Does Mii Swordfighter really deserve his own tier?

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Sorry I hope this isn't in the wrong spot. I thought of posting it in the specific character forums for Swordfighter or the tier list forum but I didn't for a few reasons.

1) I didn't want character bias from Mii Swordfighter mains
2) This is talking about the character relative to all other characters so not just in isolation
3) I didn't want to distract from the current tier voting

So I get that not a lot of people like this character, and even that it's probably the worst character in the game and deserves the slot at the bottom of the bottom rung. But is Mii Swordfighter really so comparably bad that he/she deserves to have his own tier? What exactly makes him THAT MUCH worse than everybody else in the game that he seemingly has no chance of being used competitively? I guess the question applies to Brawl Ganondorf as well but don't want to derail the thread.

 

[Xermo]

I'm sure it's a recovery thing. Swordfighter can only recover from low with up-b or far with side-b. Side-b also gets trumped if it hits someone, which there's plenty of time given how long it needs to charge to get distance.

Of course, one day a good Swordfighter will actually learn the character enough to show it isn't completely garbage.

 

[CrimsonSmasher]

I'm sure it's a recovery thing. Swordfighter can only recover from low with up-b or far with side-b. Side-b also gets trumped if it hits someone, which there's plenty of time given how long it needs to charge to get distance.

Of course, one day a good Swordfighter will actually learn the character enough to show it isn't completely garbage.

I honestly don't get the recovery complaint because Swordfighter is far from the only character that can only pull off recoveries through Up-B and Side-B.
BTW: You forgot to mention Down-B3 that is essentially Swordfighter's version of Falcon Punch.

 

[Xermo]

I honestly don't get the recovery complaint because Swordfighter is far from the only character that can only pull off recoveries through Up-B and Side-B.
BTW: You forgot to mention Down-B3 that is essentially Swordfighter's version of Falcon Punch.

I'm discussing it from a 1-1-1-1 standpoint. Customs are only now starting to become popular.
It isn't just that he's limited in recovery, it's that it's so linear. Up-B1 is a "Final Cutter" recovery and Side-B1 is a chargeable, horizontally traveling spin that's easily punishable whether he's going for the ledge or the stage, plus it doesn't ledge cancel and he'll die attempting this. Mac is similar in recovery, but even then, at least he has a strong ground game and a walljump to back up his viability.

 

[CrimsonSmasher]

I'm discussing it from a 1-1-1-1 standpoint. Customs are only now starting to become popular.
It isn't just that he's limited in recovery, it's that it's so linear. Up-B1 is a "Final Cutter" recovery and Side-B1 is a chargeable, horizontally traveling spin that's easily punishable whether he's going for the ledge or the stage, plus it doesn't ledge cancel and he'll die attempting this. Mac is similar in recovery, but even then, at least he has a strong ground game and a walljump to back up his viability.

Ah, I see. Then yeah, I agree with you because Swordfighter 1111 is FAR from what Swordfighter has to offer.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Is 1111 the baseline for the current tiers list? No wonder lol. Hopefully when customs get legalized it will get better, and hopefully my area will allow for miis of any size and not just guest miis

 

[Unknownkid]

It is the combination of having moves that have long startup with long endlag and weak damage. You have to play him defensively or reaction type of character (like Ganon, Zelda) but he lacks their damage to make the rewards worth it. I see him as a very weak fundamental type of character (Falco, Kirby). He is not bad in terms of specials especially since you use customs to cover some of the weakness. I will admit 1111 is a terrible combination but what are you going to do.

Does he deserve his own tier? I think not. That is people over-exaggerating his worth. He just requires more commitment to his moves and "setups" than his counter parts. Regardless, he is still low tier. Maybe at the bottom of low tier.

But Swordfighter is my secondary so perhaps I am bias.

 

[Bob Bills]

Mii Swordfighter is really bad (tier-wise), but I fail to see why he's worse than Wii Fit Trainer, Zelda, and Palutena (with default specials).

 

[Darklink401]

Mii Swordfighter has ways to rack up damage incredibly fast. (2 dthrow to uairs can get an opponent from 0% to 40%)

He has confirmed kill setups (like jab cancels to up B) and a great uair and dair.

I'd say he's at least high low tier. In fact I'm determined to make this character work. Also any mii fighter set can be used with customs off, so 1111 isnt necessarily all there is to it.

He can definitely work with the rolling side B, that while not good for the neutral game, is great for recovery, and sweetspots the ledge (also has a tricky curve to it)

 

[Drarky]

It's kinda hard for me to see SF being lower than other characters like Zelda or Ike, he just feels a little bit more decent than that.

Maaaybe without customs (because I feel like Hero's Spin is needed with this guy), but even then Ike and Zelda also suffer from no custom enviroment.

 

[Berserker.]

First off, no. He doesn't deserve his own tier. I doubt any character in the game deserves their own tier list. The only one that manages to get that was Diddy Kong back in 1.04 but now that he's been nerfed, he's not as dominant (still really really good though). I won't deny that he (BKF/Sword fighter) isn't a good character. He really isn't good tbh

If I were you guys though, I would worry less about his or her "tier list" position. Focus more on developing his or her metagame than he or she is now if you really care about the character that much