Shadow Games Mafia Over: Dgames Doomed

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Can I request that you do not make the environment hostile for other participants in this game? Considering the history between how you and Kantrip react to these types of things, it would be highly preferred if this were put to a stop sooner later than later.

Multiple people are reading Gheb this way for "classic Gheb" reasons. I fail to see why this is specific to Kantrip.

Nothing about this is hostile.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Small hunch I have. Gorf's post didn't wow me and his lurking has been bothering me. I'm much more confident in Kantrip being one for now than the others.

I don't quite grasp what you're trying to gather from Gorf. Coming from someone that thoroughly enjoyed the post Gorf made, I'm wondering what was lack luster about it, and how this connects to his lack of activity to the point where he's a scum read. Are you looking for more opinions, or are you just not satisfied with what he gave us?

 

[Kantrip]

Gheb_01

Verdict: Scum

Reasoning: Gheb has done very little this game, and even less to make the game move forward. His actions so far include asking people for clarification on things, and telling people their read on Zalak is preemptive. Whether or not he has a point with the latter, these actions do absolutely nothing to progress the game. What makes it actually scummy is that he doesn't have a point with the latter, and he was actually telling people they should not have a read on a player who, in my opinion, everyone should have a read on at this point. Zalak has been the most talked about player and has interacted with the most people, and whether or not you believe that his insistence he should not be townread is a town tell, you should have something to say about the slot. Before changing his mind, Gorf was the only other person saying that people should not have a read on Zalak, but once he actually read the thread, he realized that there was lots to base a read on. Despite this, Gheb (who we have to assume has read the thread based on his keeping up with it) insists that there isn't enough to base a read on.

I think that if Gheb actually cared about finding scum, he would be able to form more solid reads than he has demonstrated so far. When asked about me, he says he's "not sure what to think" and goes on to cite a couple points against me that seem to suggest he doesn't like me, yet he can't commit to a scumread on me. It's clear that he doesn't have a read on Zalak, the most talked about player in the game, because he made a point of telling others they shouldn't have a read on him either. Adum, another player who's been talked about a fair bit, is also a null for Gheb, even though adum has done plenty of things including having a read on Zalak. The fact that Gheb doesn't have a read on adum proves that his callout served no purpose. He didn't ask adum or others with reads on Zalak any questions, he didn't try to push any of them for reactions, and he didn't try to shift the thread in a different direction other than Zalak. He just played mafia armchair critic, let his reads on all parties involved sit at null, and let the thread continue going in the same direction. That's why I feel that what he did was scummy.

 

[Kantrip]

kantrip is soup dogging you to goad you or do you see his perspective on you and his proposed scum team

I mean I see it because I think he really believes my reads are shallow and I lack reasoning. In truth, it's just my posts that are shallow because I'm not posting my full thought process with everything. The Gheb post I just made is more in line with me trying to flesh everything out a little more, even if it is kind of word vomit. If soup tunnels me and says I'm scum for not posting that Gheb post to begin with, then I'd think he's unnecessarily dogging me or just too married to his vote to realize he's mistaken.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Nothing about this is hostile.

If you and Kantrip both feel this way, then please continue to do what you're doing, but considering that bigger debates start with these types of things, it irks me. I would personally hate to see either you or Kantrip get aggravated at the game again as you are both great people. However, this has no connection with the game and is more of a personal thing.

Would you please comment on what was addressed to you at the end of the post you responded to?

 

[Kantrip]

Can I request that you do not make the environment hostile for other participants in this game? Considering the history between how you and Kantrip react to these types of things, it would be highly preferred if this were put to a stop sooner later than later.

Multiple people are reading Gheb this way for "classic Gheb" reasons. I fail to see why this is specific to Kantrip.

Don't worry, I'm not offended by soup's insults. Also being irked by Bardull liking posts and not posting and then posting very little when he does catch up is legit and I don't see why that bothered you.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Waiting for Gheb's response. I really don't care too much about your questions DSH, they're not important to me and a lot of thigns you ask me I would've brought up if they were. You're probably town though so keep doing what you're doing.

 

[Kantrip]

I actually really dig that Gorf realized he was wrong when he agreed with Gheb and changed his view. I don't see anything wrong with Gorf's entrance into the game. Bard's was definitely worse, but not because it was scummy. More because it was just disappointing.

