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Falco vs. Metaknight is the sickest !$%*ing matchup

technomancer

Smash Champion
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May 17, 2006
Messages
2,053
Falco is Metaknight's biggest issue. 0-40% chaingrab finished with a d-air, gatling combo and possibly more followups and lasers change the game. He has a lot of shield stun and little lag, one of the best jabs in the game, and unexpected priority on several moves including his b-air, f-smash and u-air, a top notch recovery mixup, and several good answers to the tornado, particularly just angling the shield and then u-smashing or lasering for free depending on how you land. He also just ***** your up-B and glide attack with d-airs, b-airs and upsmashes and lives a long time with good DI.

To be fair to Metaknight, you have the advantage on offense. Our in-close air game is good. F-airs and N-airs damage and give advantge. Tornado can juggle well. A good mixup and punishing obvious mistakes should put you above Falco's distance game and priority hits. Unlike many other matchups, however, the pressure doesn't last against Falco. Much like Snake, a few steps back or a well timed dodge can set you up to take a 20% chunk, reset the spacing, and force you to wiggle your way back in past the lasers.

There's the rub of it. Falco's looking to force a low% grab or just deal a lot of raw damage based on the fact that you need to avoid it. Until you hit 45% or so, you'll need to avoid grabs with your spacing, and avoid using things like spot-dodges and n-airs that lead to easy grabs, and Falco can just add on the same percentage with lasers, his b-air, and good spacing. Unless you can break out a solid string from a grab or well-timed tornado then you're going to be behind for a little while.

So now Falco is up by about 20% or so, and considering he'll likely kill you by 120% whereas he can survive to 130-140%, you're down a solid 40% worth of damage that you have to work to make up, and from here, it's all prediction and not messing up your timing to give him free %. Falco's going to be looking to force you to compete with his forward priority and punish even the fastest of your attacks. You're going to be looking to exploit a diminished shield for a free hit and pressure, and these competeing forces breed aggression and thrust both players into the mix where mindgames can thrive.

This matchup is awesome. Discuss.
 

brinboy789

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O.o falco huh. CG till 40 + dair which is about 50%. what do you think the matchup numbers are? falcos recovery...i wouldnt say top notch, but its good. and whats falcos answer to the tornado? not trying to prove your theory wrong, JW
 

swordsman126

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Aug 24, 2008
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I've never actually experimented with it, but for some reason it seems to me like either Falco's reflector or possibly even blaster might do something against the tornado. I don't know this for sure, it's just a hunch, it seems to me like it would make sense for some reason. It probably doesn't, but who knows, it's worth looking into.
 

ADHD

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dude you main metaknight, just grab him and throw him offstage. Problem solved
 

Megavitamins

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LOL chrome. Somebody tell me how to sig that =D.

Umm, btw, Falco's recovery isn't top notch IMOM, MK has a decent answer for pretty much all of his recovery tricks.
 

swordsman126

Smash Rookie
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Aug 24, 2008
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2
Okay, I found this video on the Falco forum. At around 1:20 it shows Falco using his blaster to hit MK during the tornado, and it actually works. Falco also chaingrabs MK on at least two separate occasions. A small side note, on the Falco forum it shows MK at a 55-45 advantage, so TC's theory could very well prove accurate.
 

Overswarm

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Messages
21,181
You don't even have to gimp him. Falco doesn't have any good anti-edge tricks. Just grab the edge after you hit him once and you win the match. Just don't go back on the stage for any reason until you're over 40% (so he can't chain grab you) and you have the advantage the entire time.

Besides, if he is recovering from above the stage with over-b, just tornado him. Otherwise, grab the edge so he has to up+b then gimp him with dairs. >_>
 

technomancer

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Overswarm, that's incorrect, Falco can upsmash you straight off of the edge, and Meta doesn't have an aerial that Falco can't punish or counter, and he also has b-airs for stage-spiking.

