EVO RULESET ANNOUNCED. The ruleset has been updated!

[All_Usernames_Are_Taken]

That applies to every move in the game, it's part of what's called playing unpredictably, which requires skill.
Spawning items require no skill, in fact, it's entirely out of the player's control.

Actually, it's completely in the players' control. What movements you send to a system are completely in your control, and they are what determines where the random seed goes.

That's why it's possible to beat RPGs in 18 minutes: http://tasvideos.org/469M.html

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

lmao I just saw the end of that video. That has got to be the funniest smash video I've ever seen. Pikachu is Irish!!!!

Actually, it's completely in the players' control. What movements you send to a system are completely in your control, and they are what determines where the random seed goes.

That's why it's possible to beat RPGs in 18 minutes: http://tasvideos.org/469M.html

Hey man why are you arguing this? Are you just arguing to argue?

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

He's arguing to troll, or something like that.

 

[Zelc]

Im not one to post on Smashboards often, but this particular topic caught my eye. Firstly, what a bullsh*t ending to that match, solid proof that items have too much of a random factor to deciding match, the Wario player could have easily beaten that Pika if the items werent against him that match

You realize Pikachu was winning 57% - 22% the first stock, then that assist trophy made it 62-53 in favor of Wario.

That was an awful game though.

 

[All_Usernames_Are_Taken]

SRK should not be deciding the rules.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7JC4E-RHLY

Dude, he has like 0.3 seconds to react. If he had just jumped then the Pikachu would have hit it, most likely, and he would have won.

He had an opportunity and blew it.

Edit: He wasn't even in the middle of a move when it appeared onscreen!

 

[a77]

What I was getting at is that SRK Brawl players are terrible and have no right to decide these things.

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

Well if he's arguing because he wanted item tournaments, he has one.

If he's arguing to get us to play a different game, then why not go to the MLG forums and argue with the Halo players because the halo community is much larger than the smash one. He would have better luck.

 

[All_Usernames_Are_Taken]

You realize Pikachu was winning 57% - 22% the first stock, then that assist trophy made it 62-53 in favor of Wario.

That was an awful game though.

To be fair, though, the Pikachu ran right into the trophy's attacks like 2 or 3 times.

 

[Grunt]

Actually, it's completely in the players' control. What movements you send to a system are completely in your control, and they are what determines where the random seed goes.

That's why it's possible to beat RPGs in 18 minutes: http://tasvideos.org/469M.html

No. A tool assisted speedrun like such uses luck manipulation. this is constantly reverting back to pre-made checkpoints (3rd party BTW) and restarting over and over until the desired outcome is granted. so it's still random, and you still fail.

 

[MiraiGen]

Actually, it's completely in the players' control. What movements you send to a system are completely in your control, and they are what determines where the random seed goes.

That's why it's possible to beat RPGs in 18 minutes: http://tasvideos.org/469M.html

God ****, you post a video from TASvideos, which is Tool Assisted Speedruns, and you compare it to competitive Smash?

Guys, seriously, he's not even a troll. He's incompetent. Doesn't even know what he's saying.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

After reading more of this thread, I repost this.

Go back to SRK. Those ******* over there are about as competent as a sack of ****ing bricks. You'll fit right in.

 

[maelstrom99]

Just let this thread die or get closed. If you don't like how Evo is running their tournament, just don't go and save up that travelling money + entry fee you were gonna spend anyway. Who cares if SRK belittles Smash, Sakurai already did plenty of that already by making this party game, Brawl. If you still enjoy playing with no items and such, just go to some local tournaments and play to your heart's desire. It's kinda stupid feeding a troll who has the combined IQ of a raisin. If people who play with items really think it takes more skill than no items, then who cares? Let the dogs have their bones. Just play the game however you like. The end.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The actual biggest problem is the time which they might fix. The second biggest problem is that 75m is allowed which Ness players will be counter picking all day (if that's an oversight, they really need to fix that). Items are the third biggest problem.

I only have one thing to say about items. Items are not something that can be banned or not. They are a setting. To say tournaments "ban items" is analogous to saying they ban coin battles. No, they do not do coin battles, but the reason is that they were selecting the stock battle setting. Items are actually allowed everywhere; if your character spawns proprietary items such as armor pieces or banana peels, you can use them. If you somehow trigger a pity Final Smash, it's yours to use. The settings are just calibrated such that random item spawns and King Dedede's forward + B never produce them.

 

[MiraiGen]

I think it was always factored into Peach's tier list that she could pull Beamswords and Bobombs.

 

[MechaJesus]

Man it's as simple as this.

Do competitive smash players want to play with items?

The answer is NO. It's not even an argument.

This was good for a laugh.

I also lol'd at All Usernames Are Taken and people arguing over whether he's a troll or not.

Yes he is a troll, and because he got you to argue with him he's a successful troll!

Anyways, all that aside, I'm not a HUGE fan of EVO's rules (2 stock / 3 minutes is not long enough, Ray Gun + Smash Ball should be turned off), but I do like the fact that they're at least trying. EDIT: Forgot, 75m needs to be turned off, the enemies interfere with any strategy that could occur.