 

[Kantrip]

Also FML I changed my mind about your question. Soup saying that nothing I say will possibly change his mind is definitely his attempt at dogging me. He can sit his vote on me for the rest of the game for all I care, it won't make him right. As long as other players see that I don't see why I have to be concerned with his opinion of me.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't quite grasp what you're trying to gather from Gorf. Coming from someone that thoroughly enjoyed the post Gorf made, I'm wondering what was lack luster about it, and how this connects to his lack of activity to the point where he's a scum read. Are you looking for more opinions, or are you just not satisfied with what he gave us?

The fact of the matter is right now it's not necessarily that Gorf is the worst, it's that everyone is better. Gorf's timing and presence is the hugest factor for me but I won't play too deep into that WIFOM. Again, I really just care about Kantrip (and Gheb's response) right now and I listed in my head that Bardull/Gorf could come to be good candidates. Sound fair?

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Also being irked by Bardull liking posts and not posting and then posting very little when he does catch up is legit and I don't see why that bothered you.

Is this in response to me? If so, could you state where I stated anything along these lines, as it's not lining up with my current thought process.

I also feel that Bardull's entrance is lack luster. However, It is really difficult to consider it anything more than null considering the fact that he isn't really into the game yet. That much was made obvious by his lack of posting and thoughts altogether, and I hope to see more from him before people start throwing him into a town/scum pile.

 

[Kantrip]

Is this in response to me? If so, could you state where I stated anything along these lines, as it's not lining up with my current thought process.

I also feel that Bardull's entrance is lack luster. However, It is really difficult to consider it anything more than null considering the fact that he isn't really into the game yet. That much was made obvious by his lack of posting and thoughts altogether, and I hope to see more from him before people start throwing him into a town/scum pile.

Yeah in your big wall you quoted me and Kary saying something about Bardull not posting and said "Can we not?" Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant by that.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

The fact of the matter is right now it's not necessarily that Gorf is the worst, it's that everyone is better. Gorf's timing and presence is the hugest factor for me but I won't play too deep into that WIFOM. Again, I really just care about Kantrip (and Gheb's response) right now and I listed in my head that Bardull/Gorf could come to be good candidates. Sound fair?

This does indeed work. Thank you for responding!

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Yeah in your big wall you quoted me and Kary saying something about Bardull not posting and said "Can we not?" Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant by that.

This was me wanting to say that we shouldn't start throwing suspicion towards people because of the fact that they're inactive when it's around finals and close to the weekend. I apologize for failing to state this.

 

[Zalak]

Mr. Detective Sherlock Hound, if I may, I always follow the votes of other people in the early game if I think they have any merit. It's just my way of trying to increase the pressure. As you can see in the early game, I also voted with Jay on Kantrip, thought that was RVS, the same reasoning applies. I just think you can get better reactions from people if they're under a lot of pressure.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Gheb push = nice

going to the shop see you in a bit

 

[Zalak]

EDIT OUT OF POST: I understand that this is a bad habit of mine. Especially when it comes to protecting my CREDIBILITY

 

[Zalak]

Unvote, Vote: Gorf

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Mr. Detective Sherlock Hound, if I may, I always follow the votes of other people in the early game if I think they have any merit. It's just my way of trying to increase the pressure. As you can see in the early game, I also voted with Jay on Kantrip, thought that was RVS, the same reasoning applies. I just think you can get better reactions from people if they're under a lot of pressure.

I failed to notice this, as I thought Kary was the one that made the vote on Kantrip.

This changes a lot of things I was considering. I apologize for failing to see this sooner, and I appreciate the response.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I feel that you're misunderstanding what they're stating. From my perspective, it seems that they're presenting the following idea: "People need to wait for Zalak to present more information that we can get a solid read off of before throwing him into an auto-town pile. The stuff he has stated so far would generally be fine for a semi-baseless new player town read, but considering Zalak's play in past games, reading him so strongly so early is a mistake." instead of attempting to halt the discussion of Zalak altogether.

I also fail to see how it's sheeping. If I recall correctly, this is not the first time that this ideal has been presented by Gorf, and he seems to be strongly for this idea regardless of who stated it first.

Do you fail to see this, or do you just not consider these things a possibility? If the latter, would you care to explain?

Certainly, ask "who benefits".

What's the town benefit here? They weren't suggesting that Zalak was scum or that the reason that Zalak was being townread was scummy so there's no benefit to scumhunting. So no town benefit.

What about scum?

1. Fake content benefit.

2. The benefit that the fewer townies that are viewed as town the larger the potential lynchpool, more room to hide and set up fake lynches.

3. It inherently makes players more cautious to take strong stances, particularly on Zalak decreasing the amount of information in general available to town.


