Fixing Pits Horrible Rep.

[Ryos4]

Okay as we all pit mains know. Pit has a horrible rep in all standards. No matter what site i go to, all the noobs insist that pit is a either a noob, cheap, or spammy character. As soon as i say i main pit. They just go off on me about how "insert random crap here," pit is.

Even after a beating is given to them they have something to say about him. I was even told that i spammed angel rings because i used it twice against a falco player who sh blaster ever 5 seconds. I even got complaints about using arrows against a campy zelda who hid in a corner and used dins fire while waiting for me to approach, probably because i wasnt walking into the smashes like all his other nooby opponents.

I may be a lil bias about pit but i dont believe that he is the most noob friendly, cheap, or spammy out of the cast.

Anyway, does anyone have any idea on a way to give pit a better rep? Im getting sick of everyones hate for pit, and having it directed at me. As i am sure all of u are as well. So what is a pit to do?

I propose a list of every character, with what makes them either more noob, cheap, or spammy.

 

[Hayang]

If they are complaining about spam like you say, I'm guessing they're not very great at brawl.
So if you can, for the short term go own them using everything but Angel/Arrows, use their character and spam the same move back or play their character differently and still win, or MK their *****.

As for in general there isn't much we can do. Low levels of the metagame will be inundated with plenty of pits that only use B and B>. The stereotype will carry on to intermediate-levels as well, but past that I don't really think anyone will complain.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Honestly, there's nothing you can really do to sway people's opinions. Maybe if people start playing Pit more intelligently, it would reflect that Pit is entirely capable of competing with the best of the best without the spamming of his arrows.

 

[Afropony]

Does it really matter if noobs think that all pits do is spam B?

If no then there's no problem in fact the more noobs who think of Pit badly means that they won't play as Pit.

If yes then just say everything spammy they did playing against.

 

[Alopex]

Pit will always be hated.

I know this because my main sparring partner is a Pit main, and uses Pit almost exclusively.
He plays an intelligent Pit, does well in competitions, and makes great use of the character.

Even with all this, Pit is still annoying. My matches with him, even when I win, are always frustrating.

Why is he annoying? Because in the right hands he is a dreadfully effective character with very few bad match-ups.

Pit has everything you could want in a character, and people will always hate him for it. They will hate him because their own character doesn't have what he has. They will hate him because he's strong on offense and defense and can swap between those roles seamlessly. They will hate him because, eventually, Pit will climb much higher on the tier list.

Being a Pit player myself, I know what it's like to be on both sides of the match-up, so I know why he's loved and why he's hated.


Being a Pit player, you'll just have to get used to it. Hey, at least you aren't a Metaknight, right?

 

[Ryos4]

I didnt really think people were still up. lol. But i kinda think pit has alot of bad match ups in generals. But i dont really believe in the idea of a bad match up. It just means ull have to change ur playing style to suit the person you are fighting, atleast for pit. But then again i will always feel bad for a link vs a falco. lol.

As for a tier list. lol. I dont really see how that matters so much. Every character has a potential to move to the top of this list. But really there isnt a point to it.

Also ive been told by a campy zelda that he rather play a snake or a meta knight then a pit or a toon link. For obvious reasons. Snake or meta is just easier to camp against. lol.

Anyway i still dont think there is anything pit can do that some other character can do better. Well aside from mirror shield. Thats just pwnage. lol.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

I believe M2K himself said that he'd rather face a Meta Knight than a Pit. Regarding bad match ups, Pit actually does not have many. Maybe 5 or 6 at the most, the rest being neutrals and advantages. He does pretty well against the Top Tiers bar Meta Knight and Game & Watch to a lesser extent; an advantage over Snake and Dedede, neutral with Falco and R.O.B. In High Tier, he really only has trouble with Marth. The rest are in his favor or neutral in my opinion. He definitely deserves a higher spot with his potential, at least Top of High Tier in my opinion.