Hopefully they'll listen to complaints and modify the beta ruleset into something a little better.

And I still hold my stance (Not that anyone really cares here). Yes, I know there is a 0.001% chance that some freak occurrence will take place where a green shell spawns just as your opponent finishes a smash attack that would miss you but a green shell spawns inbetween you two which flies into you, causing you to lose the tournament. I'll also even agree that the law of averages isn't a blanket cure for this problem, and despite the fact that you two will have roughly equal luck one player might have a bit of an advantage. Still, I think the inclusion of items add an interesting level of depth to the game that is missing from no-item play, which makes it much more interesting and strategic to add certain items than to totally ban them.

And I don't think a certain controlled luck element in a game somehow ruins the competition. Again, look at pro poker players. I saw Daniel Negranu (Pro poker player, I probably misspelled his name) lose $6 million REAL MONEY on TV on a ****ty hand. But he didn't quit; instead he sucked it up, because he knew that he's a good poker player and he will make that money back in the future.

 

[MechaJesus]

The actual biggest problem is the time which they might fix. The second biggest problem is that 75m is allowed which Ness players will be counter picking all day (if that's an oversight, they really need to fix that). Items are the third biggest problem.

I only have one thing to say about items. Items are not something that can be banned or not. They are a setting. To say tournaments "ban items" is analogous to saying they ban coin battles. No, they do not do coin battles, but the reason is that they were selecting the stock battle setting. Items are actually allowed everywhere; if your character spawns proprietary items such as armor pieces or banana peels, you can use them. If you somehow trigger a pity Final Smash, it's yours to use. The settings are just calibrated such that random item spawns and King Dedede's forward + B never produce them.

I like a lot of what you said.

Also, you do have an interesting point. Zamus has her armor pieces, and Peach can still produce bom-ombs even if they're turned off in the items menu. Still, I don't think either character is good enough that it's going to make a huge difference, unless you can somehow hold one of Zamus' armor pieces until the end of the match.

 

[Pikaville]

Surely you must be joking.

 

[Morrigan]

I like a lot of what you said.

Also, you do have an interesting point. Zamus has her armor pieces, and Peach can still produce bom-ombs even if they're turned off in the items menu. Still, I don't think either character is good enough that it's going to make a huge difference, unless you can somehow hold one of Zamus' armor pieces until the end of the match.

You have to be really lucky to pull out a bomb out of Peach's DownB, especially during a 3 minute match. ZSS is better in that aspect.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

these rules are a joke...
i seriously hope no one will identify themselves with this...

comeon...
2 Stock match with 3 minutes...
this will end with a sudden death 50% of the time... sudden death ... hmm.. anything thats more random than sudden death?
items: okay, some items might not be broken or anything, but still, items are a major luck and random factor.. and WTF Finalsmashes???????? finalsmashes = unbalanced
and also... 3 minutes: this will produce ONE smashball... resulting in a player that looses a life if you use a character with a good final smash...
so yeah... go figure
guy that gets the smash ball wins?
i´d love to see those tourneys!

how about we play 1 stock matches with 999% each... i heard you can change the settings this way in brawl, we should definitely make use of it!

 

[Deadandlivin]

Items!

Hahaha, they cant be ****ing serious!
WTF, is this ****!

 

[daytimeninja]

Items?!?! WTF

 

[UltiMario]

I think I'm going to have to get glasses, I'm reading things that should not be there.

 

[Orichalcum]

Is this a joke? I hope so. Tournament rules with 2 stock 3 mins items on.. reminds me of brawl with anyone, oh yeah and custom stages thats cool...

 

[Zelc]

Rules have been updated. best 2/3 3 stock 5 minutes now, and Norfair is unbanned are the differences I think.

Evo Brawl Beta Ruleset Revision 19
These rules are tentative and subject to change at any time.

First game of a match to be played on Smashville. Players can decide to play on any map, if both players agree.
Excessive stalling or abusing terrain to not engage the enemy is prohibited, and can be enforced by a tournament director only. This will result in a loss of the match.
Losing player can pick a new stage or new character, not both.
Winner keeps character (users of Samus/Zamus, Zelda/Shiek, and Pokemon Trainer are currently ALLOWED to change which character/mode they start in even after a win) but must select character/mode before other player has to choose stage/character.
3 Stock, 5 Min timer, 2/3 Games
Items on medium spawn.
Sudden Death will not decide the outcome of the game.
Allowed Items: Banana Peel, Unira, Spring, Mr. Saturn, Green Shell, Smoke Ball, Freezie, Super Scope, Sandbag, Food, Screw Attack, Warp Star, Metal Box, Bunny Hood, Beam Sword, Baseball Bat, Lip's Stick, Star Rod, Hothead, Smash Ball, Ray Gun, Pitfall, Cracker Launcher, Motion-Sensor Bomb, Hammer, Golden Hammer, Bumper, Franklin Badge.
Banned Stages: New Pork City, Hyrule Temple, Warioware, Spear Pillar, Flat Zone 2, Original Mario Brothers, Mushroomy Kingdom.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Also, sudden death will no longer decide the outcome of the game.

