RaptorTEC
Smash Champion
Vinnie knows the mu. As long as he's on point he shouldn't ever lose to Yoshi. Although, he could do better by just playing campier
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How familiar exactly? Any background experience?Vinnie knows the mu. As long as he's on point he shouldn't ever lose to Yoshi. Although, he could do better by just playing campier
He's part of my crew and was the top player in Hawaii before moving to Cali to get training. Easily one of the sheiks to watch out for. I haven't played him in a while, but I agree that yoshi has possibility of winning. Was it recorded by any chance?Well it'll be interesting to watch. Fought Void and lost 0-2 though it was very close both games (honestly I should've won game 2 but I flubbed it at the end).
Based on playing him, he was obviously leagues better than any Sheik I've played before but I think I demonstrated that it's still possible to win. If I hadn't choked I definitely would've had game 2 at a minimum.
I didn't think the matchup was all that bad for Yoshi either, until I saw this:I don't believe Yoshi loses to MK yet. From what I've seen, Yoshis are just playing the mu wrong/really unsafe. I'd like to play a good MK to be sure.
I can't understand either, to be honest.So you may have noticed ZeRo has put out another tier list.
Interestingly enough, after previously saying Yoshi is the "last tournament viable character", he's absent from this tier list that focuses on what he believes are tournament viable characters to solo main. He specifically mentions he just doesn't have results, which is 100% correct. He also mentions Luigi doesn't have results though which is false, Luigi is definitely still getting results after his nerfs.
Anyway here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3w9pqd/hey_rsmashbros_zero_here_with_a_tier_list_i_made/
Not sure if anyone's seen this but I actually beat the Diddy I lost to in Losers finals earlier in the bracket:This MU is infinitely worse than any MU I could possibly conceive Yoshi as having beforehand. With the lack of real SDI in this game, I don't really see much that can be done about that. Our best bet would be to examine what percents we no longer get death combo'd at and then play in a way that completely removes us from the setups. Unfortunately, that might not be possible (looks like grab sets it up, as do attacks, so...).
If MK becomes popular he might be what blocks our viability, not Sheik. I feel like a mediocre Sheik is much easier than a mediocre MK, if those combos are as simple as they look...
I advise everyone to watch Nikes in Loser's Finals after that set. It really does restore faith in Yoshi's ability to tackle Diddy, at least. Very impressive stuff.
Oh, hey Nikes Wasn't aware you posted here. Hope you're okay with me linking that video earlier, I know it was incredibly frustrating for you at the time. It's a pretty good example of why that MU is super bad for Yoshi though.Not sure if anyone's seen this but I actually beat the Diddy I lost to in Losers finals earlier in the bracket:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8OTNYVSWeE
There were so many times where I'd have a big percent lead but he'd bring it back. Still probably worth a look imo.
Shoutouts to Brawl teaching me item control which is huge in any MU against Diddy, if only we could still DJC with it like back then.
There were huge swings in the LF set too. But the play really seemed to indicate that Diddy isn't a bad MU for us. At the very least, he doesn't keep us from solo-viability.Not sure if anyone's seen this but I actually beat the Diddy I lost to in Losers finals earlier in the bracket:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8OTNYVSWeE
There were so many times where I'd have a big percent lead but he'd bring it back. Still probably worth a look imo.
Shoutouts to Brawl teaching me item control which is huge in any MU against Diddy, if only we could still DJC with it like back then.
Rosa's definitely a problem, and I think ZSS and Pikachu both pose problems too. Also, from my observations, Yoshi really seems to struggle against zone-heavy characters like Olimar and Villager, and to a lesser extent Toon Link. Lucario poses a huge risk to him too given that he often struggles landing kill moves.There were huge swings in the LF set too. But the play really seemed to indicate that Diddy isn't a bad MU for us. At the very least, he doesn't keep us from solo-viability.
I'd say MK and Sheik are the only problems at this point. Maybe Rosy, if Raptor's struggles are anything to go by. I can't think of anything else.
Unfortunately, these are pretty popular characters.
MK getting popular since Leo took out Mr.R lolThis MU is infinitely worse than any MU I could possibly conceive Yoshi as having beforehand. With the lack of real SDI in this game, I don't really see much that can be done about that. Our best bet would be to examine what percents we no longer get death combo'd at and then play in a way that completely removes us from the setups. Unfortunately, that might not be possible (looks like grab sets it up, as do attacks, so...).
If MK becomes popular he might be what blocks our viability, not Sheik. I feel like a mediocre Sheik is much easier than a mediocre MK, if those combos are as simple as they look...
