Fire and Lightning 2: DC Comics vs Pokemon Conquest Game over DC Comics Wins!

[Make it Rain!]

Who should cop me dabuz or the real cop oh and no playing with self preservation in mind =/= doing what you can to make sure town doesn't ML you. When you roll town, you think I gotta find scum. When you roll scum... You ****ing think I gotta stay alive...

surprise town doesn't wanna die either and be a detriment to team

pls gorf think

 

[Fandangox]

I'm saying it's not situationally scummy because it's not on a whole scummy--there's reasons for town and scum to do it and I don't believe that you can wholly detect which way it leans without someone massively ****ing up. If you can dig into dabunz's posts and show me that he's lying scum instead of the ****ing cop, I'll forgo every push and every direction I may want to go based on my reread over the night phase and join you on this wagon until he dies. That's how much I doubt you can tell the difference.

Answer me this then:

Why would Dabuz, considering how he has been playing this game, claim cop so casually when he is about to die in D1?

 

[Gargaglione]

yes strawman my **** please

At what point did that have to do with insults and at what point did that stop having to do with the fact that self-preservational play isn't scummy but null?


how the flying **** is that self-preservational?

Did you actually read? Didn't you notice that none of his preceding questions had nothing to do with that final post? Isn't odd that he had to change the apparent intent of his questions in order to appear to be doing things, despite it being entirely incoherent?

And oh please, for your own sake, cut it out with the edginess.

 

[Top Deck BLS]

surprise my list is about the same minus gorf

i don't wanna lynch hando because potato is randomly deflecting to it but there's a good shot hando's scum just not with potato

i haven't trusted potato since his entry and he's had various little things that just set me off. his approach to dabunz in these past few pages finally gave me something solid to justify it

wouldn't mind lynching hollownote in general, don't like his approach to us, his vote, nor his adamant knowledge both dabunz and hando are town

The last line is exactly why I'm blown away by the preference for a Hando lynch.

 

[Gargaglione]

idk in this game if you roll scum you could be like

i gotta find the other scum and look town

anyways reading what ive missed

... K

 

[Make it Rain!]

****.

I got this vibe when you started asking people what they would do if your lynch was absolutely unobtainable.

Now there's a chance this is a scum play to stay alive, but we don't want our real cop to CC in that case so there's no way to verify.

Vote: Handorin

Why didn't you back off then if you got these vibes? Why didn't you at least take them into account?

We go for a fall-back on Hando. If dabuz is legit he will most likely die during the Night. If he's not there is no harm in him living past Day 1 and then we'll know. We don't want to out our real cop if he is scum, and we don't want to risk lynching him if he's town.

And then

Meant to say something to that.

If dabuz IS cop and scum choose not to kill him for that WIFOM, he gets free Night results.

Win win.

you just launch

I'll lay it out for you guys for why we should not be lynching dabuz after that claim

If he's Town

• we could lynch him which means we've wasted our lynch on a townie and we've killed our cop
• we can not lynch him and both scum teams incap him and he'll die
• we can not lynch him and one or none of the scumteams incap him which means he gets a night result and is still alive to share it. We still don't lynch him

If he's Scum

• we could lynch him and we lucked out and got a lynch on scum who was fake claiming cop
• we could not lynch him and he lives to see another Day and is forced to fake a night result

Honestly there is no reason to lynch him now that he has committed to that claim.

into some

If he's scum and the other team incaps him, then we will have him and another player up for uncapping.

If you guys are worried about him at that point we can just uncap the other player and let him die.

This wouldn't be letting him slip through our fingers by any means

massively mechanical bull****

Yeah but there is no downside to putting the lynch off. We'll get free night results if scum leaves him alive, and if they don't we can stop worrying about this WIFOM.

that has no bearing

Garg, listen to me for a moment.

