Guide Drastic Improvement

[Divinokage]

Well if you take the sentence without the context that way, of course it'll seem weird.. lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Lack of confidence leads to hesitation or self-implemented mental roadblocks.

You don't believe someone's mental state can impact their performance?

No, I don't. I think the buttons that you press will impact your performance. If you're playing well and you're feeling good, you're feeling good because you're playing well. The goodness of performance is the cause, not the effect.

Having mental blocks is a real thing, but those aren't why you're losing. You lose when you don't play as well as your opponent does. If anything, I would say it's more likely that losing creates those mental blocks. Again, play ability is the cause, not the effect.

Humans are prone to variability in their performance. There's nothing wrong with it and it's natural. But to blame your "confidence" over your ability is definitely a step in the wrong direction to solving the problem.

Don't get me wrong, there's definitely more to it than how I'm making it sound because mentality can cause positive feedback loops or other long-term effects, but I don't want to spread attribution error as misinformation. I would rather portray the issue as 100-0 so that my readers resolve the initial problem.

 

[Divinokage]

Well I dont think you can have one without the other.

 

[Izuhu]

Well if your highly motivated and don't have single doubt in your mind that you could do it then your already walking down a road to becoming a champion. Once you have that motivation and potential everything else falls into place. People become better faster than others not just because their talented but through the amount of work they put in to get where there are. People need to see that you can do ""anything"" if you set your mind to it. And I really mean ANYTHING. Your mind is a powerful thing to waste. Your mind can build YOU or it can destroy YOU. Your mind is your own monster, you gotta tame that ****, and once you tame it. There's nothing you can't do....NOTHING!

 

[Divinokage]

Hehe that's the way, I like that! =D

 

[Theftz22]

No, I don't. I think the buttons that you press will impact your performance. If you're playing well and you're feeling good, you're feeling good because you're playing well. The goodness of performance is the cause, not the effect.

Having mental blocks is a real thing, but those aren't why you're losing. You lose when you don't play as well as your opponent does. If anything, I would say it's more likely that losing creates those mental blocks. Again, play ability is the cause, not the effect.

Humans are prone to variability in their performance. There's nothing wrong with it and it's natural. But to blame your "confidence" over your ability is definitely a step in the wrong direction to solving the problem.

Don't get me wrong, there's definitely more to it than how I'm making it sound because mentality can cause positive feedback loops or other long-term effects, but I don't want to spread attribution error as misinformation. I would rather portray the issue as 100-0 so that my readers resolve the initial problem.

Of course losing a lot can be a cause of mental blocks, but why deny that mental blocks can also be a cause of losing? Those are not mutually exclusive propositions. Of course winning and losing are ultimately determined by what buttons you press at what times, but mental states like nervousness can affect what buttons you press at what times. This would be equivalent to thinking that a mental state like "thinking that your opponent will jump" can affect what buttons you press at what time. The only reason I can see for denying that would be if you are an epiphenomenalist about the mind (or an eliminativist for that matter), but both of those are highly implausible.

 

[Stevo]

the confidence!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODL3MJllhu4#t=8m55s

 

[Deleted member]

Of course losing a lot can be a cause of mental blocks, but why deny that mental blocks can also be a cause of losing?

The only real reason is because it allows you to justify your losses as something other than a difference in ability. As soon as everything because a difference in ability, you can focus on your ability and your win ratio strictly improves. Telling someone to "have a good mindset" is not only ambiguous and vague, even if it's true it's basically impossible to reasonably resolve in a short amount of time. The title of this thread is "Drastic Improvement" and I intend to keep it to that focus.

 

[Theftz22]

Well that's a pragmatic question about what mindset is best to maximize improvement, not a metaphysical question of the truth of the proposition "mental blocks can be a cause of losing".

 

[Deleted member]

i already acknowledge that in my previous post that you also quoted. figured you just wanted me to be more specific. i don't necessarily tell people the truth, i tell them what they need to hear. if you want to get good at smash bros, and quickly, it has to be through the game mechanics. this is not a particularly difficult concept to accept.

either way, i don't post on here for philosophical debates. normally i would agree with the posture that absolute thinking is bad on the whole, but trust me when i say that it is the most effective for accomplishing the goal.

 

[Izuhu]

Hehe that's the way, I like that! =D

lol thank q <3

the confidence!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODL3MJllhu4#t=8m55s

I don't think Vudujin lost confidence its just that he was under pressure and his composure was lost. Happens to everyone.