He played the mu terribly and extremely unsafe /: We can play really lame against MK he doesn't have any reliable way to approach us.I don't believe Yoshi is solo viable, no (as should be clear from my "Yoshi isn't high tier" thread).
I actually secondary Yoshi in Smash 4, so he's not my main...but one thing stopping me from making him my main focus is that I don't believe he's a viable solo character. So I keep him as a secondary to try to cover Samus' bad matchups. I say secondary but to be honest he's probably about on par with my Samus because I play him reasonably often.
RaptorTEC
I didn't think the matchup was all that bad for Yoshi either, until I saw this:
http://www.twitch.tv/safgc/v/27888768?t=02h07m52s
Winner's Finals from SXC (Australian major) a few weekends ago. It should be noted that these two players are from the same region in Australia and play each other quite regularly. What do you think after seeing that video? Fair enough he got punished for some unsafe down b's in game 1 but there wasn't much he could do in game 2 and 3. One string was started after split second shield drop, and another was started off a grab from Meta Knight that seemed to out prioritise a command grab from Yoshi. It wasn't really the type of set you wanted to see in Winner's Finals of a major. Yoshi just seems to be combo food for Meta Knight's up air, up b strings. The string was starting on as little as 25% and was KOing Yoshi on as little at 50% after the final up b hit.
Vids/elaboration? MK is fast enough to get around our lame stuff, in my opinion, and almost all of his incidental hits lead into the death chain (Dash Attack, Grab).He played the mu terribly and extremely unsafe /: We can play really lame against MK he doesn't have any reliable way to approach us.
He can also start the combo string of death off a grab to down throw though, so it's not just dash attack you need to worry about.Sounds kinda dumb but I've been playing this match up a lot lately and the best strategy i've managed to find is to focus on avoiding being dash attacked in the entire match.
Pretty sure he lost his jump at some point in the offstage exchange.And why did you kill yourself on the last game
There's wall vs Jband.
Think he's 0-3 against Jband's MK.
Also guys, the match in that video after he beats his sheik starts at 4:10 and the match ends a minute and twenty (20) seconds later.
C'mon meta knight...
Pretty much everything links into MK's upb, even DA at mid and high % links to a Upb or full hop upb. YA JUST CAN'T STOP THIS BEAST :^)
Anyways you have a seriously bad downb habit though. And why did you kill yourself on the last game, and guys I found the solution to winning the MU.
Let's do the ol' deltacod tactic and camp forever.
Imo, I'm either off or on.It's honestly hard to gauge Denti. People wanna say he's a top player still cause he kinda was in the brawl days, but at the same time he's still losing to everyone in his town. Just yesterday he lost to yet another local player named Jayson who played fox, before he's lost to lucario a DK mook/pika, for one of his famous rages RunCT etc.
Can we really call him a top player if he's losing to lesser known players in his own city, or even when other lower leveled players come down to compete? Sure he does good sometimes when regionals happen, but that usually tends to boil down to how many kryptonites can he avoid to get that placing.
But no, he doesn't play it right even when he's camping.
His Yoshi play doesn't work either as an example cause he implements too much rolls or grabs due to spamming it with his other characters along with many other problems. Despite attempting to play the character cause word on the street back then Yoshi was top 5 once diddy nerfs happened, he still doesn't fully understand the character so he doesn't actually know the MU even if he goes against Yoshi players. Don't think DFW has any Yoshi mains he can practice against to improve.
The difference between Sheik/Diddy and the other 3 is the strength of the punishes. We can contest the other 3 in neutral better, but their punishes hurt worse, with their possible lead ins to an early death. It makes the matchup harder to evaluate, for sure. Is our neutral good enough to overcome the punishes they get? I'm not sure.If you can fight things like Mario / Peach in the neutral there shouldn't be an issue with MK/ZSS/Falcon. The only 2 that are hard are Sheik/Diddy.
I have no problem with Diddy (do agree on Sheik though), but Lucas/Ness are my biggest problems right now.Hmm, I guess I forgot but we played in Winner's Finals? For some reason I thought I got put in Loser's before fighting him and then only met him in Grands. My mistake. Regardless I think people are too doom/gloom in the Yoshi forums about matchups. Like I find my 2 easiest ones to be Captain Falcon and ZSS yet everyone else says they're huge pains or even losing for us.
If you can fight things like Mario / Peach in the neutral there shouldn't be an issue with MK/ZSS/Falcon. The only 2 that are hard are Sheik/Diddy.