Flavorless Mafia: Game Over. Who won?

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Phone posting and liking posts like its Facebook but had a quick question and I want a question answered by like Friday to Gheb/Marshy+Fro:

I think I am beginning to see a possible Honk+Ri**** scum-team, thoughts?

Reasoning for seeing this?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Too early to make such a call for me. Though Ridic can definitely die. Anything with PJB in it can.

@jakestan why did you like this post? Do you know who PJB is or do you have an issue with the slot?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Alright, I reread Honk, and for the past couple pages, I noticed that pretty much all of Honk's content is an attempt to get JS and Gheb off his back. He's only focusing on directing his content to people who don't like him in attempt to make himself look better or either turn it around on them, specifically with JS, who in my opinion is not scummy.

and overall notable reads at this moment are:
I think both July and Gheb are towny
I don't like frozenmarsh's play, it's not only aggressive, but sidelining
Butt Wolf or whatever and Ryu are absent and therefore null
Kary's weird but null, I don't know how to read his ****
JS is null-town
Gorf is null to me too
and J has gotten a lot of negative attention because of the buddying up of JS, which I agree is odd, but a lot of people claim that to be a way he plays, so I'm gonna wait to formulate more on him.

Vote: Honk
I'm sorry, Honk. At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt because of soup's meta, but your play has become OMGUS and self-preservative and I don't like your slot for that.

I think Honk's a good lynch for D1

Do you have an opinion of FroMar now?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

None of your business.

I have every reason to ask you this.

I'm still very bothered people are town reading that slot and you are no exception.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Alright, time to get down to business.

First things first, I've been looking at Honk and the wagon surrounding him, and if there was any doubt, it's completely gone now. I'm certain that Honk is town.

The wagon has just gone far too fast with far too little resistance. Were some of Soup's early posts a little odd? Maybe. Could you call Soup's case on jakestan OMGUS? Yeah, perhaps. Has Soup been responding emotionally to the pressure? Unquestionably. However, there's one important question nobody's asking, and that's Why does this make him scum?

The fact of the matter is, while Soup's play hasn't been great, absolutely nothing I've seen from him has reeked of scum intent. Let's go over the various points against him, shall we?

Let's start with his "OMGUS" against Jakestan. Has anyone stopped to consider that the case is actually legitimate? Yes, it's based around Jakestan attacking Soup… but what else has Jakestan done? His vote has been on Honk since RVS, he's barely done much of anything not relating to Honk, and he doesn't even have any original reasoning for said vote! First it was there for RVS, then he literally said "I'm going to keep this vote on for pressure, because pressure is good and helps give reads", and THEN he gave us this little gem:



Which is literally "I agree with Gheb and Soup's being emotional". Every time he's posted, he's been using a lot of words without saying anything new, and I completely agree with Soup calling him out on it. Yes, it's OMGUS, but there's such a thing as voting for someone in a scummy manner, and I think Soup's justified here.



The next complaint against Soup is that he's been emotional and aggressive against Gheb (and others) pressure. Let me ask a simple question.

Who wouldn't be?

Gheb has been after Soup since page 3. Gorf has also been after him for a while. They've both been insulting and generally provoking him, and with other people jumping on his case lately, who wouldn't be frustrated? Yeah, Soup's clearly angry, but townies get irritated too. Pressure can get to anyone, whether town, or scum. In mafia, the questions to ask are "Why would a townie react this way", and "Why would scum react this way?" If there's good answers to both of them, then it's not a tell.



The other main thing used against Soup is Gheb's case, which I'll admit is more solid than the other current reasons for voting him. However, while I do agree that the posts Gheb pointed out were odd, I'm not convinced that there's obvious scum intent there. I can see it being reason for keeping an eye on Soup, but there's also the possibility of it being nothing more than awkward word choice.



Finally, the main thing that's convinced me that Honk is town is that the wagon on him came together far too easily. The case on him wasn't some thing of beauty, but rather a few instances of awkward word choice, and then Soup reacting poorly to pressure. However, despite this, it suddenly seems like a large portion of the game is up for lynching Honk, and nobody's really vocally protesting against it. A lot of support has quickly gathered for reasoning that really isn't all that solid, and I'd be shocked if scum wasn't somewhere on that wagon.