If dabuz is scum, and we let him live, and he is alive toMorrow and untouched, we don't lose out on anything. We can still lynch him no problem, and he'll probably be incapped by the other scumteam so we'll even be able to just choose not to uncap him and not even waste a lynch on him.

And we don't lose out on anything by leaving him alive that extra phase.

However, on the chance that he may actually be legit (the claim would explain why he started the game trying to play safe and was generally trying to appease people since he wanted to stay under the radar), leaving him alive guarantees that if he is still alive toMorrow because the scumteams didn't go for him, we get the use of his night action for the Night and learn valuable information

based on his dabuz read

A cop claim literally guarantees that dabuz is not living to LyLo no matter what happens. Chances are one of two things will happen:

1. if he's town both teams will incap him because they can't afford to risk him getting results that help town and being able to share them
2. if he's scum one of the scumteams will incap him and we can just let him die while we save the player his scumteam incaps

what the flying ****

This is so mechanical in its basis. He randomly quips at the beginning he thought dabunz might've been town cop but that seemingly didn't stop him from making comments like this:

Raz won't join because he doesn't want to bus his scummate unless he needs to and he's probably gonna stall the deadline

based on his read of dabunz. Yet once dabunz claims, he drops everything to propose some mechanical bull**** on how we should handle dabunz that is not at all based on his read nor how other people read him and instead tries to push a vote onto Hando because it's easy. I don't like this at all. It can be completely independent from dabunz's alignment because Potato doesn't have to be his scummate to make a play like this. It's just ****ing gross because as soon as dabunz claims he throws everything out the window to lynch Hando despite the fact that he was massively scumreading the player on the drop of a hat. This is how a scummer would handle this claim.

 

[Top Deck BLS]

Answer me this then:

Why would Dabuz, considering how he has been playing this game, claim cop so casually when he is about to die in D1?

Why would you claim when you're about to die? Hmm. Let me think. Maybe to not get lynched? Should I actually get into this again or am I going to have Gorf trying to lynch me for explaining it with Circus not in the game?

 

[Gova]

just gonna respond to this because it's easier than trimming

i feel like this is the second time i've seen you throw something back at the dabuz wagon about it not being good. but instead of just doing what you do, let's actually play this game:

compare the actual wagons. There are no votes like Hollow's or Hando's on dabuz's wagon. The worst vote is Scary's. I don't agree with a lot of the basis for that wagon because I felt that basis has been constantly shifting (rather than growing) since the wagon's start but that doesn't at all mean votes like theirs are like vote's like Hando's or Hollow's at all, nor do I even feel they were like dabuz's just before his unvote.

i agree; you're right on this

i just wanted to draw attention to the wagon because i didn't like the basis for it either

also you and drew have been eerily similar in conclusion throughout the game.

not sure if this is good or bad

he hasn't been here so how could i draw similar conclusions to him



anyways to anyone who was in F&L1, did the CC get a n0 action?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I think N0 is JUST for incaps.

 

[Make it Rain!]

anyways to anyone who was in F&L1, did the CC get a n0 action?

this is what i thought and i asked sheepses--he seemed to agree

 

[Top Deck BLS]

based on his read of dabunz. Yet once dabunz claims, he drops everything to propose some mechanical bull**** on how we should handle dabunz that is not at all based on his read nor how other people read him and instead tries to push a vote onto Hando because it's easy. I don't like this at all. It can be completely independent from dabunz's alignment because Potato doesn't have to be his scummate to make a play like this. It's just ****ing gross because as soon as dabunz claims he throws everything out the window to lynch Hando despite the fact that he was massively scumreading the player on the drop of a hat. This is how a scummer would handle this claim.

Is it how Kantrip handles a claim though? I don't see why scummer Kantrip doesn't stay on the wagon UNLESS he's Dabuz scum mate while he has Gorf still pushing it.

 

[Top Deck BLS]

this is what i thought and i asked sheepses--he seemed to agree

+1. I think it's just incaps.

 

[Gargaglione]

@ Make it Rain!