That's my point, it's not that I'm suggesting that their wording suggests a desire for to do these things, I'm saying that it intrinsically benefits scum and they're experienced players so it makes no sense.


Also you're incorrect about gorf saying it first, he posed a question to me about whether something would hypothetically change my read, he didn't support this view until gheb said something.


Then he did a 180, which suggests that he made that post without even really reading zalak's comment history (granted I made an error when I initially cited, but still it ends up being damning from a fake content prospective to make that post without a firm grasp of his play).

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

That makes a lot of sense Adumbrodeus. Thank you for the response.

I, however, am under the belief that the following post (which you already addressed but I pulled up anyways):

adum if i were to vouch for zalaks grasp of the game being much better than someone else who has as much experience as he does (hes played roughly 3 games) would you change your read to null?

Lines up very well with the idea that he felt that you were putting too much of a town read on Zalak too early. While Gheb did state it when it became more relevant, I can't agree with the idea that Gorf was just sheeping Gheb's ideas because he stated something prior that lines up with it pretty well. If gorf was using his later post as a reason to read you (or others town reading Zalak), I'd agree with you. However that does not seem to be the case, and it seems like Gorf just posted that to support an idea he already agreed with.

 

[Kantrip]

That makes a lot of sense Adumbrodeus. Thank you for the response.

I, however, am under the belief that the following post (which you already addressed but I pulled up anyways):



Lines up very well with the idea that he felt that you were putting too much of a town read on Zalak too early. While Gheb did state it when it became more relevant, I can't agree with the idea that Gorf was just sheeping Gheb's ideas because he stated something prior that lines up with it pretty well. If gorf was using his later post as a reason to read you (or others town reading Zalak), I'd agree with you. However that does not seem to be the case, and it seems like Gorf just posted that to support an idea he already agreed with.

This further incriminates Gheb because, unlike Gorf, he isn't vouching for Zalak having a better grasp of the game than his experience suggests. I believe this was Gorf's reason for saying it at first, but he even changed his mind when he actually read the thread. It doesn't make any sense that Gheb actually thought people shouldn't have a read on Zalak.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Kantrip is scum

Vote Kantrip

 

[Zalak]

"3. I confirm the non-existence of the following roles: Survivor, Contract Hitman, Jester, Lyncher, Yakuza or alignment changing of any type"

"5. I'll straight up change these rules if I have to, because I hate you."

could we be looking at a jester gheb?

 

[Zalak]

OH JEEZ, I MEANT TO VOTE GHEB, NOT GORF

UNVOTE, VOTE: GHEB

 

[adumbrodeus]

That makes a lot of sense Adumbrodeus. Thank you for the response.

I, however, am under the belief that the following post (which you already addressed but I pulled up anyways):



Lines up very well with the idea that he felt that you were putting too much of a town read on Zalak too early. While Gheb did state it when it became more relevant, I can't agree with the idea that Gorf was just sheeping Gheb's ideas because he stated something prior that lines up with it pretty well. If gorf was using his later post as a reason to read you (or others town reading Zalak), I'd agree with you. However that does not seem to be the case, and it seems like Gorf just posted that to support an idea he already agreed with.

Could've been his mentality but waiting til he considered it safe to say it clearly reads no better, it's still sheeping.

The question is actually a good example of a constructive way to doubt my read.

 

[adumbrodeus]

EBWOP: But that doesn't mean that waiting to vocalize it til it was "safe" stinks any less, nor does the 180 degree switch he made on the topic when confronted on it.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

h
how so wrt to mine and his interaction

Kary showed too much aggression imo.

I think Kantrip is scum

Vote Kantrip

Really, Gheb? If I may use your words here:
"Try."

 

[~ Gheb ~]

... just look at the way he presents his case. It's not about finding scum, it's solely about throwing dirt at a player of his choosing in order to get a mislynch in [in this case on me]. Nowhere does he attempt to see things from a different angle or question anything about what he's saying that could be wrong/misinformed/misunderstood. From the beginning to the end the whole posts aims at destroying his target without even considering that his thought process could be even slightly off. No townie does that, certainly not on Day 1, certainly not with so little information at hand. It's completely destructive and has precisely nothing to do with scumhunting.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

... just look at the way he presents his case. It's not about finding scum, it's solely about throwing dirt at a player of his choosing in order to get a mislynch in [in this case on me]. Nowhere does he attempt to see things from a different angle or question anything about what he's saying that could be wrong/misinformed/misunderstood. From the beginning to the end the whole posts aims at destroying his target without even considering that his thought process could be even slightly off. No townie does that, certainly not on Day 1, certainly not with so little information at hand. It's completely destructive and has precisely nothing to do with scumhunting.

