Feeling discouraged about playing competitively...

[Zoljinx]

I've played Smash my whole life, not competitively. the most competitive i got was against people at a youth group i used to go to. but as of Smash 4 i wanted to see if i could join the competitive scene. and this is where my roadblock has happened.

one of my big problems is I'm having trouble finding a tournament that is close by, or being able to even find the time to go. i pretty much have been working every day this past couple of weeks since i picked up a second job, and was lucky enough to get 2 days off in a row, (this is my second day off as of posting this.) so it could be that i just haven't been able to practice as much as everyone else.

Another big problem is... I'm just not winning very much in For Glory lately. I've been using my "Win Rate" as a gauge on how well i am doing and i can't even get it past 63%. above average i guess, but still nothing to really brag about. recently i feel like I've been getting out prioritized by everything, and can't actually do anything about it. it may just be lag, but it's starting to make me feel like I'm not getting any better at the game, and it's also making me frustrated, which probably only makes me play worse. eventually i get a win or 2 in, but then they leave, i get a new person and the process starts all over again.

right now I main Yoshi, and secondary a lot of other characters. i haven't really solidified the characters i will keep as secondaries, or even as a new main (been considering dropping Yoshi, but he just seems to be my best character.), but these are who i'm looking at right now: Ike, Toon Link, Pit, Fox, Pac-Man, R.O.B., Kirby, Wii Fit Trainer and Palutena.

I would like to thank and apologize at the same time for you having to listen to my frustration, but I honestly Don't know where to go from here, I don't feel like I'm learning anything from my losses.

 

[K-45]

Hey man add me on Skype and i'll add u to a skype group full of competitive players you may learn a thing or 2.

Killerwins45.

I can't help you with your tournament problem but there will be tournaments on the wiiU version online.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

If you feel like everything is out prioritizing you, you need to learn your main character's hitboxes/hurtboxes. That mostly just takes experience. Just keep playing, spend time in training room, watch other players in tournaments (clashtournaments has a few posted as of now) and try not to get discouraged.

Also don't be afraid of changing up your playstyle, trying new things and definitely don't be afraid of losing. In the end, for glory is just for improving your game, a certain win percentage doesn't mean **** (because the game has no ranking system in place that i'm aware of)

You are probably improving and just not realizing it.

 

[drew95gt]

I've been discouraged as well, this is my first Smash game but I have played hours of Street Fighter and MK...etc. I have always been able to play fairly competently on those titles but can get the hang of 1 vs.1 FG. My win % is somewhere around 25% and I get schooled with constant juggling and edge guarding which I am not sure how to deal with yet. Been maining Dr. Mario/Toon Link so far and I like their move sets and play styles but I'm not able to play competively with them yet. I can do fine against the highest level CPU opponents so I figured that would translate into online play, but boy was I wrong. Keep practicing I guess...

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

Practicing against cpu is fine to learn all the moves, but computers don't act like humans, so it won't translate into for glory mode very well. I have the same advice for you, which is to watch a lot of pro matches to learn how to develop a more competitive game.

 

[mario123007]

Me too, I am the same as you bro, sometimes is not because you are weak. It is because the laggy input controls and some people who is not that tough but will do some nasty tricks. Most of us will lose a lot when we play For Glory so that you shouldn't be ashamed, for the pros, come on, go easy on us. It is not a tournament anyway.
Keep training yourself, if you can't handle For Glory or any online match, then just stop, took a deep breath, wait for a couple of hours to calm down. Then continue.

 

[Dirty Duck]

I'm in your boat as well man, played Brawl a ton with friends but it was never the competitive style, I didn't even really know there WAS a competitive scene back then. With Sm4sh I'm trying to get more technical and it's pretty hard, I'm trying to learn how to spike but I really can't manage it with Marth so far and the characters I can manage it with that I've tried (Ganondorf, Falcon and Link) I've failed to actually do it consistently in For Glory. Practice makes perfect though I guess. I can tell I'm improving.

Haven't looked for any tournaments yet but I'd like to take part in one eventually, I'm sure just the atmosphere would be enough to make you feel more encouraged to "git gud" as they say.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I was in the same boat when I joined, especially when I entered a game with heavy technical barriers. There are a lot of assholes on this forum who tend to spout vague self help statements and mocking remarks, and sometimes when you shift from one way of playing to another, you tend to lose more since you are still adjusting. The only thing I can tell you is to not quit.