I'll analyze the wagon itself shortly, but for now I'm going to just go ahead and post this. I'm hoping to get said analysis done either tonight or tomorrow, but we'll see.

Give this man a medal!

 

[Inglorious Retards]

I have every reason to ask you this.

I'm still very bothered people are town reading that slot and you are no exception.

I don't mind if it bothers you. It's your issue to deal with if you want jakistan lynched.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ahh **** that's right I find Ruy like ACTUALLY scummy and not just **** Ruy scummy.

vote ruy

Where the **** have you even been?

I made a deal at work to be off this Saturday for a smash tournament. In return I need to work two shifts for someone, four hours each. I was going to do it yesturday but Greninja, Charizard, Zero Suit Samus, Yoshi and Sheik happened along with my moms birthday dinner two days after her birthday.

I also got her 60 dollars in Golf stuff.

Then school.

But hey if you think I am scum, bring it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't mind if it bothers you. It's your issue to deal with if you want jakistan lynched.

Ok, but here is where I stand.

I want Jake dead, now.

I dunno where J is with his budding and I am bothered with how he did it because how fast he called him obvious town is completely baffling to me. I don't like how he has interacted with him at all.

I don't like Gorf's play, he's been in a tunnel and then the stuff he is calling Soup on rubs me the wrong way.

Vote: Jakestan

If people lynch Honk, w/e I'd prefer not lynching the slot and I find it more likely they aren't scum off what they have posted. He has done some stupid but who cares, I'm stupid in mafia all the time.

Find the difference.

Jake is far more scummy.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

OFFICIAL FF'S READS TIER LIST/POWER RANKING THREAD:

Top (Town) Tier
Fox
Falco

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

With that I am gone.

 

[rid****ulous]

What I wanna know is, where is J? I feel like I let J off the hook, then he disappeared and now I regret it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He's V/LA.

 

[rid****ulous]

I must have missed that

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 1.8

frozenmarsh751
July: J
Gorf:
Kary: July
Honk: Jakestan, Gheb, Gargalione
Rid****ulous
Nicholas1024
Gheb_01: Badwolf
J**: FrozenMarsh
BadWolf:
Gargaglione: Rid****ulous
JakeStan: Honk, Red Ryu
Red Ruy: Gorf

Not voting:
Nicholas1024, Kary

Notes:
July's V/LA has ended.

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 13 players, it takes 7 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 1 is April 16th, at 11:59 PM.

 

[July]

I'm going to be reading and catching up over the next hour/couple hours, if it looks like I've disappeared it's because my internet keeps dying, so I have to read, copy posts, then type up my responses in a word document. That also means if I miss anything that you want me to answer or talk about, it probably just got lost in the shuffle so just let me know.

 

[July]

Watchu makin of Rid****?

At the time you posted this, I had them as null. But they’ve posted a lot between when you originally asked this question and now. I really like their #290 in response to Garg’s Honk read (which I’m also going to talk about later on in this post), and in general they’ve expressed very similar sentiments towards J and Gargaglione as what I’ve had all games so I can see town intent behind their reads. So right now they are reading town to me, no red flags or JDLRs that I’ve seen.

Alright, I reread Honk, and for the past couple pages, I noticed that pretty much all of Honk's content is an attempt to get JS and Gheb off his back. He's only focusing on directing his content to people who don't like him in attempt to make himself look better or either turn it around on them, specifically with JS, who in my opinion is not scummy.

and overall notable reads at this moment are:

I think both July and Gheb are towny

I don't like frozenmarsh's play, it's not only aggressive, but sidelining

Butt Wolf or whatever and Ryu are absent and therefore null

Kary's weird but null, I don't know how to read his ****

JS is null-town

Gorf is null to me too

and J has gotten a lot of negative attention because of the buddying up of JS, which I agree is odd, but a lot of people claim that to be a way he plays, so I'm gonna wait to formulate more on him.