Thank you. I have no issue with your vote now.

 

[Zalak]

Thank you. I have no issue with your vote now.

but do you have a problem with the way he's ignored the accusations made against him?

 

[JayTheUnseen]

but do you have a problem with the way he's ignored the accusations made against him?

Yes. I'm not satisfied entirely, only with why he is voting. I don't agree with the vote, yet.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

but do you have a problem with the way he's ignored the accusations made against him?

Looks like you didn't understand my point.

Here's a good way to look at it though: read the whole post again [#323] but replace the name "Gheb" with "Zalak" and pretend that the post is about you. Look at the tone and try to think about how you'd respond to it. It'll become painfully obvious to you that his intention is not to find scum.

 

[Zalak]

Looks like you didn't understand my point.

Here's a good way to look at it though: read the whole post again [#323] but replace the name "Gheb" with "Zalak" and pretend that the post is about you. Look at the tone and try to think about how you'd respond to it. It'll become painfully obvious to you that his intention is not to find scum.

That's fine and good I SUPPOSE, but he's not the only one making accusations against you.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

So.. Gorf/Kantrip/Bardull team? Maybe?

lmao good content

all my questions have ssome purpose. my purposse in kicking around zalak should have been relatively obvious so im sssurpisssed gorf ssseesss it differently.

really dislike the line "wont be on a zalak wagon today" implying he's sssomehow going to be be sscummier by comparison tomorrow sssomehow when it'sss spretty obvious zalak doesnt need to be anywhere near the table

awful post. I will decline to elaborate given its a response to Gorf

also, unless your backspace is broken you don't have an excuse for these eyesores.

Kantrip's reasoning is so far-fetched and shallow that I refuse to believe for his own credential that he would make it as town.

aaaand this is the flop to the earlier flip, huh.

I have no idea why you stated either of the first two posts, expected FML to take them seriously in the slightest, and then voted him (partially) for it.

Rake is (or at least, was) bad at lying. In saying 'sshhhhhh' he clearly avoids mentioning his own alignment.

also it's RVS

I fail to see the reasoning behind stating this, as this has no correlation with the thoughts Gheb has presented. That is unless you feel that him saying something along the lines of "I fail to see why people are giving Zalak a get out of jail town card without passing go" equates to "we should not form opinions on anyone." or that you feel that he has no right to say these types of things without showing his own hand, something you shouldn't be expecting from Gheb at this point honestly.

Spoiler

Kary: Probably the closest thing I have to a scum read to be honest. His responses to Zalak and how he handles the slot as a whole is very weird to me considering the fact that Zalak has been following his vote with no explanation the entire game. His FML vote is... subpar to say the least. Kary expecting FML to properly respond to his suspicions prior to his vote is off, and using that as part of his reasoning for voting him is suspicious.

FML had garbage direction, so much that their eventual reason for voting Kantrip was "i just feel intuitively like he's the right direction."

Also you can't blame me for Zalak's vote. It is weird and I am aware of it.

 

[Zalak]

my vote was not weird :/

 

[#HBC | Kary]

gorf is...i dunno, what did you think of hiss svote on me ? i thought it was obviouss i was kicking he tiressss to get zalaksss perspective to initiate him to town tell like madd but i feel like sscum gorf doessnt hop on my wagon when their'ss sliterally 0 momentum to even ssee me lynched seeing as kary issssnt invested and zalak more interessted in biting every ankle he deemsss worthy than pursssuing me doggedly.

you are a good lynch right now, but I don't expect people to agree with me yet, and it's literally impossible to lynch anyone with <50% playerlist posting.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

my vote was not weird :/

you have twice immediately followed me in voting for someone and that is, at the least, a coincidence. You also followed Jay onto Potassium IIRC. If I didn't know better I'd say you had a voting restriction.


rest of catchup in next post

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Looks like you didn't understand my point.

Here's a good way to look at it though: read the whole post again [#323] but replace the name "Gheb" with "Zalak" and pretend that the post is about you. Look at the tone and try to think about how you'd respond to it. It'll become painfully obvious to you that his intention is not to find scum.

It may be difficult to respond to, but not impossible. He has a point in saying that it wasn't too town of you to say no one should have a mildly strong read on Zalak. There was decent content at that time.

 

[Zalak]

OH, you're still catching up, sorry. I sort of explained my reasoning for voting with you in one of my recent posts.