What helped me was seeking out players who you know who are better than you, but are willing to play and give advice on what to do. You may get bodied for a while but if you are open to criticism and willing to evaluate your mistakes than you WILL get better. Look for threads related to your favorite character, lurk through threads and try to understand the deeper mechanics of smash like Directional Influence, Teching, Spacing your self with your character, and definitely work on developing your "mind games " and competitive mindset. Search for threads stocked on the top of the forums for characters and general gameplay advice, too.

Rome wasn't built in a day, so keep trying and don't let people discourage you. One day you'll probably be schooling them in smash.

 

[C4-]

The best way to improve is to play against other players like you are and to accept that your going to lose alot, even if your really good youll still lose alot. I find that playing against people who are so much better than me teaches me alot more about how to play than playing against someone who is the same level or slightely better than me. You could try joining nintendodojo ladders, most people who play on there are very good and you can learn alot from all the variety and skill levels that are present there. When you lose try and figure out why you may have lost, were you spacing wrong ? were you doing things that were just plain punishable? etc..

As for thinking of switching your main i can only give you input on ike being that ive played over 1200 for glory matchs with him. I think switching from yoshi to ike will only discourage you more because hes alot harder to use against experienced players. You have to be able to space your aerials very well to avoid getting punished and getting a kill overall can be very hard, plus youll have no projectiles which for some people can be a very big deal. Ike is however a very fun character and not very many people play him so it feels nice representing him Good luck !

 

[SevenYearItch]

You're going to lose, A LOT. You need to build up your mental strength because you'll get really good in this environment, then join a tourny and just get dumpstered by the top players there typically. Most pros always say, your first year be ready to never win. You may surprise yourself and take a few sets, but just be ready for that. For Glory win rate is where you fall down here, its not a gauge of anything. Ken has a 22% win rate last I checked at his stream. The issue is I can play 10 people in a row who have never touched the game, then be matched with one good person. Or, I can just get wrecked by a ton of good players, then face a n00b and win. Either way my win/wins didn't mean much because I couldn't beat the good players, I just stole an easy win for my record. Play people from the boards here (I'm always down to spar with my Falcon), and use For Glory to practice tech

 

[Darkzephr]

if you're aiming to play competitively, you should consider changing your mindset. Losing is far more valuable to your development than winning. When you're winning, its very easy to allow your bad habits to become more ingrained into your play style you don't need to reflect on a game where you completely stomped your opponent. That being said, being completely rolled with no opportunities to develop won't help much either. Ideally you want to play against someone who is consistently better than you, but you have an opportunity to adapt, change your play style, and maybe take a game or two off.

How I generally play on for glory is if I easily beat an opponent, I leave. if someone destroys me I play them till as hard as possible, saving replays to analyze my mistakes. My win rate is 26%.

The question is, do you want to feel good at the game, or do you want to actually be good at the game? If it is the ladder, you're going to have a much easier time if you can learn to enjoy (or at least tolerate) losing.

 

[Zoljinx]

thank you all for your encouraging replies, i am feeling much better after seeing i'm not the only one with this kind of problem. and everyone replied nicely!

I've started experimenting with a brand new character i hadn't played before, Meta Knight. and he seems to be a decent fit, he has horrible range, but his mobility is pretty strong, and i like to get in peoples faces and keep pressure on the opponent as much as possible, so his range isn't as bad for me i think. i figured "since i have bad habits on the characters i already play, why not start from scratch?" that said i haven't abandoned Yoshi, or any of the other characters. but i'm looking into narrowing the list down to maybe just 3-5 characters to focus on, i think my attention is spread too thin across the roster.

after hearing you guys say "it's okay to lose". i've eased up a bit, and have been doing better than before. and am going to work on not losing my temper over losing repeatedly, and won't focus on my Win rate as much. i'm gonna keep at it and hope that one day i can actually attend/win a tournament.

 

[CCTANK93]

thank you all for your encouraging replies, i am feeling much better after seeing i'm not the only one with this kind of problem. and everyone replied nicely!