 

[Afropony]

M2K would rather face another metaknight over nearly any other charcter because he is used to playing against them. And if you know a character well enough it'll be easier to expect what they will do next. Making the match much easier.

 

[Ryos4]

That and all metas fight generally the same, charge and attack as fast as possible. While pit can have tons of different fighting styles thx to all of his ATs.

 

[Admiral Pit]

There's nothing much we can do to boost up Pit's reputation. He's already somewhere in the High tier list as of now.
You haven't been the only one who was called a spammer...

Many people called me noobish, cheap, and a spammer for using Pit. Even when I beat them, they still continue to call poor Pit cheap and noobish. There are times when I chose not to shoot a single arrow in some matches, and still beat some opponents, like this AIB spammy Fox/Falco/Zelda/Lucas/DK player named CRUEL... that useless overconfident good for nothin.

People really think I'm just gonna approach and attack head on. A smart Pit will use his arrows correctly considering how they play a big role in Pit's style, aswell as it being one of Pit's options to gimp opponents.

I find it ironic that I hear more complaints about Pit spam rather than Metaknight's "Cheapness" (I would say overpoweredness, but it doesn't sound right nor is it as accurate). Many complaints about Pit go towards me considering how I'm a good Pit player, fought many stereotypes who don't like Pit in the first place, beat them, and they complain about Pit a lot more. Some opponents I faced complain when they lose to both noobish spammy Pits, and Actual good Pits.

I suppose Pit's style is to be annoying of somewhat, but still, he isn't noobish or cheap, and it's not a reason to hate and stereotype him. But I don't think we can do much to help Pit out. There will be more new players coming around. Knowing their nature, some of them will be common spammers, and many will look towards Pit... Many spammers abuse Pit already as it is... Why our poor angel?

Let's see what Pit has:
-A fast-moving spammable controllable projectile, quite versatile
-2 Different reflectors that do more than just reflect
-His Bow that shoots the arrows, and when detached, becomes 2 small blades
-3 mid-air jumps
-A gliding ability. He is the fastest glider
-Great recovery
-Excellent Gimping potential
-Great Ledgecamping capability
-Great Edgeguarding capability
-Great at pressuing Shields, mainly rapid A, Angel Ring, and N-air
-Small F-throw Chaingrab which works best on large heavy chars, capped at about 40%
-A D-tilt Spike
-Great aerial Game
-Mirror Shield: Certain projectiles that get reflected by this will be sent back at a faster speed than normal
Mirror Shield can also be used to gimp certain recoveries, and Metaknight is one of the vulnerable ones.
When used on the ground, right before the Ping sound, it gives Pit super Armor Frames
-Angel Ring Reflects as well as do damage, plus makes a good edgeguard.
-Has a lot of ATs, though they really dont boost Pit's performance much, though gives the player more options
-Racks up damage quickly
-Very Versatile and can hold his own against many opponents with his multiple weapons

Pit can be played in many different ways from offensive to defensive, or even being supportive in 2v2s (Healing a Lucas or Ness ally with TA on, Reflector Shield in front of his friends to protect him/her from projectiles)

The only thing we could probably do is have great Pit players like Sagemoon, EPF, Rogue (I didnt mispell his name), and other Amazing Pits represent Pit, and hopefully some greatly determined Pit followers will get strong too, so that they also can encourage others to take Pit much more seriously.

But seriously, Pit shouldn't and doesn't deserve all of this hate. Unfortunately, the common spamming noobs give Pit a bad reputation in the first place. But at least we love our young angel, and know how cool, cute and amazing he is, as well as Palutena being proud of us who are actually trying hard.

*phew* and it took me about 35 minutes to write all of this.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Pit is a really amazing character, he just requires some finesse.

Oh and Admiral, I know CRUEL, don't even bother with him. I **** constantly, and he sill johns about it. Leave him to be arrogant, for it will be his own down fall.

 

[kown]

you honestly shouldn't care what others think...otherwise you will never use pit to his potential.