This is a MvC2 vid, but every time I watch it and I play melee I feel as I can make a comeback no matter how many stocks I'm behind. You should always give your 100% all the way through even if it feels as if all odds are against you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVmc5ZepdVs

Here's a melee vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYnz-CsHmdk

 

[Divinokage]

On my end with that I was confident he was going to WD in and do something and Side-B beats basically all options if Luigi doesn't shield.. even if he shields his position is reset. And then after that hit well I just landed hits and connected them based on what I saw happened.. I mean confidence also allows you to not hesitate when you punish someone.

I do see a lot of people missing reads just because they don't follow through or are hesitant just for that split second needed to get that read... and then if you don't get it, your momentum can likely break or your mind can crumble if you arent careful.

 

[Keblerelf]

The "confidence" you talk about is just an emotion.

Emotions shouldn't be a factor in how well someone performs.

It sounds really motivational and feel-good when you talk about believing in yourself, but in the end that's just what it is, a good feeling. A feeling can disappear.

Being good entails being consistent at something, and emotions are the opposite of that.

If you're playing well and you're feeling good, you're feeling good because you're playing well.

I don't see how hard it is to grasp this. If I know the timing of how to rest someone out of a stand up animation, I'm going to be able to do it regardless of how confident I feel. I'll only have a "bad mindset" and doubt myself if I don't know how to do it in the first place.

How can you learn everything about something when you limit yourself? Someone that doesn't believe he can succeed or do it will never succeed.

That only happens when the guy doesn't know what he's doing. But with enough practice, his perspective will change. His ability increases. The more he learns, the more realizations he will have. The change in his perspective is a result of his progress, not the other way around.

On my end with that I was confident he was going to WD in and do something and Side-B beats basically all options if Luigi doesn't shield.. even if he shields his position is reset.

Look at what you said. You UNDERSTOOD the situation. Your ability allowed you to take advantage.

I do see a lot of people missing reads just because they don't follow through or are hesitant just for that split second needed to get that read... and then if you don't get it, your momentum can likely break or your mind can crumble if you arent careful.
Reply With Quote

How are you so sure that these people hesitated due to lack of consistency rather than lack of confidence?

 

[Izuhu]

Emotions shouldn't be a factor in how well someone performs.

That's not true a person who is extremely nervous while playing has a high chance of choking and messing up than a person who is really confident in his skill. Think about it this way, a person can be a social butterfly, but their can be a situation in his life where the emotion of anxiety hits him preventing him from being "that social butterfly" which is basically a emotion being a factor on how well someone performs. Same thing goes with anger..I know some people who play better when they're pissed off. I for one are one of those people.

The ambiance of an environment can also reflect how you play and the emotions you emit. For example, playing smash with cold hands. A lot of people can't play smash with cold hands, and its considered a legitimate john.

See what I mean

 

[Keblerelf]

That's not true a person who is extremely nervous while playing has a high chance of choking and messing up than a person who is really confident in his skill. Think about it this way, a person can be a social butterfly, but their can be a situation in his life where the emotion of anxiety hits him preventing him from being "that social butterfly" which is basically a emotion being a factor on how well someone performs. Same thing goes with anger..I know some people who play better when they're pissed off. I for one are one of those people.

No.

The ambiance of an environment can also reflect how you play and the emotions you emit. For example, playing smash with cold hands. A lot of people can't play smash with cold hands, and its considered a legitimate john.

That is something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. If you chop off my hands, then yea I won't be able to play as well as I want to.

See what I mean

No.

 

[Divinokage]

The "confidence" you talk about is just an emotion.

Emotions shouldn't be a factor in how well someone performs.

It sounds really motivational and feel-good when you talk about believing in yourself, but in the end that's just what it is, a good feeling. A feeling can disappear.

Being good entails being consistent at something, and emotions are the opposite of that.

What makes you say that? You are constantly influenced by your surroundings no matter what you say or think about a situation.. even if you really don't want to be influenced by something, you still are. It's impossible to play like a robot, we are humans and we are made out of energy.. any thoughts or actions you do has an effect on you. A feeling can indeed disappear but in this particular case it's because you aren't centered enough for your goal.. Speaking from experience, I'm 99% always happy, the reason that is because I'm constantly striving towards what I want to do so that feeling good energy is always there and it drives me forward no matter the trials I face.. That feeling does not disappear because I truly want it... and it's also because I can enjoy many many little things in life too, that helps me almost never get bored. I believe if you don't have that kind of drive then there's no way in hell you'll be able to become someone great because you'll likely doubt yourself or limit yourself in a way where the negative emotions will hold down.