 

[Samochan]

It's gonna be fun when the giant fish of doom takes the grand prize.

But yea, SRK lost all the little credibility it still had. GG, you're officially noobs now.

I did crack up for the rulesets though. But still, items and oh god the stages... I still get nightmares from 75mm... DK and the springs... x__x *dies*

At lest they changed it for the better direction... but the stages... *dies again*

 

[metaXzero]

At least SD isn't a deciding factor anymore. ^_^

But how the hell do we still have these items (SB still)?

 

[Meleeruler]

Five minutes is not enough for a three stock match IMO, but whatever. I would go 7-8 minutes personally.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

I really wanna talk to someone who would actually get enjoyment out of these kind of rules. Seriously, no one will cooperate with this.

 

[Nowaytoeatatater]

Don't expect the rules to stop sucking anytime soon.

 

[PozerWolf]

This is quiet possibly the dumbest hate I've ever seen at Evo.

Jeez, and the Smash community wonders why there look down upon?
So childish.

This just concludes that in reality, Smash players don't know anything about fighting games or what makes a game competitive.

Ah, oh well.
Kids will be kids.

 

[Demon Kirby]

^and now you get flamed

 

[Pink Reaper]

This is quiet possibly the dumbest hate I've ever seen at Evo.

Jeez, and the Smash community wonders why there look down upon?
So childish.

This just concludes that in reality, Smash players don't know anything about fighting games or what makes a game competitive.

Ah, oh well.
Kids will be kids.

Ok, this isn't an insult, this is just a request. Name some fighting games that have random items spawns and levels that randomly kill you. Name ONE and I'll go away.

 

[Samochan]

This just concludes that in reality, Smash players don't know anything about fighting games or what makes a game competitive.

So, your conclusion is that SRK knows smash better than us while they don't even play it, and that not banning 75mm and letting donkey kong chuck springs at us that have high knockback is competitive in your eyes? Or random fish eating your stock away? And then they try to forbid us to use stages to stall time when they purposefully enabled such stages? Also, randomly spawning items and other stage hazards?

Yea, I think you just dug your grave with that remark. >_> I'll just wait till Yuna gets here, his response should be enjoyable to read.

And I agree with Pink Reaper on this.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Ok, this isn't an insult, this is just a request. Name some fighting games that have random items spawns and levels that randomly kill you. Name ONE and I'll go away.

Eheh, you might be waiting a while for that name. Looks like Pozer's already logged off...

 

[RDK]

You guys get trolled WAY too easily.

 

[metaXzero]

Awww...I was hoping for some verbal pwnage

Oh well. EVO and SRK are still *****n idiots.

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

Well I can't post on their forums yet, but this is how I see it...

The people I play with(the Atlanta GPC players) are all use to 3 lives, 7 minutes, and the typical 7 neutral maps. Those are the settings we use and that's what we enjoy playing. Those are the settings in all of the local tournaments we've been to. They work. If you were to throw in items and some certain maps, then personally I would not participate. I wouldn't think any of my crew would and thats about 15-20 people. I mean Brawl is bad enough, but to go and do this is just killing it IMO.

 

[SAMaine]

Luckily, Evo doesn't look to our General Boards to get a sense of our community as a whole. Unlike some other people.

Why would anybody honestly judge an entire forum, and the entire forum's userbase, off of a single thread that only contained a minority?

Because hacking a game is synominous with cheating, and if there is one thing big competitive tournaments hate, it's cheating. I will admit that Brawl has its flaws, but I would NEVER play in a tournament that used a hacking device on a game, even if it was to get rid of tripping. The fact that a topic about hacking was not locked as soon as a mod could frowns unfavorably on the mods and thus the board. It also especially hit one of my sore spots considering Brawl is an online game, and hacking ALWAYS kills the online! ALWAYS!

(sighs and looks to have a headache)

But then this isn't the topic for this type of rage. I'm sorry if I'm a bit off-topic.

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

Because hacking a game is synominous with cheating, and if there is one thing big competitive tournaments hate, it's cheating. I will admit that Brawl has its flaws, but I would NEVER play in a tournament that used a hacking device on a game, even if it was to get rid of tripping. The fact that a topic about hacking was not locked as soon as a mod could frowns unfavorably on the mods and thus the board. It also especially hit one of my sore spots considering Brawl is an online game, and hacking ALWAYS kills the online! ALWAYS!

(sighs and looks to have a headache)

But then this isn't the topic for this type of rage. I'm sorry if I'm a bit off-topic.

How is hacking a game to make it better a bad thing? I don't understand that.

A person made a hacked map creator for Starcraft and a map called "Fastest Map Possible" was created. You can't go pro in it, but there is a HUGE community, some leagues for it, and it is very competitive. IMO it made something about SC better, so I have no problem with it. As for something like MAPHACK, that would be frowned upon.