Do you want Apex to be 5 or 4 stocks?

[Nintendude]

My Yoshi wants less variance and more time to outplay a b tier Kirby player. I want/need those extra stocks to overcome the god awful match up.

How about an A tier Kirby player though? Someone right at your level in terms of pure skill? Then you absolutely would want less stocks.

 

[SheerMadness]

How about an A tier Kirby player though? Someone right at your level in terms of pure skill? Then you absolutely would want less stocks.

Nope, that's not always true either. Take me vs Kefit. I'm really good vs Pikachu and he sucks vs Yoshi. Were both A tier'ish but my extreme advantage in match up experience means that less variance is in my favor in that match up too.

It's actually that way with most A tier players vs Yoshi. I have wayyyy more experience vs Pika/Kirby than they do vs Yoshi. Guaranteed. I want longer matches vs almost all of my peers.

 

[bloodpeach]

SK I wasn't including you in the pro-variance camp cuz you were being reasonable.

 

[Nintendude]

You'd rather Kefit have more stocks to figure out the matchup? Less stocks means you can leverage your matchup experience more.

 

[SheerMadness]

I'm not worried about someone figuring out the Yoshi match up in 5 stocks lol. It just doesn't happen. A lot of people can never seem to figure it out.

My 9 years of playing vs Pika/Kirby every week beats out whatever they might learn about the match up in a couple stocks. Less variance is definitely in my favor IMO.

 

[clubbadubba]

Every player has certain players they want more stocks vs and others they want less stocks vs. Those individual wants shouldn't have anything to do with the decision as a community. The rule-set shouldn't give a **** how many stocks ness players want vs kirby/pika, or how many stocks pika/kirby players want vs ness. Its about settling on a stock count that is an acceptable mix of low variance, high excitement, and low time. 4 stock fits that criteria on the higher excitement and shorter time levels, 5 stock fits it on the lower variance level. Neither is bad.

 

[Nintendude]

Yeah, you're right. I just like arguing with SheerSadness because he's dum

 

[SheerMadness]

Wow two personal shots from Nintendude!

He seems pretty mad about this poll. Probably because he's going to look like an even bigger asshole if he continues with his dictator TO plan after saying he cares about the community's opinion. You know, since a large majority clearly prefers 5 stock thus far.

 

[Nintendude]

Your shots back are nothing but MereBadness!

 

[Zenyore]

again

#5ordie

 

[thegreginator]

Guys 5 stocks vs. 4 isn't THAT big of a deal. If there is only one ruleset change that's gonna happen let's go all in for banning Hyrule.

Or Kirby.

 

[clubbadubba]

yo mother **** kirby lets do it

 

[Olikus]

If we ban pika on DL, Im allright with The japanese ruleset these eastcoasters trying to get so badly.

 

[The Star King]

Every player has certain players they want more stocks vs and others they want less stocks vs. Those individual wants shouldn't have anything to do with the decision as a community. The rule-set shouldn't give a **** how many stocks ness players want vs kirby/pika, or how many stocks pika/kirby players want vs ness. Its about settling on a stock count that is an acceptable mix of low variance, high excitement, and low time. 4 stock fits that criteria on the higher excitement and shorter time levels, 5 stock fits it on the lower variance level. Neither is bad.

Hm, the ruleset should ignore personal preference in accordance to player/character match-up... but not "excitement"? Interesting.

How exciting each stock count is is subjective. That shouldn't be how rulesets are created.

You're right about not taking personal match-up preference into account, mind you.

 

[mixa]

avg. time length of 10 top 8 kanto / kansai tournies (87 games)

5 of them were 5 stocks
5 of them were 4 stocks

5 stocks ones: avg = 4:07
4 stocks ones: avg = 3:49

by using debatable math, and artificially making them all 4 or 5 stocks:

all 4 stocks: avg = 3:34
all 5 stocks: avg = 4:38

reminder: US DL avg time 5 stocks is 3:36

another reminder: all those ~90 games were top 8. so it's reasonable to expect higher figures by default.

 

[clubbadubba]

Hm, the ruleset should ignore personal preference in accordance to player/character match-up... but not "excitement"? Interesting.

How exciting each stock count is is subjective. That shouldn't be how rulesets are created.

You're right about not taking personal match-up preference into account, mind you.

I think making the game more viewable is a plus for community growth, which I think should be a secondary goal of the rule-set, yes. But yea I suppose you're right hype vs stock count is subjective so wutevs.

 

[DMoogle]

Exactly. Me being the higher skilled player I want less variance (despite playing the inferior character). Because longer games are going to favor me.

OK, that's a good point.

 

[SheerMadness]

At least someone gets my point. =]

 

[Olikus]

Well I dont think we need to discuss this much more. Its pretty clear what The community wants. Looking forward to 5 stocks matches at Apex 2014.