 

[Alopex]

But i kinda think pit has alot of bad match ups in generals. But i dont really believe in the idea of a bad match up. It just means ull have to change ur playing style to suit the person you are fighting, atleast for pit.

Pit has, to my count, only 3 REAL disadvantageous matches: MK, G&W, and Marth. Everyone else is neutral (including Olimar, Wario, and Lucario) or advantageous (King Dedede and Snake, for example).

So for Pit, yeah, a bad match-up doesn't mean much, because he doesn't have many. And of the ones he does have, only MK is actually terrible. So yeah, Pit is less affected by match-ups than most characters. But even so, you have to believe in bad match-ups, because they will dictate the game. If you aren't aware of the disadvantage your character is in, you will lose. Trying being a Falco against a Zelda.

As for a tier list. lol. I dont really see how that matters so much. Every character has a potential to move to the top of this list. But really there isnt a point to it.

Sorry man, but tiers are real and they matter. Captain Falcon will never ever ever ever be top tier in this game no matter what happens. You need to be aware of the tier list, because it will dictate who you are most likely to face in a tournament, and so you need to make sure that you get A LOT of practice against the top tier characters. If you want to have a chance of winning that tourney, you need to be able to take out the top tier characters, because you will see a lot of them there.

Anyway i still dont think there is anything pit can do that some other character can do better. Well aside from mirror shield. Thats just pwnage. lol.

Don't underestimate Pit. Admiral Bowser's post covered pretty well all the things Pit has going for him, and there is no other character that has as much as Pit. The only reason Pit isn't top tier is because the top tier characters all have a few small things that just work almost like "I Win" buttons.
MK - B, UpB, Aerials
Snake - Ftilt, Uptilt
Dedede - Grabs, Bair
G&W - Bair, Dthrow, Dsmash
Falco - Chaingrab, Dair

Pit has a lot, but nothing that he has is extremely powerful. It's the extremely powerful things like G&W's Bair or Dedede's chaingrabs that put the character up in the tiers. (Shine in Melee)

What this means though, is that Pit has less bad match-ups than those characters, because he doesn't have any crutches. And that is why Pit is hated. He doesn't have a crutch. Every other character does. Pit however, as Admiral Bowser said, is versatile to the max.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Well said. Pit is clearly Top of High Tier material to me. He reminds me of Marth in that he doesn't have many bad match-ups but has nothing outstanding enough to be in Top Tier. Like Marth, he is a very solid character. One of the most balanced in the game in my opinion. Pit has just the right mix of what I look for in a good character. However, I could see Pit scraping bottom of Top Tier if his tourney results improve. R.O.B. doesn't scream Top Tier to me, but he is classified as such. That is where Pit belongs at his full potential in my opinion.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

There's nothing much we can do to boost up Pit's reputation. He's already somewhere in the High tier list as of now.
You haven't been the only one who was called a spammer...

Many people called me noobish, cheap, and a spammer for using Pit. Even when I beat them, they still continue to call poor Pit cheap and noobish. There are times when I chose not to shoot a single arrow in some matches, and still beat some opponents, like this AIB spammy Fox/Falco/Zelda/Lucas/DK player named CRUEL... that useless overconfident good for nothin.

People really think I'm just gonna approach and attack head on. A smart Pit will use his arrows correctly considering how they play a big role in Pit's style, aswell as it being one of Pit's options to gimp opponents.

I find it ironic that I hear more complaints about Pit spam rather than Metaknight's "Cheapness" (I would say overpoweredness, but it doesn't sound right nor is it as accurate). Many complaints about Pit go towards me considering how I'm a good Pit player, fought many stereotypes who don't like Pit in the first place, beat them, and they complain about Pit a lot more. Some opponents I faced complain when they lose to both noobish spammy Pits, and Actual good Pits.

I suppose Pit's style is to be annoying of somewhat, but still, he isn't noobish or cheap, and it's not a reason to hate and stereotype him. But I don't think we can do much to help Pit out. There will be more new players coming around. Knowing their nature, some of them will be common spammers, and many will look towards Pit... Many spammers abuse Pit already as it is... Why our poor angel?