Alright, then, you seem upset with just about everything that's going on, so please tell me:

What exactly do you believe would be the very best course of action. What's your ideal scenario with this Day?

 

[Gova]

ugh, i guess ill go back and check F&L1

if there was a n0 action, dabuz is probably lying

either way, i agree with incapping him lynching him tomorrow if he's alive;

or today if people still want it

 

[Top Deck BLS]

Is it how Kantrip handles a claim though? I don't see why scummer Kantrip doesn't stay on the wagon UNLESS he's Dabuz scum mate while he has Gorf still pushing it.

Nvm. I realize it could be CC bait.

 

[Gova]

wow am bad at engrish

i agree with not uncapping him or lynching him if he's not incapped

 

[Top Deck BLS]

My main issue with him is that he claimed cop and not comparison cop which I would assume is what's in this set-up.

 

[Make it Rain!]

Did you actually read? Didn't you notice that none of his preceding questions had nothing to do with that final post? Isn't odd that he had to change the apparent intent of his questions in order to appear to be doing things, despite it being entirely incoherent?

I read it backwards because I didn't remember that line. Question still stands. He was arguing about Soup's actions and why they didn't appear scummy then backpedaled off because you were treating him like a child. I don't see self-preservational intent, I see him recognizing not getting anywhere and dropping the argument.

 

[Make it Rain!]

My main issue with him is that he claimed cop and not comparison cop which I would assume is what's in this set-up.

That's my issue, though, again, I think Sheepses said comp cop goes n0 as well and his lack of result is questionable to me. Would like sheepses to confirm once he returns.

 

[Fandangox]

Why would you claim when you're about to die? Hmm. Let me think. Maybe to not get lynched? Should I actually get into this again or am I going to have Gorf trying to lynch me for explaining it with Circus not in the game?

But you are claiming COP. There's two scumteams. HE WOULD GET NIGHTKILLED ANYWAY. What purpose does it serve to delay your D1 kill into what will most likely be a Night 1 kill? Aside from drawing the nightkill to yourself and having scum change targets for the night?

Like the above is a very good reason to do this, but only works if the claimer CORRECTLY GUESSES everyone will just go and act with the mindset of him telling the truth.

This would only make sense if it were D2, or D3 or so forth, where you had used your role already and at least have something for town to look into if you get nightkilled next phase.

 

[Make it Rain!]

@ Make it Rain!

Alright, then, you seem upset with just about everything that's going on, so please tell me:

What exactly do you believe would be the very best course of action. What's your ideal scenario with this Day?

Lynching Potato or HollowNote should I not be able to get him.

 

[Gargaglione]

I read it backwards because I didn't remember that line. Question still stands. He was arguing about Soup's actions and why they didn't appear scummy then backpedaled off because you were treating him like a child. I don't see self-preservational intent, I see him recognizing not getting anywhere and dropping the argument.

Nowhere in his preceding questions did he address his supposed "actual" intent. It was neither inferred nor implied. If you do find it being made evident in his preceding questions, please show me.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Is it how Kantrip handles a claim though? I don't see why scummer Kantrip doesn't stay on the wagon UNLESS he's Dabuz scum mate while he has Gorf still pushing it.

OH YOU'RE SO SCUMMY FOR THIS OMG YOU'RE ACTUALLY SPECULATING PEOPLE MAY BE SCUM TOGETHER HOLY ****.

Oh and no this isn't serious, this is for the people who actually thought it was scummy for me to wonder about Hando and dabuz' interaction when dabuz switched to Hando. Ya know, for those who couldn't catch onto it.

 

[Gargaglione]

Lynching Potato or HollowNote should I not be able to get him.

Alright, you've expressed that you don't think dabuz is scummy, but what makes HollowNote a priority over Handorin to you?

Also, can you give me a briefing on your Potato stance?