I've started experimenting with a brand new character i hadn't played before, Meta Knight. and he seems to be a decent fit, he has horrible range, but his mobility is pretty strong, and i like to get in peoples faces and keep pressure on the opponent as much as possible, so his range isn't as bad for me i think. i figured "since i have bad habits on the characters i already play, why not start from scratch?" that said i haven't abandoned Yoshi, or any of the other characters. but i'm looking into narrowing the list down to maybe just 3-5 characters to focus on, i think my attention is spread too thin across the roster.

after hearing you guys say "it's okay to lose". i've eased up a bit, and have been doing better than before. and am going to work on not losing my temper over losing repeatedly, and won't focus on my Win rate as much. i'm gonna keep at it and hope that one day i can actually attend/win a tournament.

That's good. Just keep at it. I've been a Lucina main and I've become pretty good. Losses just help you learn from mistakes. I've met plenty of other players that taught me new strategies for my characters even if I lose to them. Meta Knight is a great character to pick up because he has a great amount of movement and Attack options. Before you know it, you'll be teleporting around your opponent in no time. Keep practicing and you'll be ready for tournies.

 

[chrisall76]

http://www.smashladder.com/netplay
I would suggest this site and finding people on here to play. Much better to do this and ask advice from who your fighting since you can actually talk to them on here.

 

[FalconSoup]

You're going to lose, A LOT. You need to build up your mental strength because you'll get really good in this environment, then join a tourny and just get dumpstered by the top players there typically. Most pros always say, your first year be ready to never win. You may surprise yourself and take a few sets, but just be ready for that. For Glory win rate is where you fall down here, its not a gauge of anything. Ken has a 22% win rate last I checked at his stream. The issue is I can play 10 people in a row who have never touched the game, then be matched with one good person. Or, I can just get wrecked by a ton of good players, then face a n00b and win. Either way my win/wins didn't mean much because I couldn't beat the good players, I just stole an easy win for my record. Play people from the boards here (I'm always down to spar with my Falcon), and use For Glory to practice tech

I couldn't have said it any better. I have a pretty high win rate, but I don't take it into strong consideration. Like Seven said, you can play hundreds of matches with a person just starting out, and you can rarely be pit against a skilled player, so I wouldn't take the win/loss ratio into high consideration.
I agree. Plenty of people have told me that going to tourneys can be the best way to get better. I've gone to two tournaments in my life (one online, but it wasn't very tournament-like anyway), and both were for Brawl. I won the online one, and I did pretty alright with Zelda, but ultimately lost every round, no matter how close, when it came to the in-person one. I'm planning on going to Smash 4 tourneys too, and I'm fully prepared to not win. I suppose that's just what newcomers go through.
Today, I feel a bit more confident, however, when I reflect on the matches I had with seriously good players online. I've been winning a lot more than I ever thought I could, and I have much more control over my mentality in close games (better than I had it in Brawl). However, I'm still prepared to get creamed in any way possible. As I have slowly began figuring out, losing matches can give you some great lessons. Just keep practicing. There are plenty of people on the boards that would love to battle (myself included).

 

[Turokman5896]

I'm having a similar problem. I've played smash for years and when sm4sh first came out, I did pretty dang well in for glory. But lately, maybe from my increased lag and mental block or something, I can't win a single game. Most matches I do well but throw at the end or adapt to the player and when I feel "I know I'll win the next few matches" they leave. Should I take a break from online? I honestly am losing confidence...

 

[WwwWario]

Don't worry. The fact that you don't have tournaments nearby is the same as me. There's no tournaments where I live since I don't live in any city So I play For Glory and waiting for the Wii U version since people can host tournaments there.

As for you losing - don't worry about that either. Remember that Smash 4 is new, the mechanics works differently. I think you need to practice more on the new mechanics and how your main (Yoshi I guess?) works in Smash 4. Yoshi is really powerful here, I've lost several matches on For Glory against him, so I need to learn Yoshi's strategies more before I can win more easily against him. Just practice on avoiding for example the buffed rolling, and just keep practicing and really get into the new Smash I'm sure you will do better with a proper controller once the Wii U version is out too

 

[nightSN]

You could always try online tournaments to refine your skill. Other then that the win rate means 0 to nothing so don't use that as a gauge for how well you are doing.

