me I think playing it "the way it was meant to be played" would be more fun.

In fact, this gives me hope that, for a while at least, more casual players will stand a chance at beating someone in competitive play (even without advanced techs there's still a good amount of strategy involved).

 

[Titanium Dragon]

I'm glad they got rid of a lot of the old advanced techniques; its a good thing for us. Why? Because it allows a lot of new exploration. Wavedashing, l-cancelling, waveshining, dash-dancing, shuffling, ect. are all fun, but this is a new game, and I want new things to explore in it. I want to be able to be the first guy to figure out something cool.

By having an entirely new set of advanced techniques to explore you and I can come up with cool new things, bring them to tournaments, and own everyone with them. This is the fun of a new game; it is a very cool kind of fun, and I personally greatly look forward to it.

Whining about Brawl is pointless. It will have lots of fun things to do. Just because your oh-so-precious techniques from the last game are gone doesn't mean it isn't a good game, and indeed, the lack of those techniques will make for a better game, full of new things to do and perhaps even a greater degree of balance.

I know how to wavedash, l-cancel, shuffl, ect. and am glad they are no more.

 

[The Bino]

The point is there is ALREADY a source of competition - all of us. I'm pretty upset that people are ****ting all over Sakurai's hard work.

The people who are $hitting all over Sakurai's hard work are more then likely those that wanted Wavedashing removed and basically just really wanted a Melee 2.0 instead of Brawl

I can't wait for Brawl personally and play alot of the smasher's that i've played Melee with, when Brawl is released to see how new ways of playing again... it's a different game and is going to have different feel, different mind games and it's just going to be a great game

 

[Rose]

The point is there is ALREADY a source of competition - all of us. I'm pretty upset that people are ****ting all over Sakurai's hard work.

I'm not obligated to be content with something I'm paying for. Smash Brawl is a product, in the end, and I can ***** about it all I want. Sakurai didn't do me any personal favors.

That said, I'm very excited for Brawl. But I fear that some of these new game mechanics that hinder mobility and edgeguarding will cause the metagame to degenerate by favoring characters that can camp or spam (though thankfully SHL, missile cancelling, and other assorted BS is gone). There's no way to tell until people play it.

it's obvious that the developers did not have the competitive community in mind when they made this game. I don't think that's a bad thing. I just think people need to step back from this reckless optimism and realize that it is possible (even likely) that brawl will have less competitive options than melee. Be realistic.

 

[turbo_ja]

I'm not obligated to be content with something I'm paying for. Smash Brawl is a product, in the end, and I can ***** about it all I want. Sakurai didn't do me any personal favors.

That said, I'm very excited for Brawl. But I fear that some of these new game mechanics that hinder mobility and edgeguarding will cause the metagame to degenerate by favoring characters that can camp or spam (though thankfully SHL, missile cancelling, and other assorted BS is gone). There's no way to tell until people play it.

it's obvious that the developers did not have the competitive community in mind when they made this game. I don't think that's a bad thing. I just think people need to step back from this reckless optimism and realize that it is possible (even likely) that brawl will have less competitive options than melee. Be realistic.

you're missing the whole point of this thread. We didn't realize what the advanced techniques were, nor knew how to implement it competitively until years later it had been released. So be realistic, and realize that the game has yet to be explored to its fullest potential. I remember back when melee came out, everyone was *****ing about the speed of the game...good times

 

[7ak]

Great vid Lord Knight.........never seen that before, very interesting. People have some kind of amnesia and don't remember that we ALL used to play like that. How can you complain about the flaws of a game you haven't even played yet? Unbelievable.........light shield edgehog discovered only a year or two ago, Thunder's combo only discovered a year or two ago, Wobbling discovered/came into use 1-2 years ago, Marth's chaingrabbing brought to a crazy level only about 2-3 years ago......etc. If it took 4-6 YEARS to discover these techs. why whine about a game that has been out in the U.S. for -37 days?

 

[Lord Knight]

I'm not obligated to be content with something I'm paying for. Smash Brawl is a product, in the end, and I can ***** about it all I want. Sakurai didn't do me any personal favors.

That said, I'm very excited for Brawl. But I fear that some of these new game mechanics that hinder mobility and edgeguarding will cause the metagame to degenerate by favoring characters that can camp or spam (though thankfully SHL, missile cancelling, and other assorted BS is gone). There's no way to tell until people play it.

it's obvious that the developers did not have the competitive community in mind when they made this game. I don't think that's a bad thing. I just think people need to step back from this reckless optimism and realize that it is possible (even likely) that brawl will have less competitive options than melee. Be realistic.

You're missing the point.

Also, you do realize that multiplayer games are inherently competitve, right?

 

[Sosuke]

I agree, this is a new game with new rules. Don't expect it to be melle with a few more things. No, it's a new game and lots of stuff is different.

 

[True Fool]

I personally am not a huge fan of most advance techs. Don't bite my head off just yet, but I don't think being a heavier character should just mean that you get comboed(and by advanced techs here, I really mean L-cancelling) and chain-thrown, in turn making you easier to kill than a lighter character.

I might miss wavedashing though. That was an interesting spacing tool. But I'm sure I'll get over it.

The thing I love about smash is that I can play it with three friends with the items on, or I can go to my local tournament*coughwhichisunfortunatelyfarfrommecough* and have some real competitive games. I think I may just be lucky, because I hear a lot of people who are the absolute best out of their friends at this game, but I do have one friend who keeps up with me and usually provides me with my ride to the tourneys. So I have a great time in both worlds of smash.

 

[Mr.C]

Its pretty funny how you have me in your sig =]

 

[WastingPenguins]

Can't people just play without stupid little tricks?

I'm seriously going to explode if the mods don't start making **** like this a bannable offense. It's becoming unbearable at times and causes every constructive thread to erupt into the same tired god**** argument over and over. Smash Boards is a community for discussing competitive Smash. Don't like it? Then get the hell out or quit trying to derail every thread with this pointless ****.

 

[Jacobcc]

For all of you who are complaining about the lack of advanced techs, please. . .

Watch this vid.

Realize that it takes a long time for a game like this to grow and just play the game to find out Brawl stuff instead of complaining about what Melee stuff is not in there. This is not Super Smash Bros Melee 2.

What is an advanced tech?

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

This thread needs to be stickied, or bumped forever
Thank you Lord Knight :bigthumbu