 

[Fandangox]

based on his read of dabunz. Yet once dabunz claims, he drops everything to propose some mechanical bull**** on how we should handle dabunz that is not at all based on his read nor how other people read him and instead tries to push a vote onto Hando because it's easy. I don't like this at all. It can be completely independent from dabunz's alignment because Potato doesn't have to be his scummate to make a play like this. It's just ****ing gross because as soon as dabunz claims he throws everything out the window to lynch Hando despite the fact that he was massively scumreading the player on the drop of a hat. This is how a scummer would handle this claim.

That said though, you are right here. Potassium spends the entirety of his case against Dabuz calling him out on self preservation (which many of us agreed on) and then Dabuz goes and does his BIGGEST self-preservation action all game and Potassium suddenly drops it?

That just doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Gova]

yeaah i check F&L1 and there was a n0 action

dabuz is probably lying

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

yeaah i check F&L1 and there was a n0 action

dabuz is probably lying

O.

Unvote

Vote: Dabuz

Check. And. Mate.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ayy Make it Rain remember when you said that if I get popularity for the dabuz wagon back that you'd happily hammer? Yea don't forget that.

 

[Gova]

unvote:

vote: dabuz

 

[Gargaglione]

YOLO

Vote: dabuz

 

[Top Deck BLS]

But you are claiming COP. There's two scumteams. HE WOULD GET NIGHTKILLED ANYWAY. What purpose does it serve to delay your D1 kill into what will most likely be a Night 1 kill? Aside from drawing the nightkill to yourself and having scum change targets for the night?

Like the above is a very good reason to do this, but only works if the claimer CORRECTLY GUESSES everyone will just go and act with the mindset of him telling the truth.

This would only make sense if it were D2, or D3 or so forth, where you had used your role already and at least have something for town to look into if you get nightkilled next phase.

What is the cost of attempting the claim from a town perspective if you're screwed without it? Your death is inevitable. Either you get lynched or get killed and you can at least try to keep it from wasting a town lynch.


I highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt a cop of any sort would get a night 0 action.

 

[Make it Rain!]

Is it how Kantrip handles a claim though? I don't see why scummer Kantrip doesn't stay on the wagon UNLESS he's Dabuz scum mate while he has Gorf still pushing it.

Of all the people to throw this at, you're not the one I expected.

We saved a ****ing doc in EnA and you have to ask this question? If he stands to gain something by dabunz being alive (like, I dunno, a giant ****ing WIFOM bomb come tomorrow), he has every reason to pull that trigger but ****all if I know what that actually is for certain.

 

[Top Deck BLS]

yeaah i check F&L1 and there was a n0 action

dabuz is probably lying

Wait. Seriously? It started with a cop result?

 

[Make it Rain!]

Nvm. I realize it could be CC bait.

oh okay

 

[Top Deck BLS]

Of all the people to throw this at, you're not the one I expected.

We saved a ****ing doc in EnA and you have to ask this question? If he stands to gain something by dabunz being alive (like, I dunno, a giant ****ing WIFOM bomb come tomorrow), he has every reason to pull that trigger but ****all if I know what that actually is for certain.

Yeah. If it was me, then fine. But it's Kantrip.

Regardless, don't worry about it. I got over it.

 

[Gova]

yes, it did

i checked the after life QT where circus said he crumbed his n0 results

 

[Top Deck BLS]

What's the vote count? I'm considering hammering if Ruy posted F&L1 and I can get a link to the result Gova found.

 

[Make it Rain!]

Nowhere in his preceding questions did he address his supposed "actual" intent. It was neither inferred nor implied. If you do find it being made evident in his preceding questions, please show me.

I mean it was kinda obvious to me that he was arguing about soup's intent/point of view based on the line of questions, you were arguing about soup's scumminess.

 

[Top Deck BLS]

Hammering is wrong. I'm considering voting and I don't want to be hammering yet.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Why don't cha just copy paste the url over here in case you still have haters gova.