Let's see what Pit has:
-A fast-moving spammable controllable projectile, quite versatile
-2 Different reflectors that do more than just reflect
-His Bow that shoots the arrows, and when detached, becomes 2 small blades
-3 mid-air jumps
-A gliding ability. He is the fastest glider
-Great recovery
-Excellent Gimping potential
-Great Ledgecamping capability
-Great Edgeguarding capability
-Great at pressuing Shields, mainly rapid A, Angel Ring, and N-air
-Small F-throw Chaingrab which works best on large heavy chars, capped at about 40%
-A D-tilt Spike
-Great aerial Game
-Mirror Shield: Certain projectiles that get reflected by this will be sent back at a faster speed than normal
Mirror Shield can also be used to gimp certain recoveries, and Metaknight is one of the vulnerable ones.
When used on the ground, right before the Ping sound, it gives Pit super Armor Frames
-Angel Ring Reflects as well as do damage, plus makes a good edgeguard.
-Has a lot of ATs, though they really dont boost Pit's performance much, though gives the player more options
-Racks up damage quickly
-Very Versatile and can hold his own against many opponents with his multiple weapons

Pit can be played in many different ways from offensive to defensive, or even being supportive in 2v2s (Healing a Lucas or Ness ally with TA on, Reflector Shield in front of his friends to protect him/her from projectiles)

The only thing we could probably do is have great Pit players like Sagemoon, EPF, Rogue (I didnt mispell his name), and other Amazing Pits represent Pit, and hopefully some greatly determined Pit followers will get strong too, so that they also can encourage others to take Pit much more seriously.

But seriously, Pit shouldn't and doesn't deserve all of this hate. Unfortunately, the common spamming noobs give Pit a bad reputation in the first place. But at least we love our young angel, and know how cool, cute and amazing he is, as well as Palutena being proud of us who are actually trying hard.

*phew* and it took me about 35 minutes to write all of this.

Yeah, I'm always called an arrows spammer just cause I hit them with all the arrows I shoot at them when they are just lazily falling back down after a smash attack... It's so tired of hearing that. >_< JUST SHIELD AND AERIAL DODGE IF YOU HAVE SUCH A BIG PROBLEM DODGING THEM PEOPLE!

 

[PKNintendo]

Yeah, well I think people have decently matured to the point that they think Pit is cheap (not broken) seriously, ignore them or punch them in the face. Either way works.

 

[Rogue Pit]

People in friendlies and average scrubs opinions don't count. Pit is belittled mainly because his WoI can be gimped. People at tourneys like Apolex said hate him because of what he has. I've experienced that first hand, Friendly Biweekly tourney and everyone said they hated people, and i went and exclained that i didn't spam. Apparently the reason for the resentment has nothing to do with spam. Spam's hatred is hated on wifi where it's most powerful and mostly used by players with the IQ of a meatloaf. His "Rep" is horrible due to lack of skilled players using him. To "Fix" this Pit needs a good representative to show up at the tournament scene and do some major damage. But opinions don't mean anything, its facts that show results and that earns respect.

 

[Master Knight DH]

(I hope I'm not necroposting.)

I believe M2K himself said that he'd rather face a Meta Knight than a Pit. Regarding bad match ups, Pit actually does not have many. Maybe 5 or 6 at the most, the rest being neutrals and advantages. He does pretty well against the Top Tiers bar Meta Knight and Game & Watch to a lesser extent; an advantage over Snake and Dedede, neutral with Falco and R.O.B. In High Tier, he really only has trouble with Marth. The rest are in his favor or neutral in my opinion. He definitely deserves a higher spot with his potential, at least Top of High Tier in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more. That's why I am proud to not be a GD arrow spammer.

 

[Onomanic]

I don't think his rep will be fixed. He was marked spammy as soon as noobs on wifi repeatedly hit the B button. But he's not cheap or spammy. He's good.