I know players who practice a lot more than me but they still aren't even close to the top level, if practice was the only factor in becoming someone awesome then we'd have godlike beings all around the world. We are much more complicated than that.

I don't see how hard it is to grasp this. If I know the timing of how to rest someone out of a stand up animation, I'm going to be able to do it regardless of how confident I feel. I'll only have a "bad mindset" and doubt myself if I don't know how to do it in the first place.

Being nervous will make you miss a lot easy things, maybe when there's no pressure behind you then of course it's super easy to do whatever you want.. but you are also influenced by your opponent as well, he's sitting beside you.. you are fighting a battle for your tournament life. Again anything that happens to you will make you feel whatever it is, I'm not inside your head. If you didn't know how to do it in the first place then that's on you for not training all possible situations, it has nothing to do with mindset.. you just dont know how to do it.

That only happens when the guy doesn't know what he's doing. But with enough practice, his perspective will change. His ability increases. The more he learns, the more realizations he will have. The change in his perspective is a result of his progress, not the other way around.

That's true but some people train a lot more than others and they still aren't able to be successful, the way the mind works is pretty crazy.. I wouldn't be able to tell you how the mind works for every single human being.

Look at what you said. You UNDERSTOOD the situation. Your ability allowed you to take advantage.

Perhaps but still, I did take a guess and I was confident in that guess... i could've gotten punished for it too.

How are you so sure that these people hesitated due to lack of consistency rather than lack of confidence?

Well it's true that lower skilled player are much slower than top players but I mean even missing simple reads, it could be both either confidence or consistency.

Edit: Instead of dismissing personal experience, Elf, perhaps you should look into it too. Saying no does **** all for argumentation.

 

[Izuhu]

No.

Yes

That is something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. If you chop off my hands, then yea I won't be able to play as well as I want to.

No, its still relevant (w/ the exception of the cold hands part) anyways yeah your environment still reflect your emotions and how well you perform. Another example, a hype crowd going against you. They're are some people I guarantee you that will put like 25% of their focus on the crowd when its suppose to be on the game. Are they giving it their all? No, because 25% of their focus is with the crowd

No.

Oh well

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

i'm revamping the content over the next 2 months. i plan to elicit help from dr peepee, cactuar, and kirbykaze as well, as we all share pretty much the same mentality concerning the game.

it should be up by christmas day. it's a long wait, but it's also a ****ing lot of work and i want it done well.

edit: my current version is full of holes and references to myself for areas to fill in, and it's still 18 pages single-spaced in MS word. it's ****ing long.

so hype

:D

 

[Tee ay eye]

#xmash2013

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

Drastic improvement? Just play Falco.
>pic related, its me

 

[Ryobeat]

This might just be me; but I think a big part is mixups. I don't know(and I feel like other players) don't know how to instinctively mixup what they are doing, so they are predictable.

 

[NightShadow6]

Being random is such a great thing to have, just gotta use it sparingly or doing stupid things can cause a stock. Why not combine all of that into one though? Probably mentioned already but, practicing with a dedication and admitting that you were at fault are all huge things.

All the practice in the world can't help if you don't realize what you're doing wrong.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

It's not necessarily being "random", but being observant of what your opponent is being conditioned to.

As a Sheik, I might do plenty of ftilts and fairs to pressure a person, causing them to instinctively shield in those states. I might get a few hits early, but then they may begin shielding excessively in those situations, expecting a fair or tilt pressure. This is when I feel I can do a fake and empty hop/grab (tomahawk), as a mixup.

From the onset, the tomahawk seems random, but its calculated

 

[Isprayaxe]

Remember to never become satisfied, you should always be earger to learn and improve even if you are the best or think you are.

Also if your friends dont really want to play you try playing teams with them. Me and my 2 friends do this game where its 3 falcons vs one bowser. Its really fun to get crazy combos in this

 

[Divinokage]

It's not necessarily being "random", but being observant of what your opponent is being conditioned to.

As a Sheik, I might do plenty of ftilts and fairs to pressure a person, causing them to instinctively shield in those states. I might get a few hits early, but then they may begin shielding excessively in those situations, expecting a fair or tilt pressure. This is when I feel I can do a fake and empty hop/grab (tomahawk), as a mixup.