 

[Melonfrog]

First of all ask yourself if you enjoy the game casually, if you do don't make the mistake I did a few years ago. Playing for fun with friends, family and random is something you don't want to throw away, once you reach a level where casual play becomes an annoyance you will lose the enjoyment of playing casually. Meaning playing with your beloved friends is turned into something you hate when you onced loved it.

Or, you could play well casually but get destroyed competitively and forever get stick in the borderline of skill. I have been here, still am. It is hell.

 

[Wiley]

Hope and ego are tough to manage. But the game has been home to you before you took this plunge into the competitive world.

Don't expect to be at the same level as the guy who isn't working two jobs and is spending every waking hour studying the game. So you won't be a frontrunner, no big deal. The great news is, as humans we are adaptable. And even if we're not as spungey as we were as children, you can pick up a lot from experience with someone better than you. The competition might get there first, but you can pick off their brains and catch up when you get the time. Stress will kill this motivation though. Losing is wonderful, it shows room to grow. I'd say take up some of the offers to learn from people around here and your hope shouldn't be completely lost! I've never been in the competitive scene yet either, but I've attended a tournament at a ComicCon for fun and did far better than I expected (different game) and it's the scene that is more addictive than anything. Surrounded by people all who love the same thing as you was so refreshing. I look forward to getting my ass handed to me or pushing my hardest and hope you continue to as well bud :D

And please go into for glory and start scratching your Win/Loss %. It was really easy to manipulate the % and in the long run that didn't feel like it was helping me at all. The matchmaking in this game is not up to standards, so make it your own. Want to find people to lose to and learn. I kept above 80% but I've seen far more growth in my skill since I stopped caring. I go into games with a cooler attitude, I have far more fun. And sometimes losing can be hilarious. My % has suffered greatly... but my fun has skyrocketed. Plus, you miss out on the random social match of just taunting and silly slow walks, acting like tools with a friendly random to break up the routine. These will also remind you of why you loved the game to begin with.

 

[Gamingboy]

Be plucky. The one who keeps failing but keeps trying is sometimes just as worthy of admiration as the one who is on top. In time, through all the losses, things will start clicking, and you'll start doing better. And if you lose: hey, it's just a game.

 

[CharZane]

If you're not losing, you're not going to get the chance or motivation to improve-- a single better opponent can teach you as much as twenty worse ones. I highly recommend playing a few games against most, if not all, of the cast as your main against some lv. 9 CPUs just to get a brisk feel for the matchups-- how many stocks they take off you, if any, can be a great benchmark to start from, and it keeps you from feeling too overwhelmed by an unusual matchup. Bots are better than they've ever been (even if still not by any means great), so by all means, polish your mechanics 'till they shine. I likely won't stop facing bots 'till I can 1v3 every combination of teamed-up CPUs possible, personally, just because it's something to practice and thus gleaming some cross training from it is assured. What's more important than who you play or even how you play is that you play. It takes hundreds of hours to become adequate, nearer a thousand to become good, and thousands to become truly great. A better sense for the theory and watching pros and viewing your replays and focusing your matches to good opponents all help to speed the process immensely, of course, but there's no getting around the fact that it takes a lot of legwork (or thumbwork, as it were).

Progress is progress. No matter how little it may feel like, playing will always mean improving-- even if it's just something silly like home run contest, there's still something you can take away from it in the long run.

 

[chipndip]

Two points:

1) I don't use For Glory to gauge how amazing I am, but keeping my record high does let me know I'm not doing something grossly wrong. Being better than the majority means something, ya know?

You won't be the very best with nothing but FG practice, but you'll be better than before.

2) Yoshi's a very good character in this game, but he has flaws in his offense that a secondary pick would definitely help with (I second Pit myself). I'd suggest looking for someone that doesn't share the same weaknesses Yoshi has, so someone that can KO better or someone with a better camping game would do. Also, Yoshi tends to get pretty flustered when people get danger close, because his hit-boxes start whiffing as his model bleeds into the opponent, and to boot, u-smash is his best anti-air, but it's not that good of an anti-air in general since his foot is invincible and not his body before he flips...which is quite vulnerable while charging/launching the move. Toon Link doesn't have ANY of these weaknesses, so he's a great secondary pick.