 

[Kitamerby]

Here's a question I've been wondering. Why would a character with by far the best ledgegame and camp game be angry when people call them out on it?

Why are you so angry that your character has the best camp game?

Why do you attempt to deny or push that tactic aside?

Pit's a spammy ledgecamper with amazing defensive and offstage options. Shouldn't you stop acting like it's a bad thing for people to notice? <<

 

[Admiral Pit]

For one, we got feelings. It's like we're sensitive.

For 2, Im not mad that Pit has the best Camp game, it helps against some annoying opponents, like Meta and Marth.

For 3, I won't pass that tactic aside. It helps me against cheap old Metaknight.

And 4, His ledgecamping isnt bad. It's unique if u ask me. I love that young angel <3

 

[yummynbeefy]

i will always feel bad for a link vs a falco. lol.

not for my link u wont

 

[Ryos4]

yeah yeah. u say that now. lol. even if ur a good link, once u get caught by falco at low%s it can instantly lead to a death. So if a falco wants to be cheap ur pretty screwed already.

Any poof to ur "amazing link."

 

[Undrdog]

First off, Pit's edge game is awful. If you don't already know this as fact, study it before denying it.

Also people, use your brain. Read between the lines, especially about what M2K said about rather facing a MK then a Pit...

People wonder why I stopped posting in here regularly. -_-

 

[Tujex]

I've had the complaints shot at me to. He was my main when the game came out, before I switched to DK (was my main in the original and Melee), and that was before I learned of his arrows and Angel Rings,...and I still got called cheap, spammy, and an overall newb.

 

[Nitrix]

Pit can be respected more, but people will always hate facing him. You can improve his rep by beating good people with him.

 

[Apollo317]

you honestly shouldn't care what others think...otherwise you will never use pit to his potential.

Kown, how are you so sexy and smart? You are always the voice of reason on these boards but it never seems like anyone listens to you.

And I have never had my Pit called nooby, spammy, or anything bad. I think the reason that there is a problem with this is because everybody on the Pit boards spends more time trying to say that Pit is good then sitting down at their Wii and making him good. Everybody is saying that Pit has this untapped potential. Quit speculating and start working! He does have untapped potential, but it can't stay untapped forever!

IMO I have never seen a Pit use wingdashing correctly. Even Sagemoon (who is a far better player then me) dosen't use it to it's potential.

IMO I have never seen a Pit use arrow looping to its realistic potential.

And forget about the ATs, most people don't know how to use his standard moveset. Especially the utilt. If the sword hits it is tied for the FASTEST move in the game and it almost ALWAYS stabs sheilds. And then there is the incredible uses of b-reversal and special recoil with his arrows. Anyways, I could go on but I won't. Pit will have a bad rep until there are more then a few Pit mains that know how to use him.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yeah, the hateing on Pit made me drop him about a month ago. I kinda hated myself for it. So I took him back up. Before then he had been my main since March 9th. But yeah, the constant complaining about Pit really gets to you after a while.

So, I would like to see some other good Pits, any takers? I've never fought a Pit equal to my skill with him. :/

 

[Coffee™]

First off, Pit's edge game is awful. If you don't already know this as fact, study it before denying it.

What makes Pit's edge game so terrible? From what i've seen most characters have a ton of trouble with it.

 

[Crystanium]

I recall this one time when I was in a free-for-all. I was Pit. There was a Snake and a Lucas player. Snake was defeated, so it was me and Lucas. As Lucas was trying to return, I used my Angel Ring infinitely, because Lucas was trying to return, and he was DI'ing forward, but nothing was happening, except that he gained more damage. I eventually stopped. I was then later told that I was a spammer, even though I only used Angel Ring twice in the whole match.

 

[Crystanium]

What makes Pit's edge game so terrible? From what i've seen most characters have a ton of trouble with it.

I take edge-game and edge-guard to be two different things. I coined the term, "edge-game" and "edge-gaming" a while back. I created a thread about edge-guarding, edge-hogging, and edge-gaming at the Brawl Tactical Discussion. I don't know if UndrDog is using the term the same way I would, though.