From the onset, the tomahawk seems random, but its calculated

It seemed to me you were well conditioned with the punch. I hope you listen to your own advice.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Fear is a factor In this game. Shielding is the main product of fear. That breaks down options and conditioning is gonna dictate how you get punished. That's one of the few mind games that loses its hold on a confidant player. I've seen many vids and matches where a faster character is all the way across the stage and players are still baiting as if they are still being pressured. That is a mind ****.

 

[Doomolish]

I miss this topic. Did anyone saved it? I wanna read it over again.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

Kage $100 MM at evo, where my controller analog stick won't be an issue

 

[RockinRudy]

how do i play with friends and players who are afraid to play with me
begging doesnt work simply asking them doesnèt work, and even trying to moneymatch them doesnt work

Either they suck, there not interested in the game that much anymore. You 4 stock them and they don't have fun. They don't want to play with someone like you who is good.

 

[Deleted member]

I never finished writing this.

That said, I'll repost the unedited version I have saved on my computer. It's notably incomplete, but maybe some public pressure will force me to add to it or revise it at a later date. I've really just lost all motivation to care about smash after Apex, but that could change idk.

everyone stay on my **** to finish this or i probably won't.

 

[FrootLoop]

I don't really like the part about banning stages you want to CP to so your opponent forgets to ban it themselves. It seems like it falls under the category of trying to trick your opponent.

 

[Cactuar]

It's a poor interpretation of the ban rule imo. Bans should not be saying "you cannot pick that stage vs me", but rather "that stage is not legal in this set".

 

[Divinokage]

Kage $100 MM at evo, where my controller analog stick won't be an issue

I suppose I could do it but ill have to see if i have enough to MM that much at evo.

 

[Deleted member]

It's a poor interpretation of the ban rule imo. Bans should not be saying "you cannot pick that stage vs me", but rather "that stage is not legal in this set".

that's something that may have been changed over time, although i'm not sure the wording expresses that.

there's absolutely nothing wrong with tricking the opponent. don't rob yourself of marginal victory.

 

[-ACE-]

Studies show that smashers not suffering from malnutrition and/or vitamin deficiency where able to perform more consecutive multi-shines on average in comparison to the control group "normal smashers". The solution is quite simple. Always eat total raisin bran. This is a legitimate strategy. You will get all of your vitamins, and later, be able to throw your opponent off by passing some aromatic gas due to the bran flakes while he's attempting to edgeguard you (at least I would recommend this, it's not a great time for someone to choke). There's absolutely nothing wrong with tricking the opponent. Don't rob yourself of marginal victory.

 

[ElloEddy]

Drastic improvement? Just play Falco.
>pic related, its me

-__- lol falco is ass

 

[clowsui]

just to let you all know, max is working on "the importance of theory" section

 

[ShrieK1295]

Maybe not too relevant to the discussion going on, but as an aspiring player, I feel like a lot of people at my level limit themselves to emulating what they see better players do. Everyone has habits and go to options, and they are never comprehensive. There's still lots of room to innovate and come up with new tricks in Melee. As a Falcon main, it's been fun watching S2J adding tricks to his gameplay over many years. We can't all be as fast as Hax, so you gotta compensate elsewhere.

edit: to add to my point, just notice that the top players are coming up with new stuff all the time, whether it's improved angles/illusions from spacies, Zhu using uair first hit to combo, Mango using falcon's utilt, etc. There's no reason why these advances have to come from top players.

 

[BTmoney]

Maybe not too relevant to the discussion going on, but as an aspiring player, I feel like a lot of people at my level limit themselves to emulating what they see better players do. Everyone has habits and go to options, and they are never comprehensive. There's still lots of room to innovate and come up with new tricks in Melee. As a Falcon main, it's been fun watching S2J adding tricks to his gameplay over many years. We can't all be as fast as Hax, so you gotta compensate elsewhere.

edit: to add to my point, just notice that the top players are coming up with new stuff all the time, whether it's improved angles/illusions from spacies, Zhu using uair first hit to combo, Mango using falcon's utilt, etc. There's no reason why these advances have to come from top players.

Don't have the mentality that you can't emulate (movement/tech) or surpass a player though! If you want to move faster but can't then you know what to work on next.

But everything else is entirely true.

 

[FrootLoop]

You gotta learn the rules before you can see exceptions. Of course question everything and blind following is bad, but coming up with new stuff before you have learned how to accurately judge quality seems like a slow way to go.