Vote: Honk

I'm sorry, Honk. At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt because of soup's meta, but your play has become OMGUS and self-preservative and I don't like your slot for that.

I think Honk's a good lynch for D1

This hurts, as in this feels like straight up wagon hopping. It feels like such a forced stance, and I’ve seen this before from scum (including having done this before myself as scum) because it’s much easier to reiterate other people’s issues with a slot and then jump on the wagon rather than trying to find “scummy” things on your own and then get the spotlight shined on you if the lynch goes through and the player flips town.

Aren't you the one who literally said a few pages ago that you have so many null reads and not enough town reads? Why, then, do you feel the urge to reach that conclusion on jakestan? I was (still am) actually interested in seeing what you had to say about yours and Joeys opinion on the thread, but your drive to be a presence is going to be the thing that kills you, soup. If you're town, STOP POSTING FOR NOW. If you're scum carry on and insist that I'm wrong n **** though

I read this completely differently Gorf. I think that it’s a lot more common for scum to step back and try to keep their compose and get out of the limelight than it is for scum. Responding in thread and getting pissed off because people are pushing you and not listening to you seems like stubborn persistence, but not necessarily scummy. I especially feel this way after watching their interactions with Gheb play out and the expression of exasperation and frustration in Honk’s #241:

Gheb, I town-read you. It's not because I like you, it's because I think you're dense. A town dense, so stuck in his ways that I can't possibly fathom that a scum would be this dense, and I'd like to believe as scum you'd be more manipulative in this situation and perhaps trying to cover your ground, and honestly? I appreciate a little of you putting yourself out there and making this 'case' on me. It's townie, it's genuine. Consider it a stroke of ego on your part.

I’m convinced this is a case of frustrated, exasperated townie v. tunnelling, confident townie, and that the Honk wagon needs some serious reviewing and consideration for the people who jumped onto the easy wago because it was the best way to fake scumhunt.

Although your explanation for telling Honk to shut up and calm down makes sense as explained in #296 does make sense, and I can see how Honk’s response to it could help get a better read on him and the intent behind his reactionary postings from earlier in the game. Good good.

Riddick’s #308 is a great summary of why Garg’s readlist and wagon hopping onto Honk is a huge red flag, and Garg comes out looking worse and even more forced in his stances after the convo between him and riddick that takes place (nonexclusively) between in posts #283-308.

Kary’s posts on page 9 look like they are getting somewhere, as in he’s asking questions and giving some reads (town reads mostly...), but in terms of content it still feels so empty to me. It’s like moving the lips but no words are coming out... there’s input, but I’m not sure if scumhunting is coming out of it.

I really like Frozenmarsh’s #335 because in ONE post I got a really good understanding of what the slot’s reads are, why they are what they are, and how the hydra is going about scumhunting in this game. (This is also an example of how aggression can be used in a way that doesn’t detract from scumhunting and progressing the game forward because it actually emphasizes the scumhunting that is occurring).

@frozenmarsh751

I still see Kary as a play for today, but I could get behind a J wagon as well. As it stands right now:

Would lynch:

Kary

J

Gargaglione

Would Consider lynching:

Jakestan

Would Not Lynch:

Gorf

Gheb

Honk

Riddick

Nich

Ryu

Frozenmarsh

Didn’t even realize they were a player in this game until I started putting this list together:

Badwolf


So yeah, I’m willing to

Unvote

Vote: J

However, I’ll also say that I’m not in favor of lynching anyone until at least after Friday when we can hear from J again and hopefully get some input from Badwolf too.

Speaking of input from badwolf, he posted in #345, which left very little of an impression on me, good or bad. Still need more content here.

 

[Gargaglione]

This was kinda out of the blue. I thought you were cool with them. What changed?

Not really out of the blue, I explained that it was because his interactions with jakestan and gheb had developed into OMGUS and it seemed that Honk was just trying to get attention off their slot and direct it towards jakestan instead

 

[Gargaglione]

Ahh **** that's right I find Ruy like ACTUALLY scummy and not just **** Ruy scummy.

vote ruy

Where the **** have you even been?