Some edge-games for Pit are as follows:

• Releasing from the edge and doing a jump and fire Palutena's Arrow at the opponent who is on the stage.
• Releasing from the edge and doing a jump to perform u-air.
• Releasing from the edge and jumping up to perform either f-air or b-air.

I really can't find anything great about these. His u-air approach is good, but only if your opponent is right there. Besides, after performing that, using another jump to grab the edge again can be risky.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

I take edge-game and edge-guard to be two different things. I coined the term, "edge-game" and "edge-gaming" a while back. I created a thread about edge-guarding, edge-hogging, and edge-gaming at the Brawl Tactical Discussion. I don't know if UndrDog is using the term the same way I would, though.

Some edge-games for Pit are as follows:

• Releasing from the edge and doing a jump and fire Palutena's Arrow at the opponent who is on the stage.
• Releasing from the edge and doing a jump to perform u-air.
• Releasing from the edge and jumping up to perform either f-air or b-air.

I really can't find anything great about these. His u-air approach is good, but only if your opponent is right there. Besides, after performing that, using another jump to grab the edge again can be risky.

You can still regrab with that same jump after up-aerial if you do it quickly enough.

 

[Undrdog]

What makes Pit's edge game so terrible? From what i've seen most characters have a ton of trouble with it.

Actually you're right. I'm just used to fighting Samus, who has the most insane magnet hands I have ever seen. But still, Pit needs to use his WoI to guarantee a grab on the edge. It can be dangerous against a smart player or a player with a fast, damage dealing Up-B.

 

[Nitrix]

People think that Pit is all arrows. If we can show that his aerials and smashes are good too then we will definately turn some heads.

Actually you're right. I'm just used to fighting Samus, who has the most insane magnet hands I have ever seen.

Magnet hands? What do you mean?

 

[Undrdog]

Magnet Hands is where a character warps to the edge when grabbing on. Some character can do this from insane distances. Pit is far from one of them.

 

[cj.Shark]

samus has z-air which is a better edge grabber than WoI so yeah undr.

 

[Undrdog]

Nah, Pit has a big advantage when Samus tries to Zair. It's really the Magnet Hands that are the killer.

 

[Coffee™]

Actually you're right. I'm just used to fighting Samus, who has the most insane magnet hands I have ever seen. But still, Pit needs to use his WoI to guarantee a grab on the edge. It can be dangerous against a smart player or a player with a fast, damage dealing Up-B.

What kind of situation are you talking about exactly? If your ledgecamping, why would "magnet hands" be an issue? Your opponent should be on the stage anyway. and if that is the case you shouldn't really be threatened when using Up-B after you initially release the edge.

 

[Undrdog]

A smart opponent, if they need to hit you, would fall off the edge and airdodge through the area where Pit is. Then use their Up-B the moment Pit loses his invincibility on the edge. Pit will either be hit on the edge, or be hit while renewing his invincibility by letting go, WoIing, and trying to grab the edge.

That's just one method. The easiest method is to not care that Pit is on the edge. Not like Pit can do anything more then shoot arrows between edge-grabs.

 

[Coffee™]

A smart opponent, if they need to hit you, would fall off the edge and airdodge through the area where Pit is. Then use their Up-B the moment Pit loses his invincibility on the edge. Pit will either be hit on the edge, or be hit while renewing his invincibility by letting go, WoIing, and trying to grab the edge.

Yea that works, but it depends on the characters Up-B as well as the persons timing, because if they mess up in some way they might have just lost a stock.

That's just one method. The easiest method is to not care that Pit is on the edge. Not like Pit can do anything more then shoot arrows between edge-grabs.

Well, if Pit ever gets a lead in a match and he proceeds to start ledgecamping, you can't help but care. Either way you make it sound like if shooting Arrows from the edge is bad, what ledgecamping character on the edge is going to cause more trouble than a Pit?