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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
I mean, it's a good life choice on his part. Frankly, I think Shroomed got too cocky placing well at Nationals and ****** his region uncontested for a year. Started playing secondaries to "prove a point" and ****, got lazy, and everyone else is catching up and now his Doc can't hang anymore.

Ya gotta stay on them sticks if you wanna be the best.





but yeah Doc sucks
 

Shroomed

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
4,793
Location
Santa Cruz
Yeah, that's exactly what happened Max. I've just been winning so long in Norcal that I became content and stopped actually trying to improve and it came back to bite me in the ***.

I get more joy out of this game from playing Marth though, which is the reason I'm switching. Not simply because Doc sucks. However, Doc sucking might be why he's less fun than Marth.
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
marth is really fun. i approve any decisions to switch based on that..marth vs sheik is really hard though..i recommend learning ICs for it since they seem to have the best vs sheik matchup in the game.

marth really has to maximize punishment when playing spacies though...so time off from the game tends to hit my vs spacies game the hardest
 

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
He'll still use him, and at some point relatively soon I'm going to start entering tournies again.
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Yeah, that's exactly what happened Max. I've just been winning so long in Norcal that I became content and stopped actually trying to improve and it came back to bite me in the ***.

I get more joy out of this game from playing Marth though, which is the reason I'm switching. Not simply because Doc sucks. However, Doc sucking might be why he's less fun than Marth.
Is it because of zhu?

:phone:
 

Rainbow

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
124
Location
Lawrenceville, New Jersey
So I've been dabbling a lot with Doc lately and have found myself training with him more than Pika. The problem is if my two best characters are Doc and Pika, well, they don't really balance each other's weaknesses lol.
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
5,086
Location
Mass
So I've been dabbling a lot with Doc lately and have found myself training with him more than Pika. The problem is if my two best characters are Doc and Pika, well, they don't really balance each other's weaknesses lol.
do you go to lawrencville?
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I didn't even see the GFs set yet. I just heard it was 3-0. I saw WFs, and the marth was looking pretty good too.

It is on my list of things to watch though.

:phone:
 

Shroomed

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
4,793
Location
Santa Cruz
I could've done it with Marth I know it! I just choked it away.

I'm still torn between going full Marth or sticking with Doc. I'll probably wind up sticking with Doc.
 

onionchowder

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
346
Location
Chicago / San Diego
How do you deal with C.Falcon approaching and zoning Doc out with Nairs? I've had a bit of success with random full-hop Nairs and capes, but they seem really punishable. Is there crouch-cancel stuff you can do or something?
 

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
Just go Doc, Shroomed

How do you deal with C.Falcon approaching and zoning Doc out with Nairs? I've had a bit of success with random full-hop Nairs and capes, but they seem really punishable. Is there crouch-cancel stuff you can do or something?
I haven't research crouch-cancel stuff yet. I stopped having time to do research for this game sometime around late November 2011.

Doc's FH nairs and capes are easily punished.
So only to those moves if you're really confident about what Falcon is gonna do.
If you're not sure what to expect, just shield approach.
 

onionchowder

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
346
Location
Chicago / San Diego
Shield approach? like, just run up and shield? I don't think Doc can punish well-spaced Nairs OoS.

There are two types of Nairs that I'm having trouble with. One is just approaching Nairs, which I probably should be CCing and doing something, but I find that I usually get jabbed before I can do anything (probably just need to be faster). The other is stationary short-hop Nairs to zone me out, like when I'm at the edge and Falcon is doing sh Nairs in the center, just out of Doc's range. Sometimes I'm able to trade Ftilts or Utilts, but the trade doesn't seem worth it, especially when I get hit off the stage again.
 

shadrach kabango

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
1,414
Location
SoCal
I could've done it with Marth I know it! I just choked it away.

I'm still torn between going full Marth or sticking with Doc. I'll probably wind up sticking with Doc.
Play it by ear.

Your dilemma may even be a false dichotomy. For example you could just cut out the rest of your secondaries -- Sheik, Falcon, whoever else you might play when unmotivated/unchallenged -- and go Doc/Marth all the time. The best of both worlds.

I think once you've compartmentalized a significant amount of skill, using two characters is fine, maybe even preferable. But three-plus is when the risk/reward ratio becomes imba towards risk.
 

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
Shield approach? like, just run up and shield? I don't think Doc can punish well-spaced Nairs OoS.

There are two types of Nairs that I'm having trouble with. One is just approaching Nairs, which I probably should be CCing and doing something, but I find that I usually get jabbed before I can do anything (probably just need to be faster). The other is stationary short-hop Nairs to zone me out, like when I'm at the edge and Falcon is doing sh Nairs in the center, just out of Doc's range. Sometimes I'm able to trade Ftilts or Utilts, but the trade doesn't seem worth it, especially when I get hit off the stage again.
Yes, run up and shield.
The purpose of shield approach is to find out what Falcon is actually gonna do. I'd rather shield approach than to throw out risky FH n-airs unless I'm confident Falcon isn't gonna punish me for it.

Now, if we're assuming Falcon is definitely gonna n-air, then yes FH something or time an up-tilt or whatever. If Falcon is gonna "space" n-airs, I just cape those.

And if you're at the edge and Falcon is doing the wall of SH n-airs, try grabbing the ledge (temporary invinciblity) and the instantly ledgehop -> waveland ->f-tilt/uptilt.
If you time the input well enough, you should still be invincible by the time the uptilt or f-tilt comes out.

Not sure if this helps you at all.
I still don't have an answer for crouch canceling anything yet.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Play it by ear.

Your dilemma may even be a false dichotomy. For example you could just cut out the rest of your secondaries -- Sheik, Falcon, whoever else you might play when unmotivated/unchallenged -- and go Doc/Marth all the time. The best of both worlds.

I think once you've compartmentalized a significant amount of skill, using two characters is fine, maybe even preferable. But three-plus is when the risk/reward ratio becomes imba towards risk.
I think using two characters is actually beneficial for a lot of people. Chaddd made a really good post about it and how it relates to counterpicking and stuff like that. I don't really feel like dredging through posts for it though.
 

shadrach kabango

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
1,414
Location
SoCal
I think using two characters is actually beneficial for a lot of people. Chaddd made a really good post about it and how it relates to counterpicking and stuff like that. I don't really feel like dredging through posts for it though.
Yeah, but if you're at a wall, ime messing around with two-plus characters merely prolongs it.
 

onionchowder

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
346
Location
Chicago / San Diego
I think using two characters is actually beneficial for a lot of people. Chaddd made a really good post about it and how it relates to counterpicking and stuff like that. I don't really feel like dredging through posts for it though.
I'm curious; what is the gist of his reasoning? I was always under the impression that playing multiple characters usually caused each individual character to have less flexible playstyles.
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
his reasoning probably revolves around ganon being ***, fox being better, and not having to be stuck to either of them so nobody can CP you on both stage and character.
 

SmashMac

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
1,388
Location
Naples, FL.
Doc is mad good. About to add him to my rotation.
I used to main Falco and started using Doc. as a secondary. Then, I mained him, and got better at the game.

I do use multiple characters in some cases like Fox. It's good to have a variety of characters for given situations. It also helps in the matchup experience since you will know the matchup from both perspectives of play.
 

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
Slox's problem is he plays too many characters. He should just stick to one, and probably not Falcon or Doc.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
no need to switch mains IMO just practice secondaries vs SCRUBS to get the matchup/ perspective experience

unless your char SUX
 
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