What what is this? What exactly has Ryu done that is scummy to you?

 

[Gargaglione]

Do you have an opinion of FroMar now?

I really don't like that slot.
The long wall post was just calling everyone stupid one-by-one, except for people who have expressed similar opinions to his, then he just reiterated his disdain towards J and Jakestan and glorified himself as ****, expecting everyone to fall for it.

@ frozenmarsh751
Why are you so confident with ******* probably being scum?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

What what is this? What exactly has Ryu done that is scummy to you?

It was mostly his early Day play (expressed earlier in the game), but I had forgot about the suspicion and then I kinda realized I was tunneling hard on Honk. His lack of presence at that point worried me, and his recent posts don't quite assure confidence in me, so I'm gonna keep the vote there, tentative to move after I reread.

 

[Gargaglione]

This hurts, as in this feels like straight up wagon hopping. It feels like such a forced stance, and I’ve seen this before from scum (including having done this before myself as scum) because it’s much easier to reiterate other people’s issues with a slot and then jump on the wagon rather than trying to find “scummy” things on your own and then get the spotlight shined on you if the lynch goes through and the player flips town.

Those were my sincere reads. I hadn't been posting much, so I felt the need to throw in a little catch-up post

 

[rid****ulous]

@ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ♪, soup, Honk, wutever

What prompted you to put Gheb as your second strongest townread?

 

[Inglorious Retards]

@ July

Any particular reason why you're against Gorf dying toDay? Don't see what that mofo has done to deserve a town read.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Hmm, I'm probably not good at reading Kary. Would like to know who other than July and bromarsh want to lynch him and who doesn't.

 

[rid****ulous]

Garg feels genuine, albeit a bit slow on his approach. I think Rid****'s case on Garg is really rushed and uninteresting, but I also think it's townie, mostly because I feel like the points Rid**** are trying to make are so ridiculous that it wouldn't come from a town PJB would thinks in such a ridiculous manner.

Don't ask me to read July, I never get it right. It's a slot that I will never be consistent with. The feeling I get? She's smart, which is already evident. I'd like to trust her, and just basing off of her reads right now, I think she's townie enough to keep around.

I just want point out that soup basically says I'm a ridiculous moron for thinking the things I think, but July is totally smart and awesome, and her reads are great. Ask July, our freaking reads, and the reasons for having them, are almost all the same. **** you soup.

I don't think this says anything about his alignment, I just think it's interesting to note the obvious bias in the way soup perceives July and I as individuals. He still reads us the same, but she's smart and I'm ridiculous. Not "riddickulous", but "ridiculous". Man, I hate you so much now that I've noticed this.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

No, no. I'm just saying it's out there and I disagree with it, not that you're stupid. However, your efforts are townie therefore you shouldn't look at it badly, as while we don't agree, I appreciate the effort.

How has your read on Grag come along? What do you think of Jakestan?

 

[ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ♪]

No, no. I'm just saying it's out there and I disagree with it, not that you're stupid. However, your efforts are townie therefore you shouldn't look at it badly, as while we don't agree, I appreciate the effort.

How has your read on Grag come along? What do you think of Jakestan?

 

[rid****ulous]

Garg only looks worse to me, at this point. He basically just froze up, and stopped responding to me. So many questions left unanswered, I'm assuming because he has no answers. He got called out, and didn't know what to do. The few responses I did get, did nothing to alleviate my concerns with his slot.

 

[rid****ulous]

and Jakestan is still a complete non issue to me. I don't have a town read on him in any way, shape, or form, but I don't really have a scum read on him either. Like I told Ryu, he can't just stay null forever. If he does, then I'll deal with him.

I don't hate the idea of lynching J tho, which I think sheds some light on Jake. I still think Garg is, individually, a scummier slot.

 

[Gargaglione]

Garg only looks worse to me, at this point. He basically just froze up, and stopped responding to me. So many questions left unanswered, I'm assuming because he has no answers. He got called out, and didn't know what to do. The few responses I did get, did nothing to alleviate my concerns with his slot.

I was busy all day yesterday except for a little bit last night. I havent had the time, I didnt "freeze up"

 

[Gargaglione]

Well isn't that convenient for you.