You can defiantly punish his recovery, and he can punish yours, but most good Falcos know to just grab the edge or hop slightly on the stage with their jump unless you come after them, when they back off and side-B.
 

Overswarm

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Overswarm, that's incorrect, Falco can upsmash you straight off of the edge, and Meta doesn't have an aerial that Falco can't punish or counter, and he also has b-airs for stage-spiking.

You can defiantly punish his recovery, and he can punish yours, but most good Falcos know to just grab the edge or hop slightly on the stage with their jump unless you come after them, when they back off and side-B.
...you know MK isn't actually just hanging on the edge the entire time, right? =P

If Falco gets near you, fair him or drop off and prepare to up+b spike him or sweetspot the ledge with your over-b. Jumping straight up and nairing from the ledge then DIing away also works. You can also drop straight down and u-air through the stage.
 

TKD

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Just generalizing, but, generally! ...Falco's easy. On an even skill level, you might lose, but it's more likely that you win. Dittos are more challenging.
 

brinboy789

Smash Champion
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...you know MK isn't actually just hanging on the edge the entire time, right? =P

If Falco gets near you, fair him or drop off and prepare to up+b spike him or sweetspot the ledge with your over-b. Jumping straight up and nairing from the ledge then DIing away also works. You can also drop straight down and u-air through the stage.
falcos will probably...laser spam. so you are forced to approach him lol
 

_Phloat_

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falcos will probably...laser spam. so you are forced to approach him lol

Im MK holding onto a ledge. How do you hit me with a laser without putting yourself in danger.

Don't even need a question mark there, I know there is no correct answer.
 

8AngeL8

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I know for a fact that both lasers and reflector stop the tornado, thank god. Otherwise it would walk all over us.

I do agree, though, that this is one of the closer and more interesting matches that MK has. If the MK player can't take control and lock down Falco's lasers take away the spacing needed for combos, Falco will walk all over him.
 

Overswarm

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I know for a fact that both lasers and reflector stop the tornado, thank god. Otherwise it would walk all over us.

I do agree, though, that this is one of the closer and more interesting matches that MK has. If the MK player can't take control and lock down Falco's lasers take away the spacing needed for combos, Falco will walk all over him.
WTF? Grab ledge. End game. No more lasers.


If you're not a fan of that, full hop then jump again. You are now out of range of all of Falco's attacks and may approach safely.
 

8AngeL8

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WTF? Grab ledge. End game. No more lasers.


If you're not a fan of that, full hop then jump again. You are now out of range of all of Falco's attacks and may approach safely.
Side-B doesn't HAVE to go to the ledge, you can recover onto the stage. Yeah, it's pretty easy for MK to gimp him, but it's pretty easy for him to gimp most characters. Falco is pretty well equipped to take him on while he IS on stage, though. If it were as bad as you make it out to be, Falco would never win this matchup. Obviously he can, since players like Sethlon and SK92 do it all the time.
 

Overswarm

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Side-B doesn't HAVE to go to the ledge, you can recover onto the stage. Yeah, it's pretty easy for MK to gimp him, but it's pretty easy for him to gimp most characters. Falco is pretty well equipped to take him on while he IS on stage, though. If it were as bad as you make it out to be, Falco would never win this matchup. Obviously he can, since players like Sethlon and SK92 do it all the time.
1. You have no idea what you're talking about.

2. I know this because I said "what color are apples" and you told me the year Red Delicious was founded.
 

8AngeL8

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1. You have no idea what you're talking about.

2. I know this because I said "what color are apples" and you told me the year Red Delicious was founded.

Your argument is that you can get Falco off stage and edgehog to force him to use Up-B, then gimp him. I'm saying you can Side-B directly on stage rather than to the edge. It's not an ideal solution and will be punished, but it's better than getting gimped.

Again, I'll say this. If it were so easy for MK to shut down Falco, he would never win a tournament.
 