Point is that having a secondary character to lean on is a good thing. Just a main and a pocket should suffice. Pick a pocket that doesn't share the weaknesses of the main so you're more flexible. I ran into a Zamus that ran my Yoshi for a loop, but I didn't lose when I used Pit thanks to Upperdash Arm. Still, Yoshi's my main, and in most situations I'm better with him.

3) Always remember that there's a difference between losing and learning...and just getting bent over a barrel. Rivals you play to improve against should be around your level so you can actually learn. If you're just getting ran over, you aren't learning.

 

[Wyverian]

I know this feel, its the worst feel of the feels in the feel universe. I kinda feel that way more about competitive pokemon, but in fighting games i always had some kind of edge and mastered alot of them in a short time. Let me tell you, for one, in FG yeah some matches will just be alittle too laggy, or the input lag will mess you up really bad, then you have alot of gimmicky players, which is fine, a win is a win right? but its still annoying. Like many have suggested, you may wanna spend time in training mode with your main study those hit boxes, study and find those moves that K.O so that you'll know when to use them. Play against cpu's to practice your tech, reaction times ( for some things ) and getting use to your characters move set in a match. First week i got the game, i lost alot, i have not played seriously since Melee, second week i started winning more games, by now, i'm able to take out half the players i run into on FG, granted i still lose, we all lose.
I think the key is to notice your mistakes, once you make a wrong move and notice it, exactly after doing it then your already on the right track, you then have to break the habit of making those mistakes. You can do it!

 

[Darkzephr]

Two points:

1) I don't use For Glory to gauge how amazing I am, but keeping my record high does let me know I'm not doing something grossly wrong. Being better than the majority means something, ya know?

This isn't meant to **** on your positive win rate, or justify my abysmal win rate, but due to the implementation of the matchmaking system in this game having a high win rate in For Glory means absolutely nothing. From what I can tell, there is no hidden MMR(Match Making Rating) there might be? it would be insanely hard to implement when they allow you endless rematches. That combined with the fact that you can choose to to change opponents after a loss or a win, or decide to keep playing them makes your win record mean next to nothing. it is a very inaccurate way to gauge yourself against other players (specifically: your "better than the majority" comment).

How I play for glory is I find a new opponent if I win the first game, I repeat until I lose. I play that opponent (saving all replays) until I can achieve a victory, I then keep playing until I am confident in victory or they leave. My 26% has literally no indication of my skill as a player, and is actually a more accurate representation of my method of practice given the For Glory environment.

 

[victra♥]

A friend of mine from my smash community said something one time that changed a lot of how many of us approached competitive smash.

"Later in life you want to be able to look back and remember all your friends from smash, not all the stress and anger from trying to place well. Let the game shape you positively and enjoy the people around you instead of giving into anger. Trust me, I used to get worked up about smash but you can change yourself, and boy is it better when you do."

With that said, I would really suggesting finding time to go out and meet your local smash community. It's really worth finding time for it, trust me. It's the best way to get better, and it's also how you're going to meet a lot of cool people and make a lot of friends.

 

[micstar615]

I was also in a similar boat as you bud. You kind of have to get used to losing, learn from your losses and adjust your play style accordingly. It's a long and stressful process but if you enjoy playing competitively, then it's worth it.

I didn't really enjoy it and just stuck to playing for fun or with friends, nothing wrong with that either, smash is a game that can literally be played however you want, just enjoy however you decide to play.

 

[One Handed Sword]

To be honest Smash is like experiencing a whole new SF for me. My greatest mistake playing this game was thinking I am a king due to my pretty high skill at offline SF4 managed to beat a few good players here and there so I thought Smash would be a breeze.

Well it was not and I have been pushed right back to square one again. Only determination and great physical strength will help you net loads of wins and in general have fun with the game. Yeah I may be whiny or salty alot but I know when I am and trust me I am doing my best to change this. I hope you realize your flaws as well.

 

[adamlon1]

As a newcomer in the smash scene myself I am experiencing some of these problems too such as fining tournaments and all that but skill wise just go online and see what works and what doesn't and while you do that you might want to head out to the Clash Tournaments channel they have a bunch of stuff on Smash 4 and VG Boot camp is starting they're combo series on smash 4 so go see some of that and go online and play people.