Ok, i'll give you that for now

What if I told you that Honk's vote was not omgus? Would your opinion change?

You are advocating killing this slot. Do you really think "he omgus'd" is a case worthy of lynching someone?


Wait a minute, did you just straight up admit that your read on on jakestan is completely random, and unwarranted? He is null-town, or is he really just playing null? Which is it?

Sounds to me like someone made a fake, mostly agreeable readlist, and threw a bunch of random reads on it.


What exactly is it that you're waiting for?

This is the last post you addressed me in, no?

No the null-town read is opposite of random, it was formulated on my own. Believe it or not, as a matured human being, i have intuition. I expressed this earlier, I never said "random".

No? Why would you telling me that it isnt omgus mean anything? It's omgus to me, again, sorry for formulating my own opinions

I already explained to you the list

And as for not pushing fromo, you have other scumreads other than me too, right? Why arent you pushing every one of them?

 

[frozenmarsh751]

It's literally the opposite. Orbo hasn't even logged into the hydra account yet.

welp

you know what they say about assumptions... something about me looking like an ass etc.

I'll have to go over your slot again with a "this is ****ing PJB you idiot" lens but generally I like your slot's play so you can stay in your current tier for now

@ frozenmarsh751
Why are you so confident with ******* probably being scum?

Bottom (Scum) Tier

Inglorious/Honk (I think one is scum and the other is town, not sure which is which, leaning inglor scum)

If this sent the message that I was confident that inglor is scum then something went wrong here lol

I'm not confident that that slot is scum. I just think that there is scum between Honk/Inglor and I'm leaning Inglor atm

 

[rid****ulous]

This is the last post you addressed me in, no?

No the null-town read is opposite of random, it was formulated on my own. Believe it or not, as a matured human being, i have intuition. I expressed this earlier, I never said "random".

You claimed, in the post I quoted, that Jakestan was actually just plain Null. Yet you insist that you're of the opinion that he's null-town. Then you justify that your read is your own, because "you think he's null-town, when he's obviously just plain null". You don't see the issue with that?

No? Why would you telling me that it isnt omgus mean anything? It's omgus to me, again, sorry for formulating my own opinions

explain to me what you think "omgus" means, please.

I already explained to you the list

and I was not satisfied with your explanation whatsoever. I don't think you've actually explained very much at all.

And as for not pushing fromo, you have other scumreads other than me too, right? Why arent you pushing every one of them?

Believe it or not, I don't!

The only person I have much suspicion of, besides you, is J. I already made that push, It's done. J isn't even here anymore for me to talk to, but he actually explained his thought process to me already. I don't like it that much, but it's there.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

I just think that there is scum between Honk/Inglor and I'm leaning Inglor atm

Which is essentially equal to you being pretty confident I'm scum, which is what Garg has pointed out.

 

[Gargaglione]

Believe it or not, I don't!

The only person I have much suspicion of, besides you, is J. I already made that push, It's done. J isn't even here anymore for me to talk to, but he actually explained his thought process to me already. I don't like it that much, but it's there.

Whatever man, youre a brick wall.
For example, fromo and july said they read me as scum. Neither of them have pushed me. They dont see me as a priority.

People push who they see as priority, not everyone they see as scum.

I see Honk as priority at this moment, that's where my votes at.

 

[Gargaglione]

JS is null-town

Oh and @ rid****ulous
I clearly said null-town in that "fake" list of mine, not just null.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

And ask yourself this, why would I just randomly hold different stances on people like jakestan when they're really just playing null?

I accept your apology.

 

[rid****ulous]

Aww man, I ****ed it up

I accept your apology.

 

[rid****ulous]

You use the phrase, "I just randomly hold different stances"

and "he's really just playing null."

2 things I already told you that you said, quoted to you, asked you about it, and you denied it. Do you now see my issue with your responses? You're not being consistent. You're flailing.

 

[Gargaglione]

Aww man, I ****ed it up

I didnt type the "-town" there but you know what i meant. It's null in general and he seems sincere to me.