Lord Yawgmoth

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Your argument is that you can get Falco off stage and edgehog to force him to use Up-B, then gimp him....
Actually, in his first post he was talking about how it was easy to gimp him,

after that, he talked about hitting Falco once, and then running to the edge and hanging on it, knowing that there is no safe way for Falco to hit you.
 

DRaGZ

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its called stalling. ever heard of it? its banned in tourney play. falco = campy. its a fact.
Ledgecamping banned in tournies?

Roflcopter 2000.

I would just like to add, R.O.B. does extremely well against Falco when camping on the edge, and his edge options aren't exactly the most robust or safe. So, just imagine how well MetaKnight, with his myriad array of awesome ledge options, would do against a Falco.
 

Plairnkk

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*licks lips*

edge camping falco is too good, it's their fault for continuing to camp all the time, even when they're losing. if you do watch the videos of me vs sk92, whenever i do go on the stage he just runs away and shoots lasers. im just like...*sigh* fine.... *goes back to edge*

tons of chars have ridiculous edgegames, this is brawl. its just well known with MK because I made it popular.
 

Nic64

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gotta go with chrome on this, falco is toast off the edge. and assuming he will successfully CG you from 0-40% is....well, an assumption, he can't just run after you to grab at the start, and while he may be able to force a grab before 40%, you should be able to make him work for a lot of that damage, if you're getting grabbed at 0%, you're doing something wrong.
 

Staco

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the matchup falco vs mk isnt bad for falco
but falco really has got a problem with making damage
and he has got a problem, to come back at the stage, against mk

I think its 40/60 for mk

and if the mk knows, the falco only wants to grab him, he can spam tornado and punish the falco hardly
and mk can counterpick some good stages against falco like orpheon, where he really has got toruble with recovery
 

M@v

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This seems even....until falco gets hit offstage. Falco's recovery is mediocre at best, and off stage is where MK shines.

/end discussion.
 

Tommy_G

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Rainbow Cruise isn't bad because of Falco disgusting vertical speed. It's at least not as bad as Orpheon.

As for Planking...it's possibly the gayest form of playing I've ever seen. There was a MK in FL that only used Up-B, Tornado, Shuttle Loop, and Glide attack and won a tournament. Guess what people did? They adapted. Falco's Up smash hits ridiculously low off of the ledge. I know MK doesn't hang onto the ledge the whole time, but regrabbing the ledge requires the player to be falling. That's where Falco can hit him(at the top of his jump). Up smash out of shield. SK92 is really good, but it's hard to think of all of your options while fighting, especially on something as ridiculous as this.
 

Emblem Lord

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MK doesn't even NEED to edge stall.

Better pokes with more range and speed. Better gimping. Better offense overall.

Faster running speed.

Lasers?

How? Standing lasers? Easily dealt with. SHDL and SHL give MK time to close with his great running speed.

Falco has a CG in this match.

That's it.

And you wanna say Falco gives it to MK?

Really?

Get the **** outta her with that bull****.
 

darkspatan117

Smash Journeyman
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^True ppl always remember this if Marth has the advantage against someone you're sure that MK has it
 

Deception

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Falco, aye? I do believe Meta Knight has his weaknesses, even if they are not as glaring as other weaknesses. Falco has the range advantage, can chaingrab MK, and can deal with Tornado. Falco is not great at recovering against Mk, but Fox's recovery wasn't so hot in Melee, yet he was the best. It's either even or slightly in Falco's favor.
 

aeghrur

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EL, you still gotta agree that planking is just gay.
Deception... how does falco deal with the tornado?
He can't hit through it with shine/lasers because of its speed...
Fox could cancel his aerial lag and could wavedash, falco can not, meanwhile, MK has nearly no lag and a much better recovery than melee fox.
 

Emblem Lord

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Do what wins.

Why are you calling it planking?

Ledge camping is nothing new.

That scrub mentality pisses me the **** off more